Diplomacy..a bit pointless?

[lancelot]

Im having no luck with diplomacy...as greek cities, I cant get any romans to agree to anything!!

Once SPQR has decided you're not in the good books, it seems like game over in diplomacy terms. Any tips?

[therother]

Im having no luck with diplomacy...as greek cities, I cant get any romans to agree to anything!!

Once SPQR has decided you're not in the good books, it seems like game over in diplomacy terms. Any tips?

Tamur has very kindly written an excellent guide to diplomacy. It's in one of the stickied threads in the Colosseum. I highly recommend that you read it.

[Colovion]

I've read that thread and it is very helpful up to a point. It still seems as if the computer still doesn't think long term or thing like a real person (not that I blame them, they are an AI faction..) but it seems to me that diplomacy is like this:

Lots of options to offer/demand but the AI diplomacy seems to still react the same way with the on/off switch - still very clumsy to figure out what they're thinking or how they COULD think these things such as "Stopping the fighting? That's a joke! We will not rest until every one of you is dead" Meanwhile they have one province with half a stack and you have three stacks waiting to invade. You'd think they would say "oh yes, please! Let us trade with you!" But it's always the same thing - even when your 7 Influence Diplomat is talking with a 0 Influence person....

Lots of possibilities - but it doesn't seem like it comes out right in the game...

[The_Emperor]

I once managed to persuade the Numidians to give me Libya in exhcange for a few bits of gold...

But like everything diplomacy only works when you offer the AI something huge, for it to even consider it. often it requires massive amounts of cash to bribe them off or something.

Really diplomacy isn't very good, all alliances get broken by the AI without consideration when it judges your doing too well, so all alliances and agreements are pointless. Also when coupled with the protectorate bug where the protectorate gets cash from you, there isn't much of an incentive to do it.

Still every once in a while you can get that peace treaty from the enemy, and demand a massive amount of cash tribute...

[Ktonos]

I keep telling ya ...and telling ya...

Any game of the total war series would have been 50% better with a diplomacy module.

There is almost no diplomacy in this game. I love it but I would be in love with it if the AI diplomacy was decent.

[Excalibur Bane]

I remember giving the Gauls 50,000 Denarii for a ceasefire when I was playing Julii. They accepted but then broke the ceasefire the next turn and attacked one of my cities. Rather stupid IMO. A ceasefire should be set in stone, not allowing it to be broken for X amount of turns once it is agreed to. It would make diplomacy a bit more meaningful.

Or in a page from the Civ book, when someone breaks an alliance, all their units get tossed out of your territory.

[Quietus]

Diplomatic options do shut down at some point. For example, Britons and Germans were in a war. I offered the Britons to attack Germania for one lump sum of denari. They said they can't "trust" me. I offered them the same attack for anything they want (just to test). I still got the same response.That option is basically dead.

I asked for a ceasefire with Numidia, via Senate mission. They have one province left in Siwa. They demand 4 provinces and thousands worth of denari . Asked them again later, they add that "accept or we will attack". Basically, be ripped off for no reason at all.

So far the only option that is consistently useful (exploitable) is selling map information.

@Excalibur. I'm thinking about "ceasefire" if you withdraw your army to Province X. Or agree only to a "ceasefire" if the enemy disbands their army X (for monetary considerations etc of course).

[Magraev]

I've had some fun with the diplomacy in the game. In my latest game as the Seleucids i had a lot of money and used some of that to buy the greek province in asia minor (they were about to lose it to Pontus anyway). Later on I saw brutii had Athens and Corinth, so I invaded, kept Athens and gave Corinth to the greeks. I haven't been betrayed by the greeks yet, and I'll be very sad if I am.

I'm also funding any nation at war with rome (Mostly Numidia until I killed all the Scipio family in Capua) by giving gifts or buying their useless map information.

It's really cheesy that you can sell your map info to other factions again and again. Some have been abusing this silly option, instead of just playing on a lower level of difficulty as they should. This should be changed.

[Doug-Thompson]

I've had nothing but a good experience with the diplomacy. The Seleucids just broke an alliance that lasted for decades while I crushed the Egyptians.

[TimDogg]

I think the AI diplomacy should focus more on building longlasting relationships with other AI controlled parties. That way the Gauls could tell the Germans to attack those Romans if they got pesky. I don't think AI is too bad, some of the barbarians would rather die then join up with Romans, so telling the Romans to piss off is actually not ridiculous, even if they were halfcrushed to death.

I do think it is too easy to bribe other armies. As soon as there is no familymember in an army you can bribe them cheap as chips, I disable my enemies by buying them instead of fighting them

[Saracen]

The AI overall is "dumb as a stump" when it comes to diplomacy. You are allies with a faction and they are getting pounded. You offer to go in and attack those that are beating on them but you need military access. The typical answer, "no way"! The diplomacy module is useless in that respect. It needs MAJOR work!

[lancelot]

I remember giving the Gauls 50,000 Denarii for a ceasefire when I was playing Julii. They accepted but then broke the ceasefire the next turn and attacked one of my cities. Rather stupid IMO. A ceasefire should be set in stone, not allowing it to be broken for X amount of turns once it is agreed to. It would make diplomacy a bit more meaningful.

This is exactly what Im talkin about. Why bother with diplomacy at all if it is sooo useless. I just finished a julii camp with virtually no diplomatic action whatsoever.

A trustworthy/un-trustworthy rating, number of turns in treaty e,ement should definately be implemented.

Oi CA, you listening?

[Tamur]

Emm... what game are you lot playing?

I remember giving the Gauls 50,000 Denarii for a ceasefire when I was playing Julii. They accepted but then broke the ceasefire the next turn and attacked one of my cities. Rather stupid IMO.

If you have to pay the Gauls 50.000 for a ceasefire, then you ought to expect them to invade the next turn. If you have to pay over 15k for any ceasefire, then they're simply fleecing you in the hope that they can do it again.

There are some things that could be changed and added to --- feedback to the player being one of them --- but to anyone who has delved into it, the dimplomacy engine is a solid machine.

[Doug-Thompson]

Emm... what game are you lot playing?



If you have to pay the Gauls 50.000 for a ceasefire, then you ought to expect them to invade the next turn. If you have to pay over 15k for any ceasefire, then they're simply fleecing you in the hope that they can do it again.

There are some things that could be changed and added to --- feedback to the player being one of them --- but to anyone who has delved into it, the dimplomacy engine is a solid machine.

Exactly. $50K bought quite an army too.

None of the factions can or should be trusted. They are all liars and backstabbers -- which is pretty accurate. So what's the purpose of diplomacy? To make a heck of a deal that turn, if you can.

[Turbo]

The problem with getting the Romans to ally is that there are 4 factions you need to deal with that have a permanent alliance with eachother. Odds are that as Rome you will be at war with just about everyone and vice versa.

[Colovion]

I keep telling ya ...and telling ya...

Any game of the total war series would have been 50% better with a diplomacy module.

There is almost no diplomacy in this game. I love it but I would be in love with it if the AI diplomacy was decent.

Same here. It would be like Crystal Meth to me if the diplomacy was even decent - as it is it's more like alcohol.

[Doug-Thompson]

Hmmm. Somebody want to define: decent?

[Colovion]

Not hollow.

I guess it's hard to say what decent is because some people think that the present AI diplomacy works for them really well. The model is there but the AI doesn't work logically with it. I still feel like diplomacy is still like MTW at the core but it now has some fancy garnishes around it.

[Tamur]

hehehehe Doug... that apparently is the problem in this thread. I suppose I may have a definition of decent that includes 'appears to be annoyingly inconsistent at times'.

At times like that, I just assume that I'm being dumb, not the game's engine, and I need to do more digging to figure out what's going on.

[Claudius the God]

no matter what faction i start with, i manage to earn money quickly from my neighbouring factions by offering an alliance and trade rights and demanding at least 2000 dunarii in return. They almost always agree. i did this as the Britons with the germans, the spanish, the julii, SPQR, Scipii and Brutii, and for a very short period of time the gauls before we went to war.
i earned a hell of a lot of money doing this