"How to Use Horse Archers" in Rome: Total War

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

Foot archers "leading" targets that aren't moving? That would be a find.

Sorry, I was not clear enough.

In a sense Canta circle are not moving... But in another sense, if one archer target one specific circling horse archer, and assume that he is going to ride straight, all arrows are going to go array. Because Horse Archer are not going straight. by circling around, I wonder if Horse Archer are not fooling foot archer targetting ability.
I don't know how targetting work. does it target the unit leader? The unit in general? Are all archer targetting a specific target? I got no clue.
But I was surprised to see all the arrows landing left of my circling unit.
Does that depend on the rotation sense of the canta circle?

The obvious result was that Horse Archer hits Foot Archer far better than Foot Archer hits Horse Archer.
Foot Archer do better if Horse Archer are not circling... But they still lose.

And yes it's a very significant change from previous TW.

Louis,

PS; test is doable... next week.

[Lord Ovaat]

Having used bows for many years, I'll offer first-hand experience that hitting moving targets is quite difficult. Because of the slow speed of the arrow, and the high trajectory, lead required is nigh impossible to calculate, particularly since targets seldom move directly away, or to the side, but rather at an angle. That said, trying to hit ANYTHING while the shooter is moving is laughable. Horse archers generally fired on the move at mass targets or individuals at close range. And at that they can be leathal. But the damage I've seen in RTW from horse and chariot archers while at a full gallop is absurd. It just ain't that easy. 'Twould be nice to find some happy medium for a change. Volley firing with arrows, then later with firearms, increased the possibility of hits, most notably on masses of troops. Chariot archers in this game, while running around inside a city wall, will still tear my troops up. Really? On the move? Shooting over a wall? I'm just glad this is a game. I guess it is a lot more fun and better to give, rather than receive.

[frogbeastegg]

PS; test is doable... next week.

I'm busy this week too, but next week should be doable for a few hours. I'll add it on to my (getting long) list of things to test with a smurf.

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

I'm busy this week too, but next week should be doable for a few hours. I'll add it on to my (getting long) list of things to test with a smurf.

Errr.... how long is that list?

Can I enroll smurf associate? Does it have to be a test with a smurf? Are we sure test with a smurf are relevant when it comes to games with human?



Louis,

PS; for missile you want to test the range issue? We also need to check the rank thing.

[frogbeastegg]

Off the top of my head:
-missile accuracy at close, medium and long range to see if there really is an accuracy difference as in previous games.
-the cav/inf archer test above
-do formations still 'wrap' around smaller enemy formations? Probably, but does this have the same devastating effect as in MTW?
-slings, arrows and javs - which is best against armour? At what point does a target get so much armour each missile becomes worthless?
-Guard mode when taking charge: useless or was that other test where guard mode made things worse a fluke?
-When facing cavalry with troops like Roman legionaries is it better to hold position or to counter charge? This is assuming there are no pilums to throw.
-Do multiple ranks have an affect on missile accuracy? Can you really get away with 10 ranks as I suspect from my SP experience?

I'm probably missing a few. You know me, the ever curious froggy I'm always endlessly curious about how things work; half of this probably isn't even needed, certainly not for SP and maybe not for MP. The last one kind of answered itself when I had archers 8 ranks deep and firing without any problems at all. Anyway if I work through this list I will only get more questions; that’s how frogs work.

Smurf associates and smurf substitutes are fine, as are frog substitutes. All together our assorted phalanx tests took over two and a half hours spread out over a week, and that's only in-battle time. I really can’t do that kind of thing very often, and I don’t expect you can either.

[Doug-Thompson]

-Do multiple ranks have an affect on missile accuracy? Can you really get away with 10 ranks as I suspect from my SP experience?
... The last one kind of answered itself when I had archers 8 ranks deep and firing without any problems at all.

Exactly; If you have the slightest overlap in too different units, there always seem to be some friendly fire problems. However, if you have one unit that is very, very deep, there do not seem to be such problems.

If any of this is true, "densepack" would reduce the chance of unit-to-unit overlap -- which would reduce friendly fire casualties.

[Dark_Magician]

Cantabrian circle is not for archers, it is for javeliners

[Locklear]

This is all very interesting. I am concerned about the missing "horses are a big target" factor.

One thing I have noticed pertains to leading and range. When archers shoot at targets at the limit of their range, sometimes it seems that even when the target is moving AWAY from them very quickly, the arrows still manage to hit. This would suggest that archers are capable of shooting beyond their maximum range, if leading. This might even be evidence of what some others have described as a "homing" effect. Anyone else notice this?

I would also suggest setting up HA in circle and halting them in a circle. I theorize that foot archers will shoot into the "center of mass" of the unit, missing the horses on the outside; although I haven't tested this myself, I notice that archers tend to shoot at the center of a unit, and outer units quickly shift closer to the center, creating a "shrinking" effect.

Anyway thanks for your efforts froggy.