What about the Germans?

[DisruptorX]

wow, you know your history!
you could write a history book of bare memory better then those we have at school! (chosen subjects of course)

ewww....lets not even go there. In history textbooks you can see where they have to politically correct, and its rather painful reading.

[phoule]

I really enjoyed playing as the Germans. They were a real economic challenge. The spear warband does kick ass, but the Germans already have a popluation growth problem and are rather poor, so a unit of 122 men costing 500 denari and 200 upkeep, keeps them as a scarce unit in the start. I'd highly recommned playing as the Germans they have some cool units and pose a good challenge.

[element]

Thanks for all the good historical info guys. This is really informative. Its nice to know that the "barbarian" tribes really werent as barbarian as we think they were. I guess movies portray them as such because it appeals to the greater public.

[Ptah]

Many textbooks are frankly much too "professional" for casual readers, but still during the last few decades many historians came up with great ideas in viewing the history of the 'barbarians'. Rather than the classic(and biased) equation of "civilization vs barabarism", historians are now looking at the 'barbarians' as just another form - a radically different form - of social formation that act under different rules and mentalities than the 'civilized' ones.

I think its a good thing. After all, the 'barbaroi' outlasted the Romans :)

An interesting view, is the argument that the modern concept of "freedom" came from the Germans or Gauls, rather than Greece or Rome. "The free people of the lands" is an inspiring expression, which you can also see some authors requoting them in their material, for instance, the "Lord of the Rings" by Tolkein, as in ie.) "the free people of Middle Earth". The nuance this expression holds is that while bound by common fate,(or plagued by poverty or wars), all of the people belonging to a certain land are essentially free in their existance.

While the German or Gaulish society had a strict hiearchy, the difference in social status was more akin to a classification depending on the social duties one holds in that community. A warrior and a peasant are two very different class of people, but they were equally important in German societies. The concept that the warrior is "higher" than the peasant, was a very weak one in Germania, if such a thing ever existed.

Compared to that, the Roman/Greek hierarchies were also based upon the differences in economical status. A "citizen" was a person with a certain econimical basis, who could serve in the military. Since they were rich enough to arm themselves, and served in the military, in the Roman/Greek society it was very natural way of thinking that the "citizen" was a much higher being than the mere "peasant". The citizen has more money, so he can do more duties, so he has more rights. A peasant has no money, so he can't do any duties, so he doesn't have as much rights. In German or Gaulish societies it was very different. A warrior class would usually have political leadership, but the social rights a peasant bears, was suprisingly higher than the peasants in Rome or Greece.

In the end, the 4th and 5th centuries, its not surprising it was the populace that gave up on Rome - a country which could no more protect them. "Barbaric", poverty stricken, and "strange" as they may be, but still, under German or Frank rule, the peasants were treated better!

It's interesting stuff to think about.

[Thrudvang]

People are only 'barbarians' depending on who's telling you about them, in this case Rome talking about the Germans kicking their ass. They dont want to amit they are better, so they just call them blood crazy barbaric peoples.

Like the English did with the Vikings, even though the Vikings were probably a ton more civilized than the English.

[aw89]

ewww....lets not even go there. In history textbooks you can see where they have to politically correct, and its rather painful reading.

i know, specially when it comes to ww1 and ww2, they even blame ww1 on the germans, which is crazy! and ww2, they don't even say that they had so big money problems (caused by the french, british and the us) and just say that "all germans where nazi's" not saying it was forced to join the army or work for it in some way! it ticks me off!