Research: Using the Vercingetorix .CAS tool

[hoggy]

I thought it might be worth starting a new topic on this subject. I'm not getting as much time as I would like to explore this tool but so far in tests I've been able to scale existing parts of models (but not the whole models as the skeleton won't change size). I've also managed to add new polygons to an existing model.
Has anyone tried creating a model from scratch?
Has anyone tried to manipulate the skeleton or create a new one?
UV changes?

[Ypoknons]

WhiteWolf has being doing some modelling over at TWC... I haven't seen any in game pics but he has an elven ranger model that looks scratch and is planning to put it in... so yeah.

[Vercingetorix]

Everything is possible as long as you don't change the skeleton. I've seen a few units made from scratch at the twc and the one Ceryx made I think was from scratch.

[hoggy]

Would be good to be able to do large units (trolls etc) but currently we are confined to the existing skeletons. Is it possible to scale these or create new ones from scratch? I've done a few tests but not got scaling working yet.

[Vercingetorix]

Almost all the animals have a "scale" factor, I would think adjusting this would make the unit larger.

[Plantagenet]

Hey Vercingetorix, I'd just like to say thanks for the tools you've provided (cas plugin, pak extractor, etc.).

[JeromeGrasdyke]

Would be good to be able to do large units (trolls etc) but currently we are confined to the existing skeletons. Is it possible to scale these or create new ones from scratch? I've done a few tests but not got scaling working yet.

It is possible to scale them. However the skeleton and model need to match, in terms of size; otherwise you get strange distorted creatures wandering the battlefield. Have a look at the Yubtseb elephants (oliphaunts) for an example of how scaling works in both descr_skeleton.txt and descr_model_battle.txt.

[hoggy]

Cheers guys, I'll look into scaling when I get a chance. Got the exporter working and my first units in game. Top stuff Vercingetorix. A couple of tips for people creating new units

- In Rendering/Environment put your ambient up to white to give a more accurate representation of texture brightness.
- Make sure you have the latest version of the exporter (I didn't and spent many hours trying to work out why my model didn't export properly )

[hoggy]

Just been having a look at scaling units and I'm a bit stuck. I've created a new skeleton by copying an existing one in decr_skeleton.txt and giving it a scale command of 4.0. Then I've assigned that skeleton to a unit in descr_models_battle.txt and given that unit a scale value of 4.0 also and the game CTDs.
Also tried just scaling fs_dagger in decr_skeleton.txt and then scaling all units which use this skeleton but it crashes on entering the game. I looked at the oliphant .cas model and it's no larger than other elephants so it must all occur in text files.

Are there any other files that might need to be editted when creating a new skeleton?

[Taamati]

Thanks Jerome, but I've tried changing the values in the skeleton.txt but nothing changes, I don't get the warping that you mentioned.

If I change it in the Model_battle.txt the model scales so that works. It's just the values in the skeleton.txt that don't work. Any help would be awesome.

Also Vercingetorix when will we be able to export our own skeletons?

[Vercingetorix]

Version 0.5 which I released a few days ago alows for new animation.

[Thoros of Myr]

Version 0.5 which I released a few days ago alows for new animation.

[Taamati]

ok just wondering

"Version 0.5 which I released a few days ago alows for new animation"

is a skeleton type just a set of animations or is it heirachy information for the animations?

[Taamati]

Ok I just tested my theory on why the scale on the skeletons isn't working. I removed the scale line from the oliphaunts then loaded them up too see what they looked like. They we're exactly the same, when hey should have looked like crazy blobs of mesh. I think there's been a mistake in the functionality of the txt file where scaling is concerned.

Do you think you guys could fix that in the next patch Jerome? It'd allow so much more freedom in these mods.

[Vercingetorix]

Even if you delete the descr_skeleton.txt file the game will load. The the same thing happened with the descr_sounds* which we can get around by deleting data\packs\events.dat. Not the same with animations.

Jerome could you tell us if there is a way to have new animations without touching data\animations\pack.dat? Also what does adding "-util:animdb" option to a shortcut actually do, the utility will complain if the animations are not extracted from pack.dat but if they are will CTD. Writing a repacker wouldn't be to hard but if you could kindly shed some light that would be much appreciated :)

[Taamati]

it's all a bit quite here at the moment

[SwordsMaster]

Guys, do you know why I might be not able to open texture files with the 3ds max7?

[hoggy]

I think we hit a bit of a dead end with scaling and exporting new skeletons/animations. I'm hoping CA or Vercingetorix will find a solution at some point.

Swordmaster how do you mean 'open' a texture in max? have you set the path to your texture in the material editor?

[SwordsMaster]

yup, but it gives an error message, something like incompatible types sort of thing.

[hoggy]

hmm, at a bit of a loss. You're using tgas or dds' right? Are you working on an existing RTW model you've imported or is it a completely new one?

[Silver Rusher]

I personally think it is better to start from scratch using only the skeleton. The bodies are hard to edit, it's easier to just make a new one. (right?)

[SwordsMaster]

hmm, at a bit of a loss. You're using tgas or dds' right? Are you working on an existing RTW model you've imported or is it a completely new one?

dds on existing models, I just wanted to play around with them, with little changes for veterans, to make them look veteranier :P

[Taamati]

goto the nvidia web site and look for the dds plugin for max. That could be your problem.

As for the whole scaling thing, I think they accidently forgot to link the skeletons.txt file with the input in the game and methinks most of this stuff is still hard coded.

The only thing I'm not sure is why when you add another skeleton type to the list it doesn't allow you to start the game

[Vercingetorix]

Well I've started on adding new aniamtions/skeletons. Somehow I feel the "util:animdb" will be enabled eventually but in the mean time...

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index...howtopic=15970

[Vercingetorix]

You can now import items



http://www.twcenter.net/downloads/db/?mod=141

[hoggy]

!! fantastic stuff Vercingetorix! There has to be some kind of modding award for outstanding achievement, you should definitely get it.

[Taamati]

I haven't yet had a chance to look into it but can you give us an example of items?

[hoggy]

in Data\packs\DATA\ITEMS\ are all the buildings used for battle mode. City walls, towers etc. They were in item format so inaccessible but the new version means we can open and edit them. Top news for mods like Sengonku where large japanese forts can be built.

[Taamati]

nice