Blue Lotus: Total War

[JimBob]

Similar to what doglover said concerning deities, for the Indian faction including some of the more fearsome gods(Durga and Kali come to mind) as high level very powerful very expensive units would give the Indian faction and the game more flavor.

http://www.sanatansociety.org/hindu_...sses/durga.htm
Durga
http://www.sanatansociety.org/hindu_...esses/kali.htm
Kali
http://www.sanatansociety.org/indian...mayana_ram.htm
Ram or Rama
http://www.sanatansociety.org/indian...of_hanuman.htm
Hanuman

[Big_John]

oh also.. i think you should remake the map to be a stylized map of asia instead of the completely fictional one. imo, your map, by divorcing the factions from their lands, really hurts the atmosphere of the game.

by "stylized" i mean making your own using ancient asian art styles as a guide..
http://pasture.ecn.purdue.edu/~agenh...s/art/pic2.gif

etc..

you could have the demons emerging from an erupting volcano island in the south-east.. or from siberia.. the monks could be in tibet/nepal.. lol

[hoggy]

Galen - excellent reference for weapons there. I'm going to have each monk faction have it's own style of monks ie chinese monk faction or japanese monk faction.

Silver Rusher - I've split the chinese and japanese into two clans each to add depth to the gameplay and to allow for improved multiplayer options. crossing fingers it works.

Doglover - Some excellent unit ideas for the koreans there, I just need to find some visual reference.

Big John - top mongol reference. Not sure about the map yet IthinkI'going to playtestthis one first. I think there is a case that it might make naval power too important so it may need some work.

[doglover]

"Doglover - Some excellent unit ideas for the koreans there, I just need to find some visual reference.

Hey Hoggy, if someone can "school" me on scanning and uploading pics I can do some sketches of Korean infantry/archers/horsemen/heros as well as the coolest looking of their Buddhist deities."
I'll do all I can to get the Koreans in there as a playable faction

[Marshal Murat]

I have a small idea.
For the Chinese have a Terra Cotta Army guy.
I'm pretty sure that this may have been suggested, but in the pages I've seen there hasn't been any.

[hoggy]

Doglover - It's ok, been looking tonight and I've found a few things so the Korean mini faction is looking possible

Marshal Murat - I think the terracotta army units are pretty much like the imperial spears in BL (but terracotta statues have no helmets)

[Big_John]

actual terracotta warriors (enchanted kinda like golems i guess) would be pretty cool.. they'd be very elite units i guess.

a couple of korean army pics (mostly three-kingdoms era, i think.. maybe later)
http://www.korea.army.mil/pao/hwaran...3%28JPG%29.jpg
http://www.kimsoft.com/2004/ (be sure to navigate all 5 pages)
http://www.lifeinkorea.com/cgi-bin/pictures.cfm (ehh not great, but maybe some ideas? like here and here)

http://img71.exs.cx/img71/6007/hang1.jpg
http://img11.exs.cx/img11/9967/chiwoomu0910-2.gif
http://img154.exs.cx/img154/5500/ans...ortress-1a.jpg

found them all here: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=141
(see the 2-4 pages especially!)

[doglover]

[QUOTE=hoggy]Doglover - It's ok, been looking tonight and I've found a few things so the Korean mini faction is looking possible

Sorry Hoggy, what is a "mini-faction"? Is it playable, or perhaps just a smaller faction than the japanese or chinese? Kinda like the thracian faction for rtw? I'm still open to help with concepts, just let me know if you need anything.

[hoggy]

fantastic reference Big John, a lot better than I'd got.
Doglover - I'm going to do the Mongols and Koreans as mini factions like the thracians so not as many unit types but they will be playable. At a later date we can add more units to the factions to round them off but to start with we can just have the most important units. It's a matter of modelling time really.

(edit) Here are the concepts for the Indian Infantry and updated armylist:

Infantry
Peasant Infantry
Krishnapur Swordsmen
Krishnapur Guard
Golden warriors
Golden archers
Fanatic Tribesmen
Gurkha Infantry

Cavalry
Horse Archers/Scouts
Krishnapur Lancers (ornate turban spear and shield)
Arjuna Chariots (ornate gold helmet early cone style after hero Arjuna)
Elephant Archers
War Elephants
Royal Elephants (ornate white elephant with minaret palanquin)

Special Units
Tigers

[hoggy]

here are the chinese archers. I modified these slightly from the original concepts (demon archangel input) to make them look less manchurian:

[doglover]

Gorgeous models, Hoggy, they look like an original build. Thanks for the info on the mini factions, I look forward to playing them agains the ods
I just thought of something and cant remember if its been asked yet: Will there be family portraits and character traits?

[hoggy]

doglover - yup, all BL models are original builds rather than just reskins. Portraits and traits will be modded too.

Here are the 'Cho ku no' or repeating crossbow unit. It's a change again from the original concept to make them wear lamellar. Still to do proper crossbow animation at a later date.

[Silver Rusher]

I hope you do get a good animation on those crossbows, hoggy. But judging by your previous work I'm certain you will anyway.

[DemonArchangel]

Hoggy: For the indians, be sure to use a chariot unit, and give the tribal fanatic an indian 2 handed mace instead of that club.

[Ianofsmeg16]

THAT LOOKS ABSOLUTLY FANTASTIC! Especially the chinese they look great!
how far are you in the project? are you finished? if so reply telling me where i can download it because it looks great!

[Big_John]

from the all-empires forums again:
http://www.allempires.com/forum/foru...?TID=1606&PN=1
see bottom of page for chosun dynasty armor/dress.. there's a lot of pictorial examples of korean and chinese armies on that forum.. less about japanese, some about southeast asian, didn't see much indian or mongol info

http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/...=ZVE&code=8003
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/...=ITA&code=6020
13th c mongol army toy soldiers, not colored but you could use them for model guides.

here's a couple of painted mongol toy soldiers:
http://www.hz-forum.de/galerie/ga_herrick.htm
http://users.adelphia.net/~ftduq/Eastern.html
here's a couple of painted mongol toy soldiers

a little more mongol stuff:
http://www.csen.org/Mongol.Nadaam/Mongol.text.html
i really think there should be a mongol wrestler unit, not sure how you'd implement it though.. it could be like the berserkers, high damage, low defense, small unit, good for smashing into the back of engaged units.. i dunno probably sounds better than it would actually be.. just sounds funny and cool to me..

also, i know osprey makes several books on the mongols (http://www.ospreypublishing.com/sear...491328a9ce378e)
if you're so inclined, you could buy a couple..

also, if you make a somewhat realistic map, i'd suggest moving india (and tibet/nepal) over to the east so they are more south than southwest of china, shrinking southeast asia and bringing japan down a bit.. it'd be better play, imo.
http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~p...es/mongmap.jpg


awesome models and concepts as always

[OldRPGer]

Galen - excellent reference for weapons there. I'm going to have each monk faction have it's own style of monks ie chinese monk faction or japanese monk faction.

Maybe Buddist for the Japanese, or perhaps you could substitute Sohei, or
Yamabushi priests if no appropriate monks can be decided upon.

And how about some Ninja, either as a special unit, or perhaps they could
be substituted for the spy and assassin units. They serve pretty much the
same purpose!...........Just a thought!

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

WOW...I was hoping you'd add India to your list of factions, Hoggy...and you've outdone yourself again. I love your drawings...you're a superb artist..the tribal fanatics in particular are great. I can't wait to see them in 3D..

BTW...what courses have you taken for your 3d work? any Gnomon DVDs or courses?

[hoggy]

There have been a few points raised about the current campaign map that it would focus the game too heavily on naval power and also that it is perhaps too fantastical. The armies are at least based loosly on historical factions and the map isn't. Here is an idea for an alternative campaign map. It is very rough obviously but shows the basic idea of a distorted asia map with japan attached to the continent and all factions (except the monks) reachable by land. Any thoughts, preferences? It essentially should be a choice of which will play better and give the best feel for the Blue Lotus mod (hmm, I may even do a poll...) Note: current map is on page 8 of this thread.

[Big_John]

you know i prefer the new map

demons in siberia is a good move, imo. i don't really like the japan solution, but it's probably necessary.. what else could you do? give them an early edge in naval? that'd be hard to balance for sure.. but what are you going to do about the monk island? how ever you deal with their navy/position you could do equally with the japanese.

i think the monks would be better in tibet/nepal

poor mongols will have a devil of a time with the demon faction
(pun intended!)

now you must show us more concept art! i like it as much as the models

[NagatsukaShumi]

I just had to post eventually.

Brilliant prospects for this modification Hoggy. It is vastly different in comparison to so many others you see getting under way just because it has a bit of creativity behind it. I'm not saying other MODs are no good because they are based off of history, but this is just unique due to it been your own little creation, very well done!

Got to say I'm looking forward to playing as they Demon's. Don't know why but they seem quite a bit like the demons from the Onimusha series and I always though they were pretty cool, even if I was hacking them to bits and hey, Nobunaga as the Demon King was cool too.

The difference between factions is what really makes this MOD appealing, not one faction looks the same the Japanese do not resemble the Chinese and so on. It looks as if your going to get some very different factions going here forcing the player to play very differently with each one to win effectively.

My personal preference regarding maps is the one on page 8, but thats just because I'd like to see the mod stay on the path to been your own little world and not a modification of the real world.

Well done.

[DragoonXXIV]

I think the map is a matter of personally taste, i am if you want you can release both maps and people can choose which one they want to play. However there are a few disadvantages to this new map. Firstly what about Kamchatka? The way the factions look, a player using Mongols or Demons would have a large advantage.
Also another problem arises with Japan. Japan is rather small, if you use the real world there is little you can do about it, so if there are multiple Japanese factions they would eat each other very early on, however if you made the Japanese like Rome, Korea is dead. Korea would be surrounded on all sides by powerful enemies and has little if any room to expand, it would be worse than the Greek city states in regular R:TW.
To be blunt there is a reason certain countries had large golden periods and were more important globally and inside thier spheres of influence. Also either way you do it, the AI needs a serious rewrite unless CA releases a big patch soon.

[Silver Rusher]

I don't think this new map is a good idea. I say, play around with the old one so that instead of simple islands, there is maybe one big continent and then islands around it. But it should suit the gameplay, my idea is just so that the demons and mongols get their big continent, and then everybody else have their own little islands to live on.

[hoggy]

If we use the new map the scale and positions of different factions provinces would be tweaked to even out gameplay. Here are the concepts for the Chinese cavalry units in the meantime while we're deciding:

[Big_John]

ha that water buffalo chariot is awesome!
love the expresion on the camel's face..

personally, i think a map based on the real globe adds a lot of personality and atmosphere to the game. i don't see a problem with having different starting difficulties btwn factions either, that's the way it should be (e.g. if i want more of a challenge i can play as korea). tweaking the sizes and start pos., as you said, will be sufficient. meh, make a poll if you can't decide.

i like that you moved japan south, but by connecting it to korea, it seems like you're automatically setting up war btwn two. seems like throwing out the baby with the bathwater to me. i think if you make japan big enough, make hokkaido a rebel province, make taiwan bigger (and rebel), this would give the japanese an option to attack china too. all of this depends on how you deal witht he navies anyway, though.

anyway, it doesn't seem like you're in a rush, so you'll figure it out in time

[manu7777]

do u think that it could be possible to download or send me all japanese kingdom models units and textures?

[Turin]

I like the new map too!

Just remember to be liberal with those impassable mountain ranges, they make for good strategic play.

If you stick with the new map, you might have to keep the Japanese as one faction and split the Chinese into three, just to make the starting territories fair. Otherwise you'd have to make the Chinese territories desolate or somehting else to compensate for the advantage in landmass.

Love the new Chinese cavalry units! Only suggestion: Manchurian Horse Archer. They aren't Mongols and are really quite closely related to the Chinese.

Again, if you are going to stick with the new map, it'd be a good idea not to leave Korea as an independent faction, they would be impossible to play. Put them on the side of the Japanese and separate Japan from the mainland by a very narrow straight.

Just a few friendly suggestions!

[the tokai]

hm what if you take the map from page 8 and merge all the islands together into one big continent? that way you will have a big continent with a sea in the middle. when you do this it is possible to get anywhere on the map over land (except for the monk island) but over sea it goes a lot quicker. so naval power isn't a necessety but it can be very usefull. it's kinda like with the map from vanilla RTW, you've got the mediterranean sea in the middle but you can get anywhere over land.

[ptolemy]

dude this looks so kool keep up the good work. keep me updated plz. how do u do stuff like that anyway?

[Big_John]

i second almost everything the wise turin suggests

but, i hope a better solution to the koreans (than making them unplayable) is found