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Thread: Blue Lotus: Total War
Hoggy the spearmen look awesome but I have to say I never noticed how good the Samurai in that pic look. There armor looks real in a sense. and as for the improving over time I dont know I think they are all awesome
cheers for the responses guys,
Emporer Eric - a release won't be for quite a while yet (months), there's still alot to do besides the units and map to get the campaign working.
Dragoon - Animation is something I want to change but it will depend on time. Ideally I would change everything but it's just not possible. I might try and talk to the Sengonku mod people about some kind of work swap to use their anims maybe. still not decided.
Ferocious I - good idea, I'm going to look into the skies but I think they're linked to climate.
binsquared - twin swords again is a big animation problem. Demonarchangel suggested twin swords for the chinese guard unit and I'm going to test that to see how it looks.
Sicilian - If you check page one I try to update the army lists as I get stuff done.
many thanks guys I'm off doing family stuff for a week or two. Have a top Christmas and New Year.
Emporer Eric - a release won't be for quite a while yet (months), there's still alot to do besides the units and map to get the campaign working.
Dragoon - Animation is something I want to change but it will depend on time. Ideally I would change everything but it's just not possible. I might try and talk to the Sengonku mod people about some kind of work swap to use their anims maybe. still not decided.
Ferocious I - good idea, I'm going to look into the skies but I think they're linked to climate.
binsquared - twin swords again is a big animation problem. Demonarchangel suggested twin swords for the chinese guard unit and I'm going to test that to see how it looks.
Sicilian - If you check page one I try to update the army lists as I get stuff done.
many thanks guys I'm off doing family stuff for a week or two. Have a top Christmas and New Year.
hoggy merry christmas and happy New Year. I have question in the Blue Lotus mod do the AI get better, or same as it is from the rome total war? I hope you improve the AI, beacuse AI from the original rome total war is really bad. how old are you and what kind the job you have beacuse you are really good?
thank you for making this mod.
thank you for making this mod.
Merry CHRISTmas
Good job!!
This mod is fantastic!
Only a question...
Camels in China or Japan?
And one idea...
Do you can make elephants, camels and evil horses more... dead or zombies? Maybe without flesh in some parts, with bones at sight.
Anyway, i wait for this mod with impatience!!
Thanks for your work!
This mod is fantastic!
Only a question...
Camels in China or Japan?
And one idea...
Do you can make elephants, camels and evil horses more... dead or zombies? Maybe without flesh in some parts, with bones at sight.
Anyway, i wait for this mod with impatience!!
Thanks for your work!
The camels are part of the demon force, so it's alright if they aren't native to Japan or China. And although they weren't native to China, historically the Chinese loved to import exotic animals to stock the Emperor's gardens, there are texts that suggest that they even had Zebras and Giraffes.
Originally Posted by :
Camels in China or Japan?
Camels in China or Japan?
China has bactrian camels i believe. They fit in the game pretty well.
Back again. Hope you all had a good Christmas. As Dragoon says, the camels are part of the Demon force although I intend there to be a unit of camel cavalry for the Chinese armies too (they are also going to have a unit of leopard handlers).
Here are two more ‘Chinese’ units from the list, the imperial guard (like the heavy spears but with two swords and plumes) and the Tibetan Infantry with their peacock crests:
Here are two more ‘Chinese’ units from the list, the imperial guard (like the heavy spears but with two swords and plumes) and the Tibetan Infantry with their peacock crests:
that shit is crazy!!!!!!!
Oh yeah, a Mongol faction for the future would be some crazier shit!!! 
Ok, I've been thinking over Christmas and the next full faction after the chinese is to be the Indian faction. Here is their army list. Currently titled the Rajpur I could do with some good faction title ideas and unit ideas if you can think of any good ones.
Indian Kingdom:
Infantry
Peasant Infantry (loin cloth, buckler and scimitar)
Rajpur Infantry (ornate turban scimitar and shield)
Rajpur Spears (ornate turban spear and shield)
Gurkha Infantry (powerful close combat troops)
Babur Infantry (ornate gold helmet early cone style)
Babur archers (ornate gold helmet early cone style)
Holy Warriors (dreadlocked with loincloth and club)
Cavalry
Horse Archers/Scouts
Rajpur Lancers (ornate turban spear and shield)
Arjuna Chariots (ornate gold helmet early cone style after hero Arjuna)
Elephant Archers
Elephant Spears
Royal Elephants (ornate white elephant with minaret palanquin)
Special Units
Tigers
This is likely to be the last style of full faction besides the Monks. Mongols, Koreans and a whole number of other strange units will appear as rebels/mercenaries/assorted small scale factions (ie. factions with fewer unit types).
Indian Kingdom:
Infantry
Peasant Infantry (loin cloth, buckler and scimitar)
Rajpur Infantry (ornate turban scimitar and shield)
Rajpur Spears (ornate turban spear and shield)
Gurkha Infantry (powerful close combat troops)
Babur Infantry (ornate gold helmet early cone style)
Babur archers (ornate gold helmet early cone style)
Holy Warriors (dreadlocked with loincloth and club)
Cavalry
Horse Archers/Scouts
Rajpur Lancers (ornate turban spear and shield)
Arjuna Chariots (ornate gold helmet early cone style after hero Arjuna)
Elephant Archers
Elephant Spears
Royal Elephants (ornate white elephant with minaret palanquin)
Special Units
Tigers
This is likely to be the last style of full faction besides the Monks. Mongols, Koreans and a whole number of other strange units will appear as rebels/mercenaries/assorted small scale factions (ie. factions with fewer unit types).
You mean kinda like Dacia or Gaul where they only have like 9 diff units? So you will have the Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Demon, Monk and then a few more with only a few units? That makes sense but Dont you think the Koreans should also be a full army since they are Imperial like? anyway just a thought great spearmen btw
Yes, So a mongol faction would have perhaps just 4 infantry and three cavalry types and work work as a localised mini faction. Silver Rusher put forward an army list for a full Korean faction but I've been unable to find any good visual reference for them. If anyone knows of any good sites/ imagery for koreans (and mongols) please let me know.
Well your concept art is amazing so could you not simply draw it off a description? Well I suppose that is alot of work but a full korean faction would be awesome.
Hmm, excellent idea w/ the Indians, but a few suggestions.
Firstly, i thought it was Rajput not Rajpur but i could be wrong.
Secondly you've included Rajputs and Baburs, who quite frankly hated each other, in the same army. Although the Baburs did incorporate Rajputs into thier armies, the Rajputs always had pure Rajput detachments and these detachment were few and small. Also the Rajputs were mainly calvary, using other peoples as grunt troops, while they turned the tide with calvary shock.
Thirdly i'm a bit concerned with Gurkhas. They didn't exist until the 1500s and they were in Nepal, and i don't think the Baburs had much contact with them. I would suggest replacing them with Kushans, though few after thier time, they were still around and used as elite infantry by the Rajput, Sultans, and Baburs.
Fourthly, could you elaborate on Elephant spears? I don't think you can really use a spear if you're on the top of an elephant but i could be wrong.
Finally, i'm not sure about the Holy warriors, Indians didn't really use fanatics in thier armies, i can understand this being a reference to the Vedic legends and thier great heroes, but it seems a bit out of place.
Sorry for the great, and once again, great job so far. And I'd love to see Tigers and/or Tiger riders.
Firstly, i thought it was Rajput not Rajpur but i could be wrong.
Secondly you've included Rajputs and Baburs, who quite frankly hated each other, in the same army. Although the Baburs did incorporate Rajputs into thier armies, the Rajputs always had pure Rajput detachments and these detachment were few and small. Also the Rajputs were mainly calvary, using other peoples as grunt troops, while they turned the tide with calvary shock.
Thirdly i'm a bit concerned with Gurkhas. They didn't exist until the 1500s and they were in Nepal, and i don't think the Baburs had much contact with them. I would suggest replacing them with Kushans, though few after thier time, they were still around and used as elite infantry by the Rajput, Sultans, and Baburs.
Fourthly, could you elaborate on Elephant spears? I don't think you can really use a spear if you're on the top of an elephant but i could be wrong.
Finally, i'm not sure about the Holy warriors, Indians didn't really use fanatics in thier armies, i can understand this being a reference to the Vedic legends and thier great heroes, but it seems a bit out of place.
Sorry for the great, and once again, great job so far. And I'd love to see Tigers and/or Tiger riders.
Gah! Sorry. Last line should read:
"Sorry for the rant, and once again great job so far."
...bloody lack of edit feature...
"Sorry for the rant, and once again great job so far."
...bloody lack of edit feature...
Righto, have to agree with DragoonXXIV on the idea of making the Indians more cavalry based with massed but weak infantry (discounting the elite units but if these were made skirmishers also they would be suplementary to the masses rather then holding the line by themselves). Also, would it be possible to include Indian tribal skirmisher javelin units (I'm thinking akin to Cilician pirates).
Additionally, though I doubt the historicity of it, ancient Indian hunting dogs were said to be able to tear apart a lion (well, alledgedly three of them could) and never run from battle, so you could considor these as a kind of 'Tigers lite' unit if you dont mind filling the army list up with animals (though it leaves more scope for some of the more nature based generals retinue characters such as master hunter etc.)
And once again, incredible work, the scope of this mod increases every time I read this thread
Cheers
Additionally, though I doubt the historicity of it, ancient Indian hunting dogs were said to be able to tear apart a lion (well, alledgedly three of them could) and never run from battle, so you could considor these as a kind of 'Tigers lite' unit if you dont mind filling the army list up with animals (though it leaves more scope for some of the more nature based generals retinue characters such as master hunter etc.)
And once again, incredible work, the scope of this mod increases every time I read this thread
Cheers
I was just thinking since this is a fantasy mod WHY BE HISTORICAL???
use your imagination and im sure that it dosent matter too much that rapjuts and baburs are in the same army.
use your imagination and im sure that it dosent matter too much that rapjuts and baburs are in the same army.
One of my activities for this Winter Break (since it is no longer politically correct to call it Christmas Break), has been to finish the Heike Monogatari (The Tale of Heike). It is the definitive chronicle of the Genpei War and to many events before and after it.
Anyway, through my reading I have a few things to say about the Monk and Demon factions.
For the monks, there should be warriors who look just like regular samurai! The book makes constant reference to "helmeted and armored monks". The fully armored monks are knowns as "worker monks" those who are older and less martial are the "scholar monks". Perhaps there should be a druid style units for the un-armored, un-armred scholar monks? Also, palaquins! (spelling?) Yes, the sacred portable shrines of the Enryakuji monks. Instead of having a general's bodyguard unit, have a palaquin with a few ceremoniously dressed monks.
For the Demons, there should be a unit that is just one big giant floating head! Yes, there have been reference in the book to such creatures haunting cursed samurai.
One BIG unit recommendation for the Mongols: timberwolves! The Mongols had great respect for wolves (few in their land). And with wardogs, it'd be a relatively easy job.
Anyway, through my reading I have a few things to say about the Monk and Demon factions.
For the monks, there should be warriors who look just like regular samurai! The book makes constant reference to "helmeted and armored monks". The fully armored monks are knowns as "worker monks" those who are older and less martial are the "scholar monks". Perhaps there should be a druid style units for the un-armored, un-armred scholar monks? Also, palaquins! (spelling?) Yes, the sacred portable shrines of the Enryakuji monks. Instead of having a general's bodyguard unit, have a palaquin with a few ceremoniously dressed monks.
For the Demons, there should be a unit that is just one big giant floating head! Yes, there have been reference in the book to such creatures haunting cursed samurai.
One BIG unit recommendation for the Mongols: timberwolves! The Mongols had great respect for wolves (few in their land). And with wardogs, it'd be a relatively easy job.
I completely agree with Turin about the monks. They should be samurai, give or take a few units. As for a giant floating head for the demons... well i can think of dozens of Japanese monsters that weren't used in this mod, face it there are just to many. Pardon the pun . However i just want to point out that wolves are nothing like dogs, they're bigger, and have a completely different build, extremely different than European breds. Don't think you can just retexture wardogs and get wolves, you'd need a completely different model. That being said... Wolves would be awesome.
. However i just want to point out that wolves are nothing like dogs, they're bigger, and have a completely different build, extremely different than European breds. Don't think you can just retexture wardogs and get wolves, you'd need a completely different model. That being said... Wolves would be awesome.Originally Posted by Turin:
One BIG unit recommendation for the Mongols: timberwolves! The Mongols had great respect for wolves (few in their land). And with wardogs, it'd be a relatively easy job.
They weren't "timberwolves" specifically but...One BIG unit recommendation for the Mongols: timberwolves! The Mongols had great respect for wolves (few in their land). And with wardogs, it'd be a relatively easy job.
The gray wolf is the patriotic animal for most Altai people, such as Turks and Mongols. But we never used them in battle, it's just our mythology. I don't recall the Americans ever sending bald eagles to pester the British redcoats.
If anyone has a specific question about Mongols or other Turkic people please ask.
Aha, slight mix up with the terminology I think. I must admit I used Rajpur as a placeholder for the name of the Indian faction rather than meaning Rajput. Where I have put Rajpur spears etc I just mean turbanned, later style Indian units. Babur equally is just refering to the earlier style. I'm mixing units from completely different periods as I did with the chinese and japanese factions .
Emperor Eric - I'm not really even sure of the style of Korean units, did they look like chinese units? Does anyone have any descriptions of what they wore or links to sites?
Dragoon - as mentioned above I don't think my descriptions were very good. I'm doing concepts for them soon so hopefully it'll be clearer. Historical animosities will be left aside for the fight against the demon horde .
Turin - top ideas, I'm going to need some help when I do the monk faction. The monks are going to be made of at least two or three factions made up of a mixture of monks from different periods and different factions. Each faction will only have a handful of monk unit types but they will have numbers and some heroes or elite units.
Zafer - Definitely interested in help on the mongol faction, wolves are definitely in as are shamans, cavalry archers, light cavalry and heavy cavalry. Any more ideas for Mongol units? Would it look too wrong to have shamans fighting as a unit in a fantasy environment?
cheers for all the input folks
Emperor Eric - I'm not really even sure of the style of Korean units, did they look like chinese units? Does anyone have any descriptions of what they wore or links to sites?
Dragoon - as mentioned above I don't think my descriptions were very good. I'm doing concepts for them soon so hopefully it'll be clearer. Historical animosities will be left aside for the fight against the demon horde
.Turin - top ideas, I'm going to need some help when I do the monk faction. The monks are going to be made of at least two or three factions made up of a mixture of monks from different periods and different factions. Each faction will only have a handful of monk unit types but they will have numbers and some heroes or elite units.
Zafer - Definitely interested in help on the mongol faction, wolves are definitely in as are shamans, cavalry archers, light cavalry and heavy cavalry. Any more ideas for Mongol units? Would it look too wrong to have shamans fighting as a unit in a fantasy environment?
cheers for all the input folks
Hey All, first off I'd like to say hi and how are ya'll :)
Now on to buisness as it were, Hoggy IMHO if you'd like to find a group of "warrior monks" that could be truely unique maybe you should aim for the Chinese monks instead of Japanese? Or with the Japanese monks (obviously not on the same faction list) because the Chinese monks and their Kung Fu added a slew of new weapons and fighting styles that would be possible within the RTW engine :)
Here is a link to a site with LOTS of ancient chinese weapons:
http://www.chinese-weapon.com.tw/english.htm
http://store.martialartsmart.net/chi...s-weapons.html
My favorites are the Rope Dart and Chain Whip :) all of which are quite possible inside RTW's engine.
Oh BTW those ShiShi Riders look perfect for a chinese Lion
http://www.jowgakungfu.com/cgi-bin/m...lts/ml=16.html
That site has a lot of info on a specific style of Kung Fu (one that I take) but the pictures on that site are a good idea of what "chinese lions" should look like :) and yours are nearly perfect.
Now on to buisness as it were, Hoggy IMHO if you'd like to find a group of "warrior monks" that could be truely unique maybe you should aim for the Chinese monks instead of Japanese? Or with the Japanese monks (obviously not on the same faction list) because the Chinese monks and their Kung Fu added a slew of new weapons and fighting styles that would be possible within the RTW engine :)
Here is a link to a site with LOTS of ancient chinese weapons:
http://www.chinese-weapon.com.tw/english.htm
http://store.martialartsmart.net/chi...s-weapons.html
My favorites are the Rope Dart and Chain Whip :) all of which are quite possible inside RTW's engine.
Oh BTW those ShiShi Riders look perfect for a chinese Lion
http://www.jowgakungfu.com/cgi-bin/m...lts/ml=16.html
That site has a lot of info on a specific style of Kung Fu (one that I take) but the pictures on that site are a good idea of what "chinese lions" should look like :) and yours are nearly perfect.
Another unit for the demons: Harlequins! I know it is quite a western word, but it can be applied to anything. The literal translation is "devil's horsemen" or something like that. They could be all dark and fiery and their horses could be completely black except maybe with red streaks? Anyway, good luck on the mod, the indians look pretty good. Looking forward to seeing some elephant stompin' action! But one thing though, I noticed from the map of the campaign you made that each kingdom will now be subdivided into different "clans". Why? I much preffered the previous idea of just having one kingdom per cultural group. I think a demon kingdom, a chinese kingdom, a japanese kingdom, an indian kingdom, a mongol kingdom (minor), a korean kingdom (minor) and of course the monks would be a much better idea. I understand you would want more factions, but IMO that is enough for anybody.
here are the elite imperial guards:
Wow! I've just got to say this mod is everything and more what I wanted a mod to be in R:TW, thanks so much.
Tight!
Amazing. This mod looks to be the bee's knees.
And for hoggy to be doing all ths without all the pomp and fanfare associated with some of the other mods is even more impressive.
Nice work!
And for hoggy to be doing all ths without all the pomp and fanfare associated with some of the other mods is even more impressive.
Nice work!
Hoggy, your talents are awe inspiring. Consider me in on downloading this mod when it's done.
I don't want to be a turd, but I noticed in the later threads that Korea wasn't included on the campaign map. Can you still include it as a faction?
On a historical note, Korea had quite a swashbuckling history. Some other units could be:
Hawrang-Do (Flowering Youth:- These were sons of nobles dedicated to martial learning and academia. They were expected to excell with the compound bow, sword, horsemanship and science.
Horse archers:- Korea had an accomodating relationship with the Mongols during their reign, and as a result, inherited the exrtemely powerful compound bow. I studied Korean Traditional archer for several years in Seoul, and these weapons are quite powerful.
Hero Units:- Both hero archers and lone swordsmen. During the Hideyoshi invasions of Korean archers held off against Japanese arquebusquers.
Korea's esoterical and mythical stories are sources for good units also.
Guardians:- The heavily muscled, fanged and shaven headed warriors that guard the entrances to Korean Buddhist temples.
Gishin:- Korean ghosts, that glide across the earth in flowing white robes.
Also, just a thought, and I can't remember if a thread already exists, but have you considered including minor dieties in the game? The four winds, or cardinal directions for Korea and China, for example, are depicted as fearsome, fanged warriors armed with bow and heavy-bladed pike. Perhaps they could be uber-units, recruitable only if a faction has their largest temple?
Anyhoo, Blue Lotus is pretty much my mod of choice, and I can't wait for its release. I really hope there's a Korean faction. I wish I was more computer savy, I'd do some artwork and post the picks.
-Doglover
I don't want to be a turd, but I noticed in the later threads that Korea wasn't included on the campaign map. Can you still include it as a faction?
On a historical note, Korea had quite a swashbuckling history. Some other units could be:
Hawrang-Do (Flowering Youth:- These were sons of nobles dedicated to martial learning and academia. They were expected to excell with the compound bow, sword, horsemanship and science.
Horse archers:- Korea had an accomodating relationship with the Mongols during their reign, and as a result, inherited the exrtemely powerful compound bow. I studied Korean Traditional archer for several years in Seoul, and these weapons are quite powerful.
Hero Units:- Both hero archers and lone swordsmen. During the Hideyoshi invasions of Korean archers held off against Japanese arquebusquers.
Korea's esoterical and mythical stories are sources for good units also.
Guardians:- The heavily muscled, fanged and shaven headed warriors that guard the entrances to Korean Buddhist temples.
Gishin:- Korean ghosts, that glide across the earth in flowing white robes.
Also, just a thought, and I can't remember if a thread already exists, but have you considered including minor dieties in the game? The four winds, or cardinal directions for Korea and China, for example, are depicted as fearsome, fanged warriors armed with bow and heavy-bladed pike. Perhaps they could be uber-units, recruitable only if a faction has their largest temple?
Anyhoo, Blue Lotus is pretty much my mod of choice, and I can't wait for its release. I really hope there's a Korean faction. I wish I was more computer savy, I'd do some artwork and post the picks.
-Doglover
super-awesome looking mod hoggy! i don't really know much about the cultures you're sort-of representing, but i can toss out some random ideas..
the mongols/koreans/etc.. you may be right in making them unplayable factions. i think your mod would benefit from having some "3rd" parties, so to speak. that said, here are a couple of sites with mongol-ish pics (for unit design).
http://www.buryatmongol.com/shamanism.html
this is a general info site about mongolian shamanism, i think the mongols had several sacred animals.. maybe you can have different kinds of shaman in their armies (falcon-shaman, horse-shaman, wolf.. etc).
http://www.newmastersgallery.com/ArtistsT/tseng.htm
this is a gallery of an artists paintings. probably not uber-historical, but very colorful.. look like they'd be fun for you to model :) notice the warrior with falcon.. maybe you can expound upon that idea and just kinda invent some units
http://karws.gso.uri.edu/Photo_shows...Mongolian.html
that's a chinese actor playing a mongol barbarian on the great wall.. probably even less accurate than the painting
http://www.le.ac.uk/geology/wdc2/culture.htm
some modern "culture" photos.
http://www.atarn.org/mongolian/mongolia.htm
a crap-load about mongolian archery. see this: http://www.atarn.org/mongolian/mngtchnq.htm
this whole asian archery research network is pretty cool (http://www.atarn.org/frameindex.htm)
just a couple of googling images..
14th c. warrior
modern wrestlers (wrestling is very big in mongol culture, i believe)
as for music, why not use some tuvan/mongol throat-singing? it'd be very distinctive.. but maybe not the best battle music. oh, you should check some throat-singing cd covers for visuals too (like huun-huur-tu, chirgilchin and the like). what about the mongol invasion expansion for STW? i never played that game, but wouldn't there be some good starting points in there?
oh, and take the elephants from the demons and give them to the indians, imo. obviously the indians should/will have elephants, but i don't like seeing those noble animals serving in the demon army
besides, with he dragons, do they really need more mounts?
lol hope some of that helps or something, anyway good luck with the mod, it looks sweet
the mongols/koreans/etc.. you may be right in making them unplayable factions. i think your mod would benefit from having some "3rd" parties, so to speak. that said, here are a couple of sites with mongol-ish pics (for unit design).
http://www.buryatmongol.com/shamanism.html
this is a general info site about mongolian shamanism, i think the mongols had several sacred animals.. maybe you can have different kinds of shaman in their armies (falcon-shaman, horse-shaman, wolf.. etc).
http://www.newmastersgallery.com/ArtistsT/tseng.htm
this is a gallery of an artists paintings. probably not uber-historical, but very colorful.. look like they'd be fun for you to model :) notice the warrior with falcon.. maybe you can expound upon that idea and just kinda invent some units
http://karws.gso.uri.edu/Photo_shows...Mongolian.html
that's a chinese actor playing a mongol barbarian on the great wall.. probably even less accurate than the painting
http://www.le.ac.uk/geology/wdc2/culture.htm
some modern "culture" photos.
http://www.atarn.org/mongolian/mongolia.htm
a crap-load about mongolian archery. see this: http://www.atarn.org/mongolian/mngtchnq.htm
this whole asian archery research network is pretty cool (http://www.atarn.org/frameindex.htm)
just a couple of googling images..
14th c. warrior
modern wrestlers (wrestling is very big in mongol culture, i believe)
as for music, why not use some tuvan/mongol throat-singing? it'd be very distinctive.. but maybe not the best battle music. oh, you should check some throat-singing cd covers for visuals too (like huun-huur-tu, chirgilchin and the like). what about the mongol invasion expansion for STW? i never played that game, but wouldn't there be some good starting points in there?
oh, and take the elephants from the demons and give them to the indians, imo. obviously the indians should/will have elephants, but i don't like seeing those noble animals serving in the demon army
besides, with he dragons, do they really need more mounts? lol hope some of that helps or something, anyway good luck with the mod, it looks sweet
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