Ridiculous "gameplay"

**GFX707** · 10-14-2004, 00:40

OK, so here I am as the Greek Cities in about 220BC sieging rome with 4 armies of 1000-1500 (1 on each side) with 1 led by a family member (and another army of ~1500 led by my faction leader closeby) with the city completely surrounded. The 4 armies are all sieging and building siege engines and all by now have at least 2 rams, 2 sap points, 2 towers etc. versus large stone walls.

Then I get the message that the defenders are sallying and they attack one of the stacks without the family member (notice how they ALWAYS do this, even when there are 2 stacks, so you have to watch the AI controlled general suicide charge them and you can't choose which army to control) and I go to the battle setup screen....my army is there, and the Senate army led by their 5 star faction leader of about 1000 troops, and under reinforcements are the other 2 and the one controlled by my family member. Reasonable enough....

So the battle starts and there I am with 1 army (and a 13 minute time limit to take the city or the siege is broken off) and what do I see? A message pops up "Reinforcements delayed?"

Delayed? All 3 other armies that were SURROUNDING THE CITY? They somehow forgot that today we are having a battle? Why aren't they on the map with their siege engines? Where are they? They are sieging the city! How can all 3 be delayed????

So I start fighting with my captain whatever and I lose narrowly to the 5-star general, before any reinforcements show up (with about 5 minutes left I think) and my army routs, and it plays the sad music bla bla bla. Exit to campaign map.

What do I see?

ALL FOUR OF MY ARMIES are retreating back through Italy! Why???? They are all sieging the damn city and outnumber the defender more than 3 to 1 after that battle and they all retreat down to the bottom of Italy! 3 of them didn't see combat (although they damn well should have!!!!) and now all of a sudden they are running away and breaking the siege?

Things like that are just stupid!!!! CA, PLEASE address this!

**GFX707** · 10-14-2004, 11:16

What's even MORE stupid is that every time I reload it I still get the "reinforcements delayed" thing when the other 3 armies should be on the other 3 map edges! No sign of my AI reinforcements....

and then I tried to autocalc and the stats were something like I killed 200 (with my 4 armies of 1000) and lost 2500!

and the solution was even more stupid! I pressed esc and quit as soon as the battle started and got a "draw" and the siege is still standing even though it said I will lose if I quit now....so I just negated their attack by quitting?

someone really needs to look at this....

**Colovion** · 10-14-2004, 11:20

Yeah the whole Siege/Withdraw/Reinforcement system needs to be tweaked a bit. At first I thought you were going to say that you lost the other three armies altogether because they broke a siege and withdrew. It's a good thing that didn't happen - but that's still bloody annoying that they decided to retreat from the siege in general.

**GFX707** · 10-14-2004, 11:39

I don't see why I can't choose which army to control. There is nothing more infuriating than controlling captain generic no-name while the AI controls your 9-star faction leader and proceeds to charge a thousand-strong enemy force with his lone bodyguard unit while the rest of his army walks ponderously across the map a mile behind, hurtling into the front of a phalanx and dying.

**Haido** · 10-14-2004, 12:46

Now isn't sallying forth an attack move made by them and the battletimer works against them. So you had 15 minutes to setup an effective defense?

**GFX707** · 10-14-2004, 13:03

If I don't kill them all and take the city I believe the siege is broken.....happened once before but I could be wrong....

**The_Emperor** · 10-14-2004, 13:18

Originally Posted by GFX707

If I don't kill them all and take the city I believe the siege is broken.....happened once before but I could be wrong....

The battle timer works for you if your besieger when the defenders sally forth, because it is the besieged who are the attackers for that battle by attemting to break the siege. The Besieged have to drive off your army or kill them to gain a victory.

I think if the time limit expires and your army is still standing on the field it counts as a draw and the siege continues...

So taking the city in the event of a sally is not neccessary, but the chaos of it is a great opportunity to do so and will give you a clear victory.

At any rate I have seen the AI attack the weaker armies led by captains a couple of times. This is done to deny you control of your good troops for the duration of the battle. This is why I often make sure groups of large armies that siege a city like Rome are led by someone I wouldn't miss, and that each stack I move in I do not mind controlling myself in the case of a battle.

Otherwise the solution is to bring in only one full army stack for that siege.

**GFX707** · 10-14-2004, 14:01

Originally Posted by The_Emperor

This is done to deny you control of your good troops for the duration of the battle.

That's just stupid and frustrating in my opinion, ESPECIALLY due to the ridiculous suicide charging AI reinforcement generals we have in the game right now.

**Lord Ovaat** · 10-14-2004, 15:53

Otherwise the solution is to bring in only one full army stack for that siege.

True, true. I always just take ONE stack into a seige. If I have more troops nearby, I will post them directly behind my main stack. That way, the AI can't get to them without going through me first. And they can't pass through my zone of control. Works well. I also avoid having my stacks anywhere near allied stacks. Don't want to get dragged into a conflict I can't control. Which is one of the reasons I now leave ALL of my boats in port, unless they are transporting troops or blockading an enemy port. They seldom get attacked, and are a slight expense.

**The_Emperor** · 10-14-2004, 16:02

That's just stupid and frustrating in my opinion, ESPECIALLY due to the ridiculous suicide charging AI reinforcement generals we have in the game right now

it is a valid tactic, and one that the player can exploit against the AI as well. if your army faces up against two armies and has the option of attacking the weaker one or the stronger one, what would you do?

If you attack the weaker one the AI has to bring on the stronger larger army as reinforcements, this gives you the chance to destroy the smaller force before they arrive as the larger one will have to trudge across the map to get to you.

As for "ridiculous suicide charging AI reinforcement generals", I have only ever fought one battle where the AI charged my general in ahead of my army and got him killed, so it is hardly conclusive. Just last night I had a battle where my AI force managed to get to the enemy before I could, and I was the one who was forced to come in late like reinforcements while the AI defeated the enemy on a hill...

If you don't like the AI controlling your generals then you shouldn't give it the opportunity to do so.

**GFX707** · 10-14-2004, 16:27

Originally Posted by The_Emperor

As for "ridiculous suicide charging AI reinforcement generals", I have only ever fought one battle where the AI charged my general in ahead of my army and got him killed, so it is hardly conclusive. Just last night I had a battle where my AI force managed to get to the enemy before I could, and I was the one who was forced to come in late like reinforcements while the AI defeated the enemy on a hill...

You can't have played much then.

If you don't like the AI controlling your generals then you shouldn't give it the opportunity to do so.

I wouldn't if I could freaking help it!

**TinCow** · 10-14-2004, 16:40

Why would you ever beseige with 4 armies in the first place? Sure the system doesn't work perfectly, but you're just asking to be screwed with a setup like that. You would never be able to go through more than 1 full stack of reinforcements in a battle anyway, so why bring the other 2 and risk this scenario?

**GFX707** · 10-14-2004, 16:43

Just because it was Rome that I was besieging and I wanted be like ha ha **** you Romans this is what your warmongering has brought you!!!! this was the end of a long and bitter war you see. It felt good. Also silly me thought that the defenders wouldn't dare to sally against such a huge besieging army....I didn't know the game treated it as four separate armies conducting four separate sieges and that the AI could attack whichever quarter it wanted at leisure....

still, it should give me the option to control whichever army I want.