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Thread: Population Control & City Ecomonic's

  1. #31
    Uber Fowl Member TheDuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Population Control & City Ecomonic's

    Quote Originally Posted by Didz
    Thanks Duck,

    o don't overbuild farms (or build at all if necessary)

    I'm guilty of this as I wanted to maximise revenue and farms bring in more income.

    o use temples that give you law in your outlying districts (to reduce corruption).

    I've been building mostly Temples of Juno. Do temples to foriegn religions still work after you capture a city?

    Demolishing them certainly has a negative effect.

    o build health buildings early (to prevent plague).

    I must admit I have found the plaque to be a useful ally in my current campaign. I've actually been considering spreading it around just to cull the larger cities.

    o Try to get your pop. growth to 0% right around the 24-25K mark in

    Easier said than done, I suspect.

    Looks like I'm trapped in the cycle of engineered rebellions and viscious state retribution then. I'd better set up my extermination armies and start killing civilians.

    Still not sure what the point is in having a city that is producing a -3228 income. If it weren't for the Senate I'd just let the rebels have it.
    First, you're welcome!

    Second, don't worry so much about the negative production value, your total expense load is distributed unevenly over all your cities based on popvalue... just worry that you are getting more money than you are spending.. if you want to know the production breakdowns, go to the city details page.

    As to foreign temples, yes you get the benefit.. but you can't upgrade them. And normally in outlying districts you won't cap a city that has a law based temple, which will really cause your econ loss due to corruption to skyrocket. And once that city grows, you will definitely need an upgraded temple.. and you can only upgrade your own temples.

    When I first take a city I immediately blow away the temple and build my own. I upgrade it to max level before doing anything else. Normally after that its:

    roads
    public health
    market oriented
    docks oriented (i.e., health and trade).

    To manage happiness in the first few turns after taking over a city, I use my army (or its follow on reinforcement stack) as a garrison until happiness has stabilized. Lately I've taken to pre-building stacks of town watch to use as a 'quick garrison' so that my army can keep moving. That works except when you have an extreme happiness problem. In that case you will probably want any beneficial affects of your general in that city until things calm down (assuming he has a reasonable influence score.. the little green wreaths that appear near the top of his detail descriptoin window).

    Hope this helps.. and thanks for the info on demolishing farms.. I tried it last night myself and found out ya can't :(. Normally now the only place I want to demo farms is in captured cities.. I just don't build many myself.
    The Duck

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    they help focus the mind!

    Plan. Improvise as needed.

  2. #32
    Uber Fowl Member TheDuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Population Control & City Ecomonic's

    Quote Originally Posted by Didz
    Yes! but my soldiers are under strict instructions only to spare the most attractive females so any rebirth of the population will be sired by Romans not members of the Popular Peoples Front of Judea.
    LOL!
    The Duck

    Although plans don't survive contact with the enemy,
    they help focus the mind!

    Plan. Improvise as needed.

  3. #33
    Member Member Didz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Population Control & City Ecomonic's

    Quote Originally Posted by *Ringo*
    I hope that helps but i'm not too good at explaining things i'm affraid. In my twisted mind it seemed to make perfect sense!
    *Ringo*
    It would make perfect sense if thats what was happening in the game but as far as I can see it isn't.

    As I have already highlighted with my examples of Thessalonica which had a culture penalty of 40% arising from three buildings Odeon, Agora and Councillor Chamber, which did not change at all after the destruction of two out of the three.

    And Sidon with a culture penalty of 10% despite having six buildings Secret Police HQ, Awesome Temple of Set and the Eygptian Army Barracks, Catapult Range, Elite Cavalry Stables and Armourer. Which once again never changed a jot even after all of them had been demolished.

    So! Where is the link between buildings and cultural penalty?

    Basically, as far as I can see the culture penalty has no relationship at all to the number of buildings in the city and destroying them makes no difference.

    If we look at Sidon in more detail, it has the following buildings:

    Imperial Palace (Roman)
    City Walls (Egyptian)
    Army Barracks (Egyptian)
    Port (Roman)
    Curia (Roman)
    Highways (Roman)
    Awesome Temple of Set (Egyptian)
    Armourer (Egyptian)
    Elite Cavalry Stables (Egyptian)
    Catapult Range (Egyptian)
    Latifundia (Roman)
    City Plumbing (Roman)
    Coliseum (Roman)
    Lundus Magna (Roman)

    That's 8 Roman Buildings and 6 Egyptian, which based on the formula you explain means that it ought to have a culture penalty of 21.4%.

    But its actually 10%, which means that only 2.8 of the Egyptian buildings are actually counting towards a culture penalty. The question is which are they?

    Then compare this with Thessalonica

    Councillors Chambers (Greek)
    City Walls (Greek)
    Army Barracks (Greek)
    Highways (Roman)
    Crop Rotation (Greek)
    Dockyard (Roman)
    Catapult Range (Roman)
    Armourer (Roman)
    Mine (Roman)
    Public Baths (Roman)
    Scriptorium (Roman)
    Awesome Temple of Juno (Roman)
    Arena (Roman)
    Trader (Roman)

    4 Greek Buildings 10 Roman = 14% Culture penalty?

    No the culture penalty in Thessalonica is 35%.

    The only way this makes sense is if not all buildings count, or some buildings count more than others.

    Which begs the question where is this figure coming from then?
    Last edited by Didz; 10-22-2004 at 01:08.
    Didz
    Fortis balore et armis

  4. #34

    Default Re: Population Control & City Ecomonic's

    Quote Originally Posted by Didz
    As I have already highlighted with my examples of Thessalonica which had a culture penalty of 40% arising from three buildings Odeon, Agora and Councillor Chamber, which did not change at all after the destruction of two out of the three.

    And Sidon with a culture penalty of 10% despite having six buildings Secret Police HQ, Awesome Temple of Set and the Eygptian Army Barracks, Catapult Range, Elite Cavalry Stables and Armourer. Which once again never changed a jot even after all of them had been demolished.
    Yes, but have you built some of your own faction buildings in place ?

    Because if there is only three buildings of the native faction, and you destroy two, the one left still represent 100 % of all the buildings.

    I can assure with a 95 % certaintity that replacing all the native buildings by yours make culture penalty disappears.
    But then, I don't really know if it's because there is new, own-faction buildings, or if it's because there is no more any native faction buildings...
    If violence didn't solve your problem... well, you just haven't been violent enough.

  5. #35

    Default Re: Population Control & City Ecomonic's

    Which Middle Eastern cities do you have? If you have the eastern Mediterranean cities and Salamis, they shouldn't be in the negatives at all. Just build ports. Even with tons of unit upkeep and corruption, you should be making a ton on trade.

    I put my capital in Antioch in my Parthian game and it is making over 7000 a turn. So is Jerusalem.

  6. #36
    Member Member *Ringo*'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Population Control & City Ecomonic's

    Quote Originally Posted by Didz
    Which begs the question where is this figure coming from then?
    I have to agree actually Didz, after looking into this more closely there does seem to be more to this subject that meets the eye (or forum even). This thread approaches the same subject, with perhaps the same misinformation, but i do find the figures in RedKnight's post quite interesting. Could it be possible that the cultural penalty is divided between the original buildings when invaded? It seems in RedKnight's case a town invaded had only a governor's building, which resulted in 50% cultural penalty. However, the population was sufficient to upgrade immediately, once complete the cultural penalty was reduce to 0%!! It would also be useful to try and find a definitive list of which building were included in the calculation.

    *Ringo*
    Denuone Latine Loquebar?

  7. #37
    Member Member Didz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Population Control & City Ecomonic's

    Quote Originally Posted by *Ringo*
    I have to agree actually Didz, after looking into this more closely there does seem to be more to this subject that meets the eye (or forum even). This thread approaches the same subject, with perhaps the same misinformation, but i do find the figures in RedKnight's post quite interesting. Could it be possible that the cultural penalty is divided between the original buildings when invaded? It seems in RedKnight's case a town invaded had only a governor's building, which resulted in 50% cultural penalty. However, the population was sufficient to upgrade immediately, once complete the cultural penalty was reduce to 0%!! It would also be useful to try and find a definitive list of which building were included in the calculation.
    *Ringo*
    Good, you see my point and I agree that there must be more to this than a simple building count.

    I accept your suggestion that replacing every foreign building eliminates the culture penalty. That certainly seems to be true in every situation where I have succeeded in doing it. But, I'm not convinced that all the foreign buildings count equally towards the total, or even at all.

    To my mind this is the sort of thing that ought to have been explained in the strategy guide rather than regurgitating 111 pages of unit and building stats which actually contain less information than is available from the unit details in the game itself.

    I think the Prima RTW guide has got to be the worst strategy guide I have ever purchased 187 pages, 111 of which are dumbed down extracts from the game stat screens, a map which is so poorly printed and small as to be totally useless and 45 pages of supposed strategy advice which could easily be gleaned from the in game manual.

    Totalwaste of £12, so don't buy it if you haven't already.
    Didz
    Fortis balore et armis

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