What about the Germans?

**DisruptorX** · 10-18-2004, 05:01

Any unit attacking phalanxes head on tends to be crushed. Also, Triarii and other spear units use their spears as swords, so the natural advantage of the spear is wasted.

**Ashitaka-san** · 10-18-2004, 05:32

Interesting discussion here... I would think that any type of swordsmen (Hastati or Principes) would whip up on spearmen even if they are in a phalanx formation. However, I have not tried this myself so I would not know (I am currently playing as Scipii and don't face the Germans yet).
From what you all are saying, this is not the case.
How about using velites against them first? After this, distract them with a hastati or town watch with a frontal assault while coming around back with horses/principes/triarii. Or, even better, get many Cavalry Auxilia to just harass them to no end. Then use other units to finish them off.
Just some suggestions.

**Magraev** · 10-18-2004, 07:22

The big edge is, that while it's suicide to attack a spear-wall from the front they are SLOW and vulnerable to missiles and rear attacks.

You can skirmish with these guys, and finally get some use out of those velites and your pilas. Archers are great too. After that initial weakening wheel some equites around their flanks and kill-kill.

**Raxxman** · 10-18-2004, 12:36

I find that the German Spearband is somewhat broken. Head on they destroy all, That's an okay dokey. However Attack them from behind and they turn the spears around in a sweeping circle that flattens your front line...

Also I have to surround the spear warbands with 3 units to gain a good victory, The guys at the back are being engaged by the spear mean, but they're still holding the spears, backwards, never knew the but of a spear was that effective :P

Bottom line is Horsies eat phalanxes for breakfast, so use them, as your infantry will have to grind it out, and that's costly, even for Cohorts.

**Red Harvest** · 10-18-2004, 16:09

I just started a German campaign. Those spear warband units are available right away to Germania. They are quite good, but pricey for a base level unit.

The phalanx is strong in frontal, but it is very vulnerable on the flanks. Plus cav can break the formation too easily. I had three units abreast in phalanx with no extra gap, and watched as the enemy general's heavy cav unit shot right between two of them (other units hit the wall at about the same time and started melee.)

The "suicide daimyo" was killed by my general backing the line, but one of the phalanx units routed because it had been "flanked" by this frontal attack...

I've been buying any cav I can get and will start building some soon. Combining cav support on the wings with these phalanx units looks like the key for Germania.

Phalanx should defeat Hastati and Principes in head on. Head on the swordsmen will be facing 3 or 4 spear points per man, that is not a fun proposition. Phalanx formations present a formidable obstacle frontally. They should not take many casualties that way--until they get disordered or rout. The main advantage of the Roman system was its flexibility. One unit could "hold" a phalanx in place while another could work onto its flank. Any breaks in the line could be rapidly exploited by the legions, while the phalanx units could not do the same (too slow to turn and march). Plus the phalanx was stuck in formation, could not be relieved easily, and would tire while the Principes replaced the tired Hastati--and the Triarii were there in case they were needed if the Principes wore down.

That's my take on it anyway.

**moksha** · 10-18-2004, 23:49

Red H your post makes a lot of sense to me, and the Romans would have an advantage up real close with short swords (if they could get that close in first place), rushing in when phalanx disordered by ground/missiles.
I really like the way the formations can be fluid in this game, not just rigid boxes.