Distance to Capital Public Order penalties

**therother** · 10-15-2004, 10:31

Okay, new data:

Some rules of thumb:

There is no penalty within 15 squares of your capital.
The penalty is always 80% over 86 squares away.
The penalty increases by ~1% per square.
So between 15-85 squares, take the number of squares, subtract 10, and round to the nearest 5. So 24 squares would be 24-10=14, so the penalty is 15%. There seems to a small aberration near the transitions though.

There is an excellent tool from d0t for working out the optimum position for your capital in terms of this penalty: here, as well as a advanced version by Ravenous Bugblatter Beast, which allows you to set the maximum unrest that distance from capital is permitted to cause in each city when calculating the optimal capital.

Alphabetical list of the coordinates of all settlements:

Original post:

Originally Posted by therother

Well, this will be of very little practical use to all but the most fastidious planner. This is the variation of % Public Order penalty with the straight-line distance from the capital.

If anyone knows of a way to find the positions of the cities, I'd be grateful, as that'd allow me to easily get more points. It looks linear, but it could be a curve. The problem is that I have to find the local resources that match the city, compare the position with known landmarks (i.e. the Wonders) and then adjust for the position of the city. Which is extremely annoying! I would like to get data for all the cities at one capital position, then move it to various places and compare. But that's going to take a long time with the above method. I've done it with a few, and it works reasonably well.

Anyway, barring anyone discovering the (x,y) coordinates of all the cities, or indeed finds a more practical use for this info, this is all I'm doing on the subject!

**Oaty** · 10-15-2004, 16:01

Nice graph

Do roads/paved/highways make any difference in the distance to capital penalty. As it seems that way for me because Corduba had a highway going all the way to Rome without the max 80 percent penalty but up north the penalties seemed to get higher quicker

**Soulflame** · 10-15-2004, 17:38

Check out this file for some exact settlement coordinates. I myself am busy with my unit guide (got Egypt and Seleucid added... still a lot to go). But I knew this file was here... GL!

~~:\Rome - Total War\Data\world\template.txt

**Soulflame** · 10-15-2004, 22:21

Originally Posted by therother

That file jusy seems to be a template for creating your own campaign map. In their version of the imperial campaign, the x,y coords are missing. I assume they might be hard-coded.

However zarkis, a JP, has informed me of the show_cursorstat command for RomeSell. Big thanks to him. May he be given Membership as soon as possible!

Hmm I thought they mentioned some cities in that file, maybe they are just not real then?

Well, at least you got the relation anyway. Good job once again. We should compile all the info in one PDF; all the info about the Settlement scroll we have discovered so far. (And maybe later put that into the al ecompassing user created Rome Manual, an extension/replacement to the paper manual...)
Do you think this is a good idea?

**therother** · 10-15-2004, 22:37

Originally Posted by Soulflame

Hmm I thought they mentioned some cities in that file, maybe they are just not real then?

Well, at least you got the relation anyway. Good job once again. We should compile all the info in one PDF; all the info about the Settlement scroll we have discovered so far. (And maybe later put that into the al ecompassing user created Rome Manual, an extension/replacement to the paper manual...)
Do you think this is a good idea?

I do. That's what I'm doing all this for! Although it is taking a lot longer than I anticipated, largely because I'm busy with other work, but also because things are more complex than expected.

If anyone whats to use my data for their own guide, they are more than welcome.

**therother** · 10-15-2004, 19:52

Originally Posted by oaty

Do roads/paved/highways make any difference in the distance to capital penalty. As it seems that way for me because Corduba had a highway going all the way to Rome without the max 80 percent penalty but up north the penalties seemed to get higher quicker

I honestly don't know. A junior patron has given me a way to find out grid positions, so I'll investigate later.

**therother** · 10-15-2004, 20:33

Originally Posted by oaty

Do roads/paved/highways make any difference in the distance to capital penalty. As it seems that way for me because Corduba had a highway going all the way to Rome without the max 80 percent penalty but up north the penalties seemed to get higher quicker

It doesn't appear so, or at least the difference is marginal if they do make a difference. But most of my cities have highways. I tried a couple of new territories with just roads, but they all conformed. Isalnds too.

Try it for yourself though. Use the RomeShell show_cursorstat command to find out the positions of your two cites. Use trig to find the distance between them. Then use the equation on the graph to see if it matches the PO penalty (x is distance, y is calculated penalty). OR you could send the data to me!

PS I've updated the graph with the corrected positions. I got a surprising number of them absolutely spot on, which shocked me no end!

**Tamur** · 10-15-2004, 20:46

Speaking of straight-line distance... that's a pretty straight line there. Nice to see a tiny spec of the campaign game that is excruciatingly clear!

**therother** · 10-15-2004, 22:43

Originally Posted by Tamur

Nice to see a tiny spec of the campaign game that is excruciatingly clear!

Is that a mild rebuke?

**therother** · 10-17-2004, 01:22

It's been brought to my attention in the Corruption thread that many people don't know what a square (or tile) is, and indeed what size they are.

I've tried to help out with this post.

**RedKnight** · 10-15-2004, 21:13

Luv your work, therother!

You might take a look to see if the outliers (farther from the regression line) have bad roads (above the line) or good roads (below the line) to your capitol, as a rough indication of whether roads might matter. It's entirely possible since they obviously have a decent pathing engine built and ready for querying... but whether they do, who knows.

By the same token, I don't suppose whether it's by sea (or not) matters?

But, assuming you've got both good and bad roads, and overseas cities, encompassed by your data, the first pass indicates there are only small effects, if any. I wonder what's the deal (if any) with that one particular high lier at ~distance 33?

Also by chance could you give us a "real world" touchstone or two as to, how many squares = how much of the map. For example, from Rome to [what] is "50% disorder" away? Or, what's the length of Italy? (or something) Perhaps I should just break out RomeShell.

I'm sure you've noticed that your equation is a fair approximation of, 1 disorder per game square, minus a "home" area of 10 squares (or 12 or something).

Your work definitely has a practical use, because with the precise basis of the distance penalty known, it also becomes more viable (or not) to worry about moving one's capitol to a better position, from time to time. This wasn't possible prior to knowing the mechanism with precision - if e.g. it was found that seas made for a very short distance, you'd always want to be on coast. But if it's a simple crow-flies, as your first pass suggests, we know we should use simple geocentering. IF we want to bother to be that precise.

Are there any reasons not to move the capitol at will, anyone? Besides the ones related to, where you might want your governors showing up (remote, dangerous, and/or no library).

**therother** · 10-15-2004, 22:30