Blue Lotus: Total War

[hoggy]

Here are the chinese female hero unit (does anyone know a suitable chinese heroine name for the unit to be named after?):

[Al Khalifah]

I'd say Nia or Mei, but that's probaly due to seeing House of the Flying Daggers t'other day.

If you haven't seen this film yet Hoggy, you must. It will give you some excellent inspiration - the Bamboo spearmen would be good (combat bonus in woods ) or if it were possible for a unit to throw a volley of daggers at the enemy before engaging them in melee (like the Legions do with Javelins) then there could be Flying Daggers. I couldn't help but think of this mod when watching the film - although as Oriental cinema goes, it wasn't that fantastical.

[Shiyuan]

If they were japenese id say Geisha Warriors...but since they Chinese try:

1) What the above guy said

2) Chinese Amazon Warriors

3) Chinese Female Bodygaurd


Try those...great turnout btw

[junkmonk]

Hey Hoggy.., is it possible to make one person for the hero unit, and maybe a few of their royal body guards.. like 5.. so make that girl, plus 5 other body guards.. would be cool, other than having these clone girls.. you know? And whats with her dress? It looks wierd how its black at the bottom when it flips up? Wyh does it flip up? Also the dress looks very blocky at the bottom... but otherwise great mod!

[Big_John]

a couple of legendary chinese heroines are hua mu lan and mu gui ying (i know my transliterations suck.. feel free to correct them you chiense speakers). "mu lan maidens"? "flowes of gui ying"? haha.. i have no clue

[Turin]

I have to agree with the one person per unit idea.

Also, if possible, one unit per campaign.

Names (Real people):

Yang Gui Fei
Mu Lan
...yeah, there were not that many notable female figures in Chinese history

Names (made up):

Li Qin Fong (blue wind)
Hong Shue Fei (this one is a pun, it can mean flying red blood, or flying red snow, snow is common in real names, blood is not)

If you want a male hero, a MUST is a man named Guan Yu
If there was ever a warrior (a non-mythical one) that people love and worship, it has to be Guan Yu, he personifies all the qualities of a great warrior. Here's a pic:
http://www.magictrade.dk/images/kort...%20Warrior.JPG
(yes, he is so popular that they made him into a magic card)
Here's my idea: model the man like the generals unit, one Guan Yu with like a small number of other bodyguards. One of them MUST carry a flag bearing the symbol you see in the card, the big Chinese character in the top left corner of the picture, the one on the flag. This is very important because all generals went into battle with someone bearing their name on a banner.

Also, I definitely agree that there needs to be a female hero for the Japanese, but please for the love of kamisama, do not make it a geisha. This is not some cheesy 80's movie where the only things that exist in Japan are sushi, samurai, ninjas anf geishas.
Instead try something like this: in early Japanese history, long before witing and recorded history, Japan was ruled by females, empresses and other female warriors (they were males one too of course). Anyways, there are some legendary females warriors in early Japanese history. They were all horse archers of course.

Another idea for a Japanese hero is someone called Minamoto no Hikaru (literally the light of the house of Minamoto). There are lots of warriors in Japanese history, no duh. But Hikaru is notable because he is the main character in Genji Monogatari (Tale of the Genji). Very very famous work, one that is quasi-mythical. Anyways, he'd be a horse archer too. One with bodyguards (also horse archers) and a white banner the color of the house of Genji.

[Kallimachus]

Personally I really prefer the 'real world' campaign map with the faction positional adjustments discussed to aid balance, though if Japan was placed close to the mainland so a single turn port to land ship hop could be made it surely wouldn't need to be joined.

I also think the idea of retexturing the map to give the mod that even more original feel, though, and I have no idea if this is possible, if each region had its own particular look, or feel it might be even more awesome. Primarily this would probably just involve changing the trees EG: Blossoms for Japan, Jungle in India and possibly Korea, and I dont' know, somthing suitably twisted for the demon regions. Though again, I have no idea of the limits of possibility and, indeed, the workload here .

Cheers

[DragoonXXIV]

Turin: Actually there already is a female Japanese Hero, the Tomoe Gozen unit. Although i completely agree w/ you about Guan Yu.
In my opinion the biggest flaw of the Total War series is how the units are hierarchical, i.e. once you have silver shield pikemen, there's no need to make a phalanx pikemen or levy pikemen. In fact the game heavily discourages sheer masses of lesser troops because almost all line units are 1/turn and take no time to retrain. To balance this you have to either play with the number of troops in a unit or the amount of time it takes to build a unit, perferably both, but in essence you want each unit to fill a specific purpose and not just be a better version of the same thing.
In this vain i think all the heroes should be like Kensai from S:TW, namely by themselves, so alone they'll get surrounded and slaughtered but they're a deadly surpise if mixed with with a regular unit.

[hoggy]

Cheers for the name ideas. At the momemt one person units aren't possible in RTW it's a minimum of 6 i think and it depends on your unit size setting so I'm simply making small elite units and naming them after a particular hero. I may be able to do something with general units but it's unlikely I'll be able to name them and all the generals will look the same for every army.

[Raziaar]

Cheers for the name ideas. At the momemt one person units aren't possible in RTW it's a minimum of 6 i think and it depends on your unit size setting so I'm simply making small elite units and naming them after a particular hero. I may be able to do something with general units but it's unlikely I'll be able to name them and all the generals will look the same for every army.

Well, isn't it possible for the 'general' of a unit to have more hitpoints and abilities than the other units of his formation?

If so, why not just have the commander of a unit be the hero model, and the others be something else and distinctively different and with different, weaker stats. That way it can be the hero, and his 'bodyguards' of sorts.

I dunno, if it works that way, I guess it could be good.

[Myrddraal]

Hoggy, if you make a unit of hero's bodyguards, size 6 with the hero as the officer, thats perfectly possible, one hero per unit. If someone puts the unit size to high, more bodyguards will appear, but only one hero, as there is only ever one officer.

[Lin Chung]

i am not usually a fan of ahistorical games but WOW...this one i'm really looking forward to !
as for female heroes for the chinese....dont forget Hu San-Niang ,a double sword warrior of Liang Shan Po
heres a link for other heroes
http://www.geocities.com/nguyenvfr/English/herosx.html


keep up the good work ...think i'm looking forward to this as much as i did the arrival of RTW itself

[junkmonk]

Cheers for the name ideas. At the momemt one person units aren't possible in RTW it's a minimum of 6 i think and it depends on your unit size setting so I'm simply making small elite units and naming them after a particular hero. I may be able to do something with general units but it's unlikely I'll be able to name them and all the generals will look the same for every army.

Oh.. ok it would still be cool to have like 10 elite units or something.., but doesn't make much sense naming a group of people to one person does it? Maybe just call them Elite Geisha's or something like that...

[Big_John]

Oh.. ok it would still be cool to have like 10 elite units or something.., but doesn't make much sense naming a group of people to one person does it? Maybe just call them Elite Geisha's or something like that...

well, it could be a 'school' of elite warroirs who name theirselves after the heroic warrior they emulate.

[TigerVX]

You can't change officer stats unforunately, they're hard coded I believe. All officers get +1 hitpoint from the unit they're attatched to, and all generals get +5 I think. Otherwise everything is the same so a unit with one attack and one defense will still have a centurion with one defense and one attack, only it will have another hitpoint.

[Red Tide]

Hey Hoggy, just wanted to say that I have been looking at this mod and it is really exicting seeing all the new units that you are producing. They are definatly the highest quality that is out there. I have one suggestion though, you are talking about adding more factions like the mongols, koreans, indians etc etc, which is fine. But I think you should add a european style faction, with knights and such to clash with the asian cultures. I've always wanted to take my samurai up against an european army and vice versa. I think that it would add alot of variety to your already beautiful mod. Please consider my suggestion, thank you.

Red Tide

[Kageka]

((excuse my grammar :embarrassed: ))

First of all I have to say that you (Hoggy) are a one talented genius. Hats of for you!
You deliver high quality models and sketches faster than the speed of light.

The concept of a fantasy Asia is entirely in my taste. As a matter of fact me and two of my friends have been creating a strategic war board game in a fantasy Asia. The project went along and the rules and factions are done, but we have never polished it. In other words we haven’t play tested it enough and we haven’t cleaned it up and packaged it so to speak. And if I have to be honest I never think we will finish it.

Why do I talk about my project here? Well since that project wont be finished I think I can snitch a few ideas from our game and share them with you if you want (not that I think you’re not able to come up with your own ideas).

First of all I see that you still call the different factions by the culture it’s derived from (Chinese, Japanese, Indian). I don’t know if you have come up with names for your factions already but still I have a few ideas for the factions.



About them troops...
But before that I have to tell you that I personally think that you should cut down on standard troop types and then let every sub-faction within the factions have there own special troops.

For example the Japanese faction could have the following as basic troops available for all sub-factions (clans): Ashigaru, Yari samurai, Samurai swords, Samurai archers, Cavalry archers, Yari Cavalry, Samurai Cavalry.

One of the Japanese clans could be more armour orientated and have special troops as: Heavy samurai, Heavy Cavalry.

Another Japanese clan may be religious “fanatics” therefore have special troops like: Kamikaze, Sohei monks.

The third clan may go for a balance between elegance and defence and because of that have troops like: Elite swordsmen, Naginata.

The reason I think this specialization would be improve the game play is that I gives more personality, strength and vulnerability to every faction and sub-faction. Will make every faction a special way to handle battle with the faction's strategic profile.



Faction name ideas
Back to the faction-names then.

-THE CLAN LORDS-
This is what we called our Japanese faction in the board game. I think it’s a fitting name since the name sounds powerful and telling at the same time. It also shows that the faction’s sub-factions/clans war amongst each other but stand together when their people/kingdom/realm is threatened.


-THE GOLDEN EMPIRE-
Or just the “Empire”. This is what we called our Chinese-inspired faction in our board game. The combination of Golden and Empire sounds as vast, strong, ancient and yet progressive as China was/is. We didn’t hack up our fantasy-china in sub factions. But I guess a Total War game should be as balanced as possible so hacking up China in sub-factions is probably the wisest thing to do. Still I think calling the sub-factions fiefdoms or states more fitting than calling them clans. But that’s just my opinion.


-THE RAJ-
Ok we didn’t have any India-influenced faction in our board game so I have no real background or such for this name-pick. But hey, Raj, that’s Indian =)


-THE SENATE-
Well this is a really good name for the monks and priests island. No doubt there. I think you should include asian “Good” mythical creatures as mounts or warrior beasts
into the Senate’s army list.

Examples of “fitting” troops you already have sketched are: Shishi Riders, Copper dragon.

In our board game we had a similar faction like the senate. This faction was heavily influenced by Tibet and Nepal. It was placed among the mountains and glaciers and was called “the Mountain hood”.

Except monks and priest we had tibetan spearmen and guards. But we also included YETI (we pictured them as white haired/furred, black/red skinned majestic hulks about 12 feet tall). We had troops like Yeti Wrestlers (unarmed berserkers) and Yeti Warriors (armed with wooden clubs and Iron helmets).

So one idea is if the Senate’s island is a rocky and snowy highland of mountains and such. This would also give the Senate-faction a more steady profile due the purely cultural influences from Tibet and Nepal.


-THE HORDE-
Well guess who they are? Mongols of course! =) … may not be the best name suggestion, but hey it works???


-THE RESTLESS-
Our game didn’t have one big faction of baddies. We had about four evil factions to be exact. One of them consisted of ghosts and undead. We called this faction “the Restless”. I don’t know if you like the idea of splitting the Demon faction into smaller factions. But as I said before, I really think it would give every faction a more distinctive profile if they were more coherent.

My suggestion of typical troops (that you already have included/sketched) for the Restless would be: Zombie ashigaru, Undead samurai, Ghost geisha, Demon samurai, Floating hags. You could also include the terracotta-army here, make them into some ghostly animated golem type of thing.


-THE LEGION-
Maybe not the most original name for a demon-army, but why not? It sounds fearsome, strong, furious and without mercy.
Typical troops for these guys could be: Bakemono, Rokurokubi infantry, Hanya infantry, Wang liangs.

I also think you should include the Oni into the bad guys (not very original but effective). In our game we had troops like Oni Mace infantry (semi naked, armed with iron mace) and Oni Ironbacks (armed in iron helmets, bracers and belly plate. Armed with two-handed iron clubs). Maybe include some more evil-looking dragon hound mounted oni.


-THE GATHERING-
In our game we had a faction of rogues, bandits and such. We called this faction “the Bandit swarm”… but now I find the name a bit lame. The Gathering gives a more mystical dimension to the faction considering that it could be the low-life cannon fodder part of the “evil” factions. The Gathering could be more of a cult that attracts scum, outlaws and demi-humanoids maybe?

If so troops that you already have made and fit in here could be: Basket ronin, Kappa archers, Snow monkey infantry, Kappa beastriders, Elephant tower…
Ad troops like chinese pirates and really scruffy bandits like the ones from Akira Kurosawa’s film “the Seven samurai”.


I hope that some of my suggestions here will be of some help (not that you seem to need any help though…).
And again; I think the mod you’re doing is going to be the coolest part in the Total War series. The only reason I will buy Rome TW is because of this mod (and the Middle earth TW mod).

[hoggy]

Cheers for hero info everybody. Some top ideas in there Kageka it's a shame the board game didn't get done it sounds good.

As an aside, thanks to DJ and TosaInu Blue Lotus has got it's own sub-thread. I think the one long thread was getting a bit unmanageable, hopefully this will make things a lot easier to find especially for new people. Hope you like it.

[CaeroxVII]

Good to see you finally got one, this mod(or just the models alone)deserves it, lets hope the gameplay of the mod can match the models

[The_678]

Yeah man congrats on the forum. This is the mod I'm lookign forward to most but I haven't posted yet here though I've been following it since the beginning. It's looks amazing and keep up the good work.

[spikke]

hoggy, when you think you finish this mod ?

[DemonArchangel]

Dude, give the monks the half moon glaive.

[DragoonXXIV]

DemonArchangel: You mean a Naginata? I think the Japanese sohei monks already have those.
What i'd like to see for the monks are the Japanese Onmyou with ranged spell attacks

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

I had a go at adjusting the campmap textures to get a more ancient look and improve clarity. What do you think? Eventually obviously, town, bridge, boat models etc will be modded too:

I totally agree with you about the new texture for the strat map particularly in from the coastline...though the jungles of SE Asia should be super lush with really bright vibrant greens and not the dark greens of RTW...Permanent Green Light is the coulour
Lighter than that..

[Saranalos]

I just wanted to say looks really good so far and is the view count of this topic really correct cos its at 36,000?

[kendonosensei]

Hoggy, mate, I hope you had a good holiday. I have come across a 100% authentic Japanese name for you. It refers to a group of female warriors who fought in the Boshin Civil War, 1868-9.

They were called the "Joushigun" and are almost legendary in Japanese culture. Best of all, they were small in number - so they're a true elite.

If you've got a name for the female samurai heroes already, I hope you don't mind considering this.

About the campaign map. Yes, I don't think naval power should be too important. But at the same time, I think the Demon faction needs to be more accessible - else the Chinese faction'll get the brunt of the fighting. Why not have it similar to the original map but change some things. For example you could have some land connections between the different factions, while still making the sea very important.

Hoggy, those Chinese female warriors look amazing. I think someone has seen HERO too much As to a name for the unit, I'll ask my Chinese ex about that. She might be able to come up with something.

"Dao Ma Dan" is a reference that means something like "warrior woman" but it's not appropriate here. A "Dao Ma Dan" is supposed to be fully clothed in armour. Just mentioned it in case someone found a reference to it.

By the way, we CAN'T give hero units the name of ONE PERSON. It has to refer to an organisation or a unit. Come on, just because Hoggy can't rewrite the game to make them look different, doesn't mean that they're the same person

If we can't get a Chinese name for them, how about something like "Sisterhood of the Red Lotus" (as they're wearing red robes).

Stay cool, dude!

[Galen]

Again Hoggy Got to say I LOVE THIS MOD :) I can't wait to play it ;) and would love to play even a beta of it.

Asian (especailly chinese) warfare has always been of interest to me, especailly when their demonology is inovlved in the wars!

Heh those women look like Flying Snow during the first part of Hero, which IMHO is quite alright since i liked Flying Snow ;) ;), as for a name the most famous of Chinese Women warriors was Hua Mu-Lan but as a group there were the:

Taiping women warriors or something like that I don't know if that name is spelled right or not:
Among the fiercest and most-feared soldiers of the Taipings were the divisions of beautiful women warriors dressed in gorgeous silks who often fought independently from men. These were known as “the silken armies.”

They were a wierd lot who fought to spread their own bizarre form of Christianity, but for the sake of this game you can just have them as a clan of women warriors (Though I do like the name Silken Armies) :)

[hoggy]

Hello there, again top stuff on the name and map ideas..
spikke- the mod is likely to be a long running thing and the release at least after a CA patch. I'm not in any hurry at the moment just enjoying the modelling of units and modding of RTW.

on a seperate issue I'm taking a week off from working on the mod. I've just started work again after some time off in Dec and I need to get back into the flow of evening working. Will be back to modelling and modding next week when I'm going to start on the Chinese cavalry.

[Bulten]

I must agree with the dude who encouraged a fantasymap. I think it would be way more fun than to play in actual asia... Nepallike mountainchains could be included :D Peace!!!

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

I must agree with the dude who encouraged a fantasymap. I think it would be way more fun than to play in actual asia... Nepallike mountainchains could be included :D Peace!!!

And of course that will include indigenous Nepalese and Tibetan style kingdoms with the possibilities that could offer for new units...