Blue Lotus: Total War

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

It suddenly struck me...what would such battles sound like?

Not just men yelling and howling, but with this mythical component, the battles would have some pretty eery sounds; women wailing, and demons screeching and baying, in defeat or triumph.


Who will come up with such peculiar sound files?


And the music..the music will be very important. Authenitic music few of us have ever heard before unless we are scholars of those obscure cultures.

Please Hoggy, blow us away with really daring choices of authentic and bizarre oriental music...

And someone that is into recording; make some really mind bending battle sound effects. What do ghostly geishas sound like when they're using their socery on the battlefield.

I want to shudder when I hear it...with a cold sweat breaking out..

[hoggy]

ramareddy - top stuff there. I toyed with Chakra throwers when i was thinking about the indian units. I'm going to add them to the Indian army if I get time or possibly as mercenaries in that area.

The Hanuman monkey units will be rebels and mercenaries in the SW section of the map. I can't really afford the amount of extra time involved in having them as a faction sadly.

Ferocious_Imbecile - Yes sound will be important. i'd really like to hear authentic Indian/Japanese/Chinese music and some BL specific SFX. Is there anyone out there with good audio experience and time on there hands?

[Marshal Murat]

In RTW there are plagues.
Could all Demon armies carry the plague, but not really kill them?
If its hardcoded, well to bad, but it would fit that the Demons would have some form of pestilence or otherwise, follow them.

[Bulten]

Will the Indians have som growth bonus beacuase of the kama sutra? ;P

[Bulten]

Will the Indians have som growth bonus beacuase of the kama sutra? ;P

Will the Indians have some growth bonus because of the kama sutra? ;P

[blindfaithnogod]

i dont think we can mod in better sex.

[ramareddy]

hoggy,

If you can, call the "Hanuman" something else. In Indian tradition they are called the Vanara. If anything, use South-East Asia name for them just for more variety.

[Kageka]

Ramareddy
Well you have a good point there. The race of ape men is infact called Vanara. But when I came up with the idea of making an entire faction of these guys I found it proper to call their kingdom after their king/god (and not after their race) - therefor calling them the Hanuman. Another version could have been to call them Sun Wukong wich is the chinese counterpart/version of the monkey diety.

But after I PM´ed Hoggy about the Hanuman (ie Vanara) there is no real point to call these monkey men Hanuman. Hoggy told me that if these guys will be included then they will probably be mercenary units.

So to call them Vanara is probably more fitting than to call them Hanuman or Sun Wukong. Because they aint a kingdom/faction any more, instead they are mercenarys and should be called after their race.

[ramareddy]

Hoggy,

For the Japanese factions, Battle Field Ninja have vote. I'm not sure how Ghurkas will be different, but ninjas are a must. Maybe the japanese factions can have better assassins because they're ninjas? Also, the Yumis that Japanese Archers will use weren't used for volleys I don't think. From what I understand the arrow was released without any angle up or down, parallel to the ground. Maybe the Japanese Archers can have worse range then most archers, but be very accurate and armor penetrating.

Go with the fantasy map.

I'm curious to know if that "Mantra" ability can be given to Indian missile units. We should think of some more special abilities for each faction. I'm sure breaking from RTW special abilities will be refreshing.

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

If the Tibetans are factored in how would that faction work? Is it possible to have a pacifist faction in any Total War game? Could they raise any kind of real miltary force beyond some kind of spies or police type agents and diplomats to be used solely upon the strategy map?

[SingeDebile]

I finely had to get an account here just give you some ideas. Ive been following your progress for sometime now but i couldnt take it. Great job on the mod thus far, you can only hope activision notices you.

Here is my idea. Since your dealing with the supernatural and even the human units are super-human. I figured you could play with the speeds of the units. Ie one type of demon might be really fast, imagine this haord swiftly runinig through a field. Of course you would balence this by say making them tire easily or making them otherwise weak (you could even compliment it with a cool sound effect).

The same goes for unit combat animations. Some of the super strong units that are fewer in number but higher in skill could be represented by exicuting their combat moves with equal speed and grace. Probobly killing one other unit per hit (of course there are say 10:1 so he wouldnt be overpowerd).

Going along this direction you could have a demon unit type that Never tires. Maybe they are slow and expensive but they are tough and quite simply never tire.

Basically I believe that by "playing" with these attributes (someone who kills with almost every hit or someone who blocks almost every hit), and the speed of animations or movement would Greatly Help give a fantastical feel to playing the game. GL
-Yann Schutter

[Zafer]

If the Tibetans are factored in how would that faction work? Is it possible to have a pacifist faction in any Total War game? Could they raise any kind of real miltary force beyond some kind of spies or police type agents and diplomats to be used solely upon the strategy map?

Heh, the Tibetans had an empire too. The notion of of Tibetans being pacifist by nature is very much a Hollywood stereotype. Their empire collapsed in 842. And as recent as 1975 the last CIA-funded Tibetan guerilla bases in northern Nepal were shut down. Believe it or not Tibetans also have a small community of Tibetan Muslims, given official patronage by the 5th Dalai Llama in the 17th century. Anyways

I still think a Turco-Mongol faction is essential in this game, as much if not more an Indian faction.

Uygur Khanate 745-840 AD


Another map showing the Uygur Khanate, Turfan Empire (in red lines), Yellow Uygur Empire (when Uygurs became predominantly Muslim, Buddhist Uygurs were then referred to as "Yellow Uygurs". So the Yellow Uygur Empire is Buddhist). And lastly the Kara-Kitai, another Turkic people who converted to Islam at around 1000 AD.

Most Turkic factions converted to Islam at around 740-1000 AD, I can give you information on their original pagan religion if you wish.

The empire of choice among these to include in Blue Lotus would probably be, in my opinion, the Gök Türk (Tujue) Empire.

[ramareddy]

I still think a Turco-Mongol faction is essential in this game, as much if not more an Indian faction.
-Zafer

See, I have to disagree. I think the problem with most ancient/ medeival strategy games is that they COMPLETELY leave out any visage of an Indian influence. South Asian empires are not as well known as others, but that doesn't mean they did nothing, or were uninfluential beyond South Asia. These countries are vastly underrated and under appreciated. Not to mention, in context to the game, India has a much longer history of written folk-lore and myths when compared to pastoralist steppe peoples.

[Meneldil]

Mongols are just as important as indians.
Both of them will be in game, so what's the point ?

[hoggy]

Firstly apologies for slow movement recently, a lot is being done just that a lot of it is behind the scenes nitty gritty stuff. The new patch requires some implimentation for starters. Blindfaithnogod is currently dealing with that and implimenting the current units amongst other things. justmeandthedog is currently writing something to speed up the input of names in the project and Sykotyk Rampage is doing some fantastic demon portraits amongst other things.

Marshal Murat - plague sounds good, not sure if it can be coded though

ramaready - we wont have battlefield ninjas but japanese factions spys may look like ninjas and may possibly add them later as mercenaries

Ferocious_Imbecile - tibettans won't be having their own faction but will be available to chinese factions or as mercenaries

SingeDebile - unfortunately unit speed is tied to the animation speed so it might prove to be too big a job but might be worth a look.

Indians are in as a full faction and Mongols as a mini faction (ie less unit types not smaller)

[Big_John]

problem with plague is that it kills peopel in the cities, so unless you could unbind recruitment from city population, a permanent plague in all demon cities would be bad for their army.. maybe you can give the demons a building that counteracts the plague growth hit? make sure the AI builds it immediately though..

[DragoonXXIV]

I'm pretty sure that only random plague is hard-coded, although it might be posssible to make the demon lands more likely to contract plague. Also why bother leaving it up to the AI to build something, just have the demon lands and neighboring lands start with the super-health (anti-plague) buildings, also it means that demons will have a hard-time recruiting outside of demon-lands as plague will kill of potential population, which i think makes sense. However if demons will have plague i think it will still decimate thier armies.

[Lonely Soldier]

I was just thinking, in regards to the sound, that I have seen reference to Japanese arrow heads having a whistle incorporated into them on occasion. maybe this could be a fear inducing option in place of flaming arrows for some archer unit in the mod.

Hoggy, keep up the incredible work!

[ramareddy]

What's the reasoning behind not having Ninjas? They might not have fit too well in Shogun, but in a game based on Asian fantasy and folklore they are a must for one or both of the the Japanese factions.

[Big_John]

What's the reasoning behind not having Ninjas? They might not have fit too well in Shogun, but in a game based on Asian fantasy and folklore they are a must for one or both of the the Japanese factions.

but how would you implement them? personally, i think a unit of many ninjas fighting like ordinary soldiers on the battlefield would be lame. but i think ninjas as assassins is fine, if unimaginative.

[ramareddy]

Well to be "unimaginative": One would use Ninjas the same way that they were used in Shogun ( or RTW Arcani). How would you use them in Ohio?

Also, I just think it would be interesting if there was some variation in the strategic units between factions. For example, maybe a ninja could be an expensive, experienced assassin or it could be a consolidated assassin-spy. I think in STW there were Shinobi, those were cool. How about a unit strictly to end seiges? A Pathfinder unit with long range sight and ambush spotting capabilities? Think of the possibilities with the Demon faction. A cheap unit that would just be used to prevent the movement of an enemy army. An agent that looked like an army on the strategic map, and would die once an army tried to engage it in battle.

There's only going to be 7 or 8 factions, I think, so we might as well have as much diversity as possible. There is a lot of potential, but come on. Ninjas!

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

Well to be "unimaginative": One would use Ninjas the same way that they were used in Shogun ( or RTW Arcani). How would you use them in Ohio?

Also, I just think it would be interesting if there was some variation in the strategic units between factions. For example, maybe a ninja could be an expensive, experienced assassin or it could be a consolidated assassin-spy. I think in STW there were Shinobi, those were cool. How about a unit strictly to end seiges? A Pathfinder unit with long range sight and ambush spotting capabilities? Think of the possibilities with the Demon faction. A cheap unit that would just be used to prevent the movement of an enemy army. An agent that looked like an army on the strategic map, and would die once an army tried to engage it in battle.

There's only going to be 7 or 8 factions, I think, so we might as well have as much diversity as possible. There is a lot of potential, but come on. Ninjas!

Yeah, I'd really feel sad if Hoggy left out the old Shinobi/Ninja/Battlefield Ninja thing from the old STW game. That was a pretty cool aspect of the game. I loved building tea houses then suddenly having all those shit disturbing spies going around agitating things for my neighbours.

[Big_John]

How would you use them in Ohio?

mostly, i tell my ninja to get more beer while i'm watching the game.. otherwise he usually just sits in his room listening to skynard and getting toked.

[Zanderpants]

I was just thinking, in regards to the sound, that I have seen reference to Japanese arrow heads having a whistle incorporated into them on occasion. maybe this could be a fear inducing option in place of flaming arrows for some archer unit in the mod.

Hoggy, keep up the incredible work!

Those "Tulip bulb" arrow heads were used at the beginning of a battle to alert the gods as to what the humans were about to do. Only one would be fired by each side though.

mostly, i tell my ninja to get more beer while i'm watching the game.. otherwise he usually just sits in his room listening to skynard and getting toked.

HAHAHAHAHAHA. Well at least they'll do it without anbody noticing.....
www.ninjaburger.com

[Paul Peru]

Indians are in as a full faction and Mongols as a mini faction (ie less unit types not smaller)

Oh, please! Can't we have ferocious Mongol Midget Maidens biting demon knees off?

On a more serious note:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=43291

The number of factions is hard-coded, and so are the mappings to the culture types and the behaviour of Roman factions as a group

Were you aware of this? Will Roman, Barbarian, Carthaginian, Greek, Egyptian and Eastern be adaptable to BL's needs?
Luckily Carthaginians are portrayed as quite demonic in RTW

[blindfaithnogod]

yes we were aware of those limits on modding. we do have it all figured out. it does limit use asfar as cultures are concerned. but we have a plan that will work quite well. but thanks for the heads up. we're, to this point, not even using the carthaginians. lucky for us there are enough cultures already built in.

[Martimus]

I know this comment doesn't really contribute to the mod.. and you've heard it before.. but I must say.. that this by far the most original mod that i've seen for any of the TW series.. it's stylish and creative... best of luck on completing it...

[samthesmart]

Ferocious_Imbecile - Yes sound will be important. i'd really like to hear authentic Indian/Japanese/Chinese music and some BL specific SFX. Is there anyone out there with good audio experience and time on there hands?

Hi all. This is my first post but I've been watching this thread for some time now and I must repeat: your work looks awesome hoggy! ^_^
as for the quote above, I am more then capable of creating some asian music for you. I have instruments for any occasion, and software to record with. (If I can get it to work...) Just ask and I'll record something for you to listen to and see if you like hoggy.
your humble servant,

samthesmart

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

It's been awhile since there's been any activity here; Hoggy has even taken down his excellent graphics.

Let's hope this mod hasn't been abandoned.

[blindfaithnogod]

it definitly has not been. were just finishing up the japanese factions as we speak. there is just not alot to show as of right now.