Blue Lotus: Total War

[shifty157]

The question is though what bonuses would they give? These are just some thoughts off the top of my head.

Teracota Army - +1 experience to all troops trained
Golden Pavilion - increases income by 25%.
Elephant Graveyard - Faction may train generic elephant unit. Elephants trained dont run amok (or is this hardcoded?). Otherwise elephants trained get +2 hitpoints.
Gates of the Underworld - required by demons to train troops in any province.
Forbidden City - number of turns to build buildings is reduced by 1. Only affects buildings that take 5 or more turns to build.
Tokugawa Shrine - +20% public order in all cities
Buddha at Bangkok - Two temples may be built in each city (or is this hardcoded at 1?). Otherwise increases effectiveness of religious temples.

[Jay Tee]

If Wonders are included I think that they shouldn't give bonuses that are too high. In fact, I think the Wonders in RTW are somewhat ott. Besides that, they should be spread out more evenly than in RTW, so that every faction can have access to one max in the beginning.

Here are some examples that actually exist in the real world (maybe you prefer imaginary ones for this fantasy mod):

- Great Wall of China: could give some defensive bonus, for example a +1 for defense for all units trained in the province with the wall. Should extent over more than one province but I don't think that will be possible? Not sure either what you should do if different parts of the wall are owned by different factions.
- Taj Mahal: so beautiful that it will attract people from all over the world to see it. Province in which it is situated has a +1 growth bonus
- Tripitaka Koreana: Housed in the halls of Haein Temple, the Koryo Tripitaka (Taejang'kyong) is the most highly regarded woodblock edition among the thirty or so Tripitaka canons existing in the world today because of its enormous size of 80,000 wooden printing blocks and for its accuracy. It is Korean Buddhism's most sacred treasure. It is from the 13th(?) century. See this link for more info: http://www.sutra.re.kr/english/default.asp
- Borobudur: Hugh and beautifully decorated piramid like Budhist temple from the 8-9th century in Indonesia. Makes building temples cheaper? Could be situated on the Monk Island? I think there sould be some kind off temple Wonder on the Monk Island anywayz.
- Angkor Wat: Temple/Mausoleum for Khmer ruler Suryavarman II, situated in Cambodia. 65 meter high piramid with an area of 1 square kilometer. Possible bonus: gives access to a special type of ancilliary if this province is owned.

[blindfaithnogod]

keep the ideas comin guys. i know it helps my motivation and creativity.

[ramareddy]

I like the emphasis you've put on the elephants and the chariot, as they were the priemeir arm of the Indian military in all mythic accounts.

Alright, here are some unit ideas:

I think the bow that the Golden Archer carries should be HUGE. When I say huge, I mean so that the bottom of the bow touches
the ground, as Megasthenes or Arrian said that Indian Longbows did. They can have armor piercing or long-range capabilities
or both.

http://www.krackow.com/asia.html

http://www.angelfire.com/il2/annatar/lbow.html


Also, a Chakra Thrower unit would be very distinctive and add to Indian uniqueness. They would have the range of skirmishing
units in RTW and be very effective against lightly armored troops. you might want to think about making them at the top of the
tech tree or elite or something.


http://www.flight-toys.com/rings/chackrum.html

http://www.whoosh.org/issue8/rudnick6.html



I was thinking for Indian Missile units, and what special abilities they could have that would be distinctly Indian and usable. I think the ability you are looking is called "mantra". In every Indian story there seems to be a hero
that chants a mantra before discharging an arrow or throwing a weapon. It could work like a attack enhancer, making it possible to kill more troops in that single volley. It could also have a effect on enemy morale. I think the
Golden Archers, Chakra Throwers, and Arjuna Chariots should have them. Maybe the Arjuna Chariots should have a more devestating effect, like an explosion.


Maybe you could replace the Tribal Macemen with Vanara Macemen. Vanara are monkey-men, below is a picture of Hanuman, an important of the Ramayana. In the picture, Hanuman is holding a "Gada", a two-handed mace. It's actually very much like the giant macemen you made for a Chinese factions.

http://www.carnaticcorner.com/hig/la-hanuman.jpg


Rakshasa: Indian Demons in every Indian myth I can think of, possibly a rebel faction or part of the demons in your mod.
They could have a wide variety of units.

http://www.vahini.org/ramakataplaatj...ama-ravana.jpg

http://www.familynyou.com/admin/imag...asa%20copy.JPG

[Kageka]

Nice research Ramareddy. Those Chakra throwers would really give some extra spice and character to the Krishnapur. Like the idea alot, hope they include them into the game.

But i don´t agree with you about the hanuman to be included into the Krishnapur army. I don't know if you have read the 'General'-forum yet, but a few days ago I wrote a post about making an entire faction of ape/monkey-men, called Hanuman (or Sun Wukong) after the "monkey god".

I think it would be be intressting with a good/neutral non-human faction. And besides that; the Krishnapur are way to shielded and privilege the way their starting location are now. The Hanuman Kingdom are jungle dewelling and would naturally have their starting location close to the Krishnapur.

Another thing I forgot to write on the Hanuman-post on the 'General'-forum is that to make the Hanuman's culture look different (...and not as a monkey/ape mirror image of the Krishnapurs culture) would be if the inspiration came from the cultures of Sri Lanka, Burma, Thailand and Indonesia. The arcitecture could look like the one i Ankhor Vat. Great temple citys shielded and semi-overgrown by the jungle, protected by the noble children of Hanuman.

Well, I think it could be a cool feature in the world of the Blue Lotus. But that's what I think. I really hope Hoggy & co will consider the possibillity of the Hanuman. If not as an own faction, they could at least be a major part of another faction...

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

It suddenly struck me...what would such battles sound like?

Not just men yelling and howling, but with this mythical component, the battles would have some pretty eery sounds; women wailing, and demons screeching and baying, in defeat or triumph.


Who will come up with such peculiar sound files?


And the music..the music will be very important. Authenitic music few of us have ever heard before unless we are scholars of those obscure cultures.

Please Hoggy, blow us away with really daring choices of authentic and bizarre oriental music...

And someone that is into recording; make some really mind bending battle sound effects. What do ghostly geishas sound like when they're using their socery on the battlefield.

I want to shudder when I hear it...with a cold sweat breaking out..

[hoggy]

ramareddy - top stuff there. I toyed with Chakra throwers when i was thinking about the indian units. I'm going to add them to the Indian army if I get time or possibly as mercenaries in that area.

The Hanuman monkey units will be rebels and mercenaries in the SW section of the map. I can't really afford the amount of extra time involved in having them as a faction sadly.

Ferocious_Imbecile - Yes sound will be important. i'd really like to hear authentic Indian/Japanese/Chinese music and some BL specific SFX. Is there anyone out there with good audio experience and time on there hands?

[Marshal Murat]

In RTW there are plagues.
Could all Demon armies carry the plague, but not really kill them?
If its hardcoded, well to bad, but it would fit that the Demons would have some form of pestilence or otherwise, follow them.

[Bulten]

Will the Indians have som growth bonus beacuase of the kama sutra? ;P

[Bulten]

Will the Indians have som growth bonus beacuase of the kama sutra? ;P

Will the Indians have some growth bonus because of the kama sutra? ;P

[blindfaithnogod]

i dont think we can mod in better sex.

[samthesmart]

Ferocious_Imbecile - Yes sound will be important. i'd really like to hear authentic Indian/Japanese/Chinese music and some BL specific SFX. Is there anyone out there with good audio experience and time on there hands?

Hi all. This is my first post but I've been watching this thread for some time now and I must repeat: your work looks awesome hoggy! ^_^
as for the quote above, I am more then capable of creating some asian music for you. I have instruments for any occasion, and software to record with. (If I can get it to work...) Just ask and I'll record something for you to listen to and see if you like hoggy.
your humble servant,

samthesmart

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

It's been awhile since there's been any activity here; Hoggy has even taken down his excellent graphics.

Let's hope this mod hasn't been abandoned.

[blindfaithnogod]

it definitly has not been. were just finishing up the japanese factions as we speak. there is just not alot to show as of right now.

[hoggy]

Yep, really no need to worry. I'm going through polishing the japanese faction and doing Zensen clan texture variations of all the units, Blindfaith is doing unit cards and a whole bunch of other stuff and Sykotic has nearly finished all the portraits amongst other things. The old screenies are down because when i started i had been using my old Middle Earth total war hosting for the screens but when their site went down I broke the links so I wouldn't draw their bandwidth. Should have more screens after this period of reorganisation but unfortunately there's loads of work to do on the mod that doesn't result in screenshots.

[ramareddy]

hoggy,

If you can, call the "Hanuman" something else. In Indian tradition they are called the Vanara. If anything, use South-East Asia name for them just for more variety.

[Kageka]

Ramareddy
Well you have a good point there. The race of ape men is infact called Vanara. But when I came up with the idea of making an entire faction of these guys I found it proper to call their kingdom after their king/god (and not after their race) - therefor calling them the Hanuman. Another version could have been to call them Sun Wukong wich is the chinese counterpart/version of the monkey diety.

But after I PM´ed Hoggy about the Hanuman (ie Vanara) there is no real point to call these monkey men Hanuman. Hoggy told me that if these guys will be included then they will probably be mercenary units.

So to call them Vanara is probably more fitting than to call them Hanuman or Sun Wukong. Because they aint a kingdom/faction any more, instead they are mercenarys and should be called after their race.

[ramareddy]

Hoggy,

For the Japanese factions, Battle Field Ninja have vote. I'm not sure how Ghurkas will be different, but ninjas are a must. Maybe the japanese factions can have better assassins because they're ninjas? Also, the Yumis that Japanese Archers will use weren't used for volleys I don't think. From what I understand the arrow was released without any angle up or down, parallel to the ground. Maybe the Japanese Archers can have worse range then most archers, but be very accurate and armor penetrating.

Go with the fantasy map.

I'm curious to know if that "Mantra" ability can be given to Indian missile units. We should think of some more special abilities for each faction. I'm sure breaking from RTW special abilities will be refreshing.

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

If the Tibetans are factored in how would that faction work? Is it possible to have a pacifist faction in any Total War game? Could they raise any kind of real miltary force beyond some kind of spies or police type agents and diplomats to be used solely upon the strategy map?

[SingeDebile]

I finely had to get an account here just give you some ideas. Ive been following your progress for sometime now but i couldnt take it. Great job on the mod thus far, you can only hope activision notices you.

Here is my idea. Since your dealing with the supernatural and even the human units are super-human. I figured you could play with the speeds of the units. Ie one type of demon might be really fast, imagine this haord swiftly runinig through a field. Of course you would balence this by say making them tire easily or making them otherwise weak (you could even compliment it with a cool sound effect).

The same goes for unit combat animations. Some of the super strong units that are fewer in number but higher in skill could be represented by exicuting their combat moves with equal speed and grace. Probobly killing one other unit per hit (of course there are say 10:1 so he wouldnt be overpowerd).

Going along this direction you could have a demon unit type that Never tires. Maybe they are slow and expensive but they are tough and quite simply never tire.

Basically I believe that by "playing" with these attributes (someone who kills with almost every hit or someone who blocks almost every hit), and the speed of animations or movement would Greatly Help give a fantastical feel to playing the game. GL
-Yann Schutter

[Zafer]

If the Tibetans are factored in how would that faction work? Is it possible to have a pacifist faction in any Total War game? Could they raise any kind of real miltary force beyond some kind of spies or police type agents and diplomats to be used solely upon the strategy map?

Heh, the Tibetans had an empire too. The notion of of Tibetans being pacifist by nature is very much a Hollywood stereotype. Their empire collapsed in 842. And as recent as 1975 the last CIA-funded Tibetan guerilla bases in northern Nepal were shut down. Believe it or not Tibetans also have a small community of Tibetan Muslims, given official patronage by the 5th Dalai Llama in the 17th century. Anyways

I still think a Turco-Mongol faction is essential in this game, as much if not more an Indian faction.

Uygur Khanate 745-840 AD


Another map showing the Uygur Khanate, Turfan Empire (in red lines), Yellow Uygur Empire (when Uygurs became predominantly Muslim, Buddhist Uygurs were then referred to as "Yellow Uygurs". So the Yellow Uygur Empire is Buddhist). And lastly the Kara-Kitai, another Turkic people who converted to Islam at around 1000 AD.

Most Turkic factions converted to Islam at around 740-1000 AD, I can give you information on their original pagan religion if you wish.

The empire of choice among these to include in Blue Lotus would probably be, in my opinion, the Gök Türk (Tujue) Empire.