Historical mods and kill rates

[Empedocles]

Althoug I should admit the kill ratios are impressive and not historical accurate I believe it’s not CA mistake. At least in the numbers of people involved.
Example: Many historians believe that Julius Caesar kill and enslave as much as one million gauls/germans/other nations enemies! If we would be accurate that would mean (supposing a number of 100 men per unit) 10000 different units which would lead as to nearly 520 full-stack armies (it was 19 o 16 units an army can hold?) in the map!! Not the entire map, but only a portion! (let’s say Gaul and Germany!!!)
How would a historical accurate game work with such big armies moving around?
And which machine can afford 80000 people getting killed a t the same time?

But I completely agree that the percent of deads after a battle and the complete destruction of the majority of the armies that suffer a defeat is a matter to be solved by you… the almighty mooders!!!

Diego, from Argentina

PS: there were many battles where the whole army was killed: Stalingrad, any other modern day pocket, any siege where the defeated army was slaughtered after battle, thermoplylie (don’t know how to spell it, but I will say that Spartans wished to die in that place, so of course it will mean 100% of casualties)

[King Yngvar]

I believe Cannae also can be added to the list of slaughters...

[Meneldil]

Empedocles, as Aymar already said, the whole greek army wasn't slaughtered at Thermopylae.
And no army was killed at Stalingrad. The soviets managed to defend the ruins of the city, and the germans were captured (though many of them died after the battle), not exterminated.

[dj jones]

I think the best option would be to increase the 'heal rates' for units.

Also, when the computer AI routs, you immediately get the END BATTLE screen. If the player continues, he can easily decimate the routed armies.

Maybe we could increase the speed of routing troops so that they cant be caught so easily. Combining this with increased heal rates should give survivors a pretty decent increase in troops surviving

[willboy]

An article by P.Krenz (Journal of Hellenic studies) analysed relative winner/loser caualties in 20 odd battles between the Period between Plataea and Leuctra. The average is 5% for the winners and 14% for the losers. These are for hoplite/hoplite battles, i.e. where there is a distinct lack of cavalry.

I am not sure, but didn't an ancient army (depending on time period, type, level of organisation etc) often disperse after a defeat anyway, and I am sure that often even wining armies were too exhausted to continue.(I suppose the likes of Alexander and Caesar were able to keep armies in the field for long periods).

I suppose you could address the problem at the strategic level and build in some variables for leaders, or even playable factions along the lines of "battle survivability". At the battle level you would have to remove the ability to carry on the slaughter until the end then calculate additional casualties based on some other variable such as the proportion of cavalry etc.

Still you have the problem of balance within the game because such rules would benefit "organised armies"....wouldn't they?

[Danest]

Its the cavalry who are causing the massive casualty losses. That is, the unrealistic numbers of cavalry available. In reality, cavalry were the smallest fraction of the total force in most armies (a few cultures being an exception, but then when those cultures won, they REALLY won). Caesar mentions the gauls as having something like 240,000 footmen and around 2000 cavalry! Imagine twin armies like that facing off. Guaranteed, 2000 cavalry couldn't exterminate the other army entirely when it routed.

So, make the numbers of cavalry more realistic, and the problem is fixed - no more exterminated armies (assuming they're smart enough to run away before being exterminated).

[Cesare diBorja]

Quite interesting I think in Darthmod is that some units will hold off your forces while the rest get away. Darthformations 8.0 reflect good insight into formations, their uses and survivability. I was amazed when a unit of Carthaginian Sacred Band stood behind and held off my infantry and cavalry for the rest of the army to get away. Delaying actions are key to an armies survivability and a useful tactic when it's your butt on the line. Up your tactical skills, personally, and the game will comply. I have had some astounding battles. Wonderful skirmishes. As for sieges, WOW! See, even in history, if you do little to command your force, you get little result and may lose all. But, if you heed the lessons of history, you will find the game will try harder to beat you. Forcing you to fight harder. The real fun happens then.

Cheers,

Il Duce diRomagna