Quote Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
I fouund a way of training my sies up to 12 subterfuge really easily, maybe its an exploit...

As one of the romans factions, get your spy into Rome and leave him there for 3-4 years. Voila hes out as 12 subt. spy.
- i think you just had a nice run of luck with traits and retinue. before i attacked rome i plopped 2 spies into it for at least 3 or 4 years, and while they gained a few points of subterfuge (i believe 10 is max for any stat), they didn't come close to 10. i've noticed that spies seem to have a chance every year of gaining a +trait or picking up a retinue. cities seem especially good places for picking up things like monkeys, dancers and courtesans.

Quote Originally Posted by oaty
Not sure but I think maybe spies do'nt have 100 percent chance of detedting a spy especially when the enemy spy has a high subterfuge, is this correct?
- from what i've seen yes. one city in north africa i was planning to take. sent a lvl 3 or 4 spy down there and he had less than a 20% chance of spying on the city. normally a spy of that level easily gets 100% chance. After I took city, 4 scipii spies popped out, each of them lvl 2-5. I've also seen my spies get kicked out of a city at the beginning of my turn (you hear the gate close sound and you see your spy moved out). Based on those experiences against the AI, i'd say spies are not 100% protection.