So whats the .org verdict on RTW?

[Mount Suribachi]

As my PC comes remotely near to handling the demo, and I'm too lazy to read all the threads here, I am curious as to how the game actually plays now that its been out a while and you've all had a good chance to play the game, given all the hoo-ha before its release

Summarys from all you expert summarizes much appreciated

[Daevyll]

Once modded to fix the movement and killspeeds it is great fun allround.

Could do with a patch to fix some silly errors and make it a bit harder, but nothing game-ruining.

Overall it's a great game.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

yep, despite all the belly aching that goes on round here it is an awesome game. There are a few little niggles but nothing that really kills the game. I would like to see the move speeds toned down though, you shouldnt have to download a third party patch to stop battles being over in 20 seconds.

[Satyr]

The strategy side is quite good. The battle side sucks. I have yet to lose a battle and I have started sending out quite small stacks to engage full enemy stacks in the hopes that at some point the battles will become challenging. However, when I can slaughter 20 units with only 8 then the AI is seriously stupid. I sure hope they can fix this or I will go back to MTW and hope that some of the other TW type games coming out are better. Too bad about all the bugs too. I am sure glad I had the experience of playing the other CA games though. They were top notch!

[Lonewarrior]

Ye despite so many bugs that eed fixing, overall is good, Im satisfied.

[troymclure]

battles are generally ridiculously easy (as previously stated), the diplomacy is about as broken as MTW; Multiplayer is a mess; the end game is boring and in complete juxtaposition to the time period both archers and cavalry are better than heavy infanty. Still the graphics are brilliant, the campaign map is 10 better than MTW; there are some really nice little details and touches and overall i think it may be one of my favourite games ever.

[The Tuffen]

I'm quite enjoying R:TW although i will have to abandon my latest campaign cos i've got no money and no way to get any more by trade as i'm at war with most factions. I'm really annoyed as i could of completed it but decided i wanted to conquer more than 50 provinces so i let rome rebel when i only needed 3 more.

[Spino]

I must chime in here as well and state my extraordinary satisfaction with Rome Total War. Since it's release I've lost countless hours of my life, completely losing myself in its gameplay. My social life is effectively 'on hold' and the number of items on my 'to do' list continue to grow unchecked. Rome really is one of the best games I've ever played and its strategic/tactical system is the best of its kind. Furthermore the degree to which the game can be modded is astounding. There are already several substantial mods available and the modding community has made great progress deciphering the game's numerous files a scant four weeks after its release! All this bodes well for RTW having a long, fulfilling life on our hard drives.

However with regard to certain issues (i.e. tactical/strategic AI, various bugs, etc.) RTW is somewhat of a step back from the last patched version of MTW:VI. It simply leaves some of us wondering, "Wow! CA simply excelled in doing A, B & C but how on earth did they overlook D, E & F?" Much of the more sensible criticism is aimed at issues which are either not easily modded or are hard coded and unmoddable. Unfortunately, some of these issues could have a profound effect on the long term playability of the game unless they are fixed.

The good news is given CA's track record for implementing fan suggested tweaks and features into previous TW titles there is no reason for any of us to think that this will stop with Rome. I sincerely hope this is the case because I want to play this game for a very, very long time!

If you don't have it, get it, get it NOW!

[Hurin_Rules]

I'd have to say I do really like it.

I was very worried that the battle speeds would screw the game up. The battles ARE too fast, but I'm getting used to it now. I just wish they would tone down the run speeds, and I'd be happy.

The bad:

--Diplomacy is better but still very annoying. It seems really hit or miss.

--Naval warfare is still as frustrating as it was in MTW.

--Interface is a bit crappy; BRING BACK THE SPEED SLIDER PLEASE!

--Some bugs, but hopefully they'll be ironed out.

--Some factions seem so crappy that they are unplayable.


The good:

--Graphics are tremendous.

--I love the system of retainers and leaders.

--The quotes, packaging etc. are top notch.


The Great:

--The strategy map and campaign map are now fully integrated. Hide your troops in the forest, seize the high ground, maneuver reinforcements behind an enemy. FANTASTIC!

--Siege engines. I might get tired of sieges down the line, but the first time I saw the drawbridges of my siege towers slam down onto the walls of Memphis and my Praetorian Cohorts charge over the walls, I almost lost it. Unbelievable.


In all, it is a very good game. I can tell because I can't stop playing, I find myself hopping up and down after winning a desperate battle in Germania and eagerly planning my invasions of Egypt.

[UglyandHasty]

Mixed feelings here....

SP, once speed and killrate tone down, its a great game. A few bugs but nothings that stop you from having a good campaign. Movement on the strat map is the best. I like the way you have to manage your cities to build up an empire. Leaders and retainers system is great. With some mods already on construction, the game have good potential.

MP, i am so disapointed about that.... Just the lobby is a fun breacker. But the worst thing of all thing is that anyone can cheat, and you 'll never know ..... Mp is an unfinish product, not worth STW or MTW.

[MadKow]

Unlike many i don't dislike the tactical battles. I'll agree they could be more challenging but then again i'm playing on medium dificulty. But things like unit speed and kill speed are not half as bad as they felt in the demo.

The strategy side is great in many ways.

The one thing that keeps troubling me is a bit harder to pin down. It concerns replayability and the time frame. I'll try to explain.
In M:TW you had a dozen factions, 3 eras and 2 modes of play. That gave you lots of variants to play with.
Your dinasties could span for over 300 years and you would always have something to look for.
In Rome, Marius reform is likely to happen after what? 80 turns? when it happens you have a technological leap and Bang: end game. Everything is, in some degree, more of the same.

Now i have yet to finish a campaign. In fact i haven't even used the post Marius units a lot (never seen a Testudo ...) so it may turn out diferent. But it feels at this point that the mandatory "conquer all" victory conditions are less than suficient to make me want to try and replay RTW half as much as i did with MTW.

[Sizzlorr]

Get the game. Just. Get. The. Freakin'. Game. Already.

As mentioned above, some people are very unhappy with aspects of the game.

Whatever.

It's like complaining about a small scratch in the paint of an exotic car. It's still an awesome car, and the paint can be buffed out. Hopefully much of what's wrong will be fixed with a patch, if not, I will still be playing this game for a long time yet. There are complexities here that make this game very interesting to play.

Unless you are super-jaded gamer-person with a desire for absolute historical accuracy, there will be some aspect of this game that you will enjoy.

[TheDuck]

Get the game. Just. Get. The. Freakin'. Game. Already.

As mentioned above, some people are very unhappy with aspects of the game.

Whatever.

It's like complaining about a small scratch in the paint of an exotic car. It's still an awesome car, and the paint can be buffed out. Hopefully much of what's wrong will be fixed with a patch, if not, I will still be playing this game for a long time yet. There are complexities here that make this game very interesting to play.

Unless you are super-jaded gamer-person with a desire for absolute historical accuracy, there will be some aspect of this game that you will enjoy.

I'm a classical history freak.

Been playing games intensely since Total Annihilation/Doom days (almost 10 years now).

Played computer games since college (late 70s).

Loved Shogun:TW
Loved Medieval: TW
Adore Rome: TW

The single largest complaint that folks have about this game is the Single Player battle map AI. But I have to say that the battle map AI in the previous games was fairly stupid, as is the AI for every other RTS game I've ever played. AI in RTS games simply cannot substitute for a human intelligence. That is why multiplayer is popular with this type of game.

I've given up a LOT of time to this game, which qualifies it as a classic in my book. The word that comes to mind is 'entranced'.

Buy it. Love it. Go to detox only if your wife threatens divorce.

[Akka]

There is some strange drawbacks from Rome.
Strange and annoying, in the way that they are points that CA managed to do perfectly with MTW, but then downgraded in RTW (missile insane friendly fire and shoot-anywhere attitude, suicide generals, dynasty managing).

There is the AI, that is, even with built-in cheats, unable to oppose the player.

There is the built-in cheats in favour of the AI, and its "typical AI behaviour" that sometimes seriously decrease the pleasure.

And there is some imbalances in units (insane Egyptian Chariots ^^).


But well, that aside... It. Is. Just. So. Great.
Easily the best of the serie.

I just dream they would bring back all the little things that were done better previously, and then the game would reach Heavens.

But even now, in its unperfect shape, Rome is one of the very best game I've ever played. It's been several weeks it's the only game I play (except for a short trip into Dawn of War), and being stickied on a game for more than a handful of days, is something that hadn't happened to me for YEARS. I think that the last time a game passionnated me for such a long time, is way back to Civilization I. Yes, that's long ago. Yes, it's THAT good.

Go for it.

[andrewt]

The good:

-Great concepts and ideas.
-Good execution of the major areas.
-Strategy map is much better. Really, really better.
-Great graphics.
-Some good changes to the way units act. Horse archers can shoot on the go, cavalry can disrupt formations, etc.

The bad:

-Attention to detail. Too many minor bugs in the game.
-Balance isn't good. Heavy infantry is weak. Cavalry, especially charges, are too powerful. There are many units that are either overpriced or underpriced.
-Interface and controls have taken a step back from MTW. Some useful commands aren't there. Some were changed for the worse. It's now a very big pain to move multiple units and have them remain in formation.
-AI is generally worse than in MTW. In tactics, it is a little better, except for your AI-controlled armies. Unit AI is where it has become a lot worse. Fire at will AI is the worst in any TW game so far. Units have more trouble pathfinding. Units have problems following your orders properly and promptly. AI frequently overrides user commands. Cavalry can't chase routers properly.
-Kill speeds are too high. The difference in walking speed vs. running speed is too high. Running speed of all units is way too fast. Cavalry walking speed is slow.

There is bound to be some stuff I've forgotten. Overall, I think Rome is a great game in great need of patching.

[DisruptorX]

Its ok. Its worth playing if its modded. I got a good three weeks out of it, but it feels empty. The strategic map is too shallow, they really should have kept GA mode. The "civilization" aspect of building your cities isn't as satisying in this one.

I'm waiting for mods to make the barbarians worth playing. Right now they are laughably incorrect(not as bad as Egypt, though) and all look the same.

[Doug-Thompson]

This game would be worth the price if all it had was the strategy game.

[frogbeastegg]

RTW has bugs, and some design decisions I am none too fond of. The entire Egyptian faction is such a mess I pretend they don't exist and overall accuracy can get very screwy. There are things in there which irritate me like crazy, things which sadly can't be turned off. MP is terrible. The path finding in big cities is so bad I refuse to fight siege battles if there are stone walls or better present. Some things are counter-intuitive. Most of the voice acting is poor, and the worst instances are unfortunately the lines you hear the most often. The game has had me swearing at the screen several times because of these issues.

I have never played RTW for fun, even my beginner's bumblings were research for my guide. Every single thing I have done in the game has been to research or to test, never just for the heck of it or because I think it could be fun.

BUT, all this said, I have enjoyed myself. The game has produced some memorable moments, some laugh out loud moments, some "Did that really just happen? Wow!" moments. I have never played it for fun, but I have had fun with most of my research. RTW is miles ahead of MTW in my books because I never found MTW to be fun; I found I was only ever only anticipating of getting good units (i.e. the feudal line of units instead of vanilla spearmen), then once I had them I was bored with nothing to do except easy battles against peasant hordes. It took me a long time to realise that I didn’t like MTW; a long time and two guides, but once I did I saw that I never really liked the game in the first place, with the sole exception of the Viking campaign.

I am expecting quite a lot from the next patch, and I see plenty of potential for modding, but as it stands now RTW is fun.

[Dark_Magician]

Estimation based on subjective "number of features", singleplayer

1. "Turn-based-" Strategy

As god as the king of the genre, Civilization, except some features missing like creating cities and manually discovering technologies. This is not necessary in RTW though, as Civ goes for 2000 years and RTW only like 250. Historically as much "real" as CIV - if the were separate award for "realism" RTW would be among the top 3 competitors

2. "Real-time-strategy"

This is actually tactical side, but since Dune and AOE it is called RTS

Allows everything except growing cities on-line. Number of units is enormous, different terrain, cities etc. Has unique morale feature, adding to realism. Beats AOE etc.

3. Castle assaulting/defending - something as own genre, but frequently a part of 2

At least as good as the king of this, Stronghold, having even some features that SH does not have. The cities look more live in SH though with lots of details like appletrees etc.

4. Visual wonders.

Well. Probably beats Doom3 :). If you downscale it to make possible to show like 2000 "monsters" on screen they will surely look such crap that RTW will own it completely.

5. Features of "artificial intelligency"

Only one thing where you could name a number of games with better AI, such as MTW, for example.

Conclusion:

My best in 3 categories ever seen on screen: strategy sim, tactic sim, eyecandy.

One category though average - the AI

[Servius]

just a small thought on the manual, if Activision vetoed a fuller version, why not put the big version online (webpage, pdf, etc.)? I mean, there's a cost to host it, but we have private players here hosting huge mods, so I don't feel a big corp couldn't affort to host a true guide. Personally I think the profit sharing involved with the Prima guide had more to do with it than the size of the box.

[CBR]

Yes I do remember the bit about fewer but more important battles. In the very early part of the campaign that might be true but after that I find myself fighting lots of battles.

The idea about city population limiting unit production is really only there for the tiny villages as you can spit out units from larger cities. I had a dream that would be limiting the number of units a bit but it has no real effect.

Although I never really bothered with MTW SP maybe the 3 hour long battles in MTW were more epic heh


CBR

[Slyspy]

My only disappointment is that despite the graphics and the new strat/tact integration very little has changed compared to STW and MTW.

The AI is just poor and no improvement over MTW. It still sits there being shot to ribbons. It still (more often in fact) sends its generals in suicide attacks making the battles even easier. It still cannot use its navy properly. It seems less likely to build up large powerful stacks preferring many small insigificant armies (except maybe the Roman factions). All too often its Generals wander around by themselves. Friendly fire is now a large problem because your units no longer stop firing when the target isn't clear. They did in the previous games unless you had ordered them to fire. Pathfinding is poor, especially in cities. AI defenders in a siege, especially of low level settlements, will wander around aimless tiring themselves out while getting shot to pieces by your archers. It seems unwilling to wait for its reinforcements, prefering to attck piecemeal even at impossible odds. Even with the standard "AI gets near infinite resources" style "difficulty" settngs it presents little challenge.

On sieges your archers can shoot through/over walls to hit defenders on the ground below, but cannot fire over your own troops without killing a load.

Killing speed I have no problem with, but seeing those phalanxs sprint so quickly and still maintain formation, for example, is crazy. Infantry move speed should be decreased or fatigue increased for running.

Not sure about the "Civilisation" aspect to the strat map. I played those games to death and am now thoughly sick of them so no doubt this colours my judgement.

The voice acting is terrible! The worst has to be the guy shouting about your victory at the end of a battle. Sounds like the teenage guys in the Simpsons whose voice is just breaking. Others sound a bit like Barney.

Music is bland. I expected a dramatic sound, befitting the subject, or something atmospheric like the previous games. Instead we have fairly standard "Civilisation" style tunes with no panache or style.

Wish we could cut down the audio feedback on the strat map.

On the plus side:

I do like the interaction between the strategy and tactical components, but haven't been ambushed yet.

Soldiers suffer fatigue very quickly on steep hills.

In true historical fashion most deaths occur once one side has routed. So there is some realism.

Sieges are a great touch. Now just get the AI to fight them properly.

The graphics a pretty swish, especially the detailed animations.

The bugs are relatively minor and can be generally sorted with drivers and patches.

The dynastic nature of the game is interesting, and the V&V and retinues are fun. Not sure whether they all work though.

The sound effect are good in the tactical battles.

The Senate is well implemented I think.

The speeches can be amusing.

I no longer have to wait ages when pressing ESC to save, load or quit.

I can see how newbies would find it easy to pick up, just wish there were more variables to change for us veterans.

It is fun, but the replay value for me at least is, as it stands, likely to be minimal.

I never much cared for MP with MTW (too amny uber-units etc) though I did enjoy the odd STW match. Shame really since I now have broadband! Anyway I'm not really able to judge that aspect. I know alot of folks are unhappy with it.

To conclude:

Its OK. Not a huge leap over MTW in much other than graphics. If your computer cannot handle it then don't stress about it IMO. I would just be happy if it had an AI that was worth a damn.

[Didz]

just a small thought on the manual, if Activision vetoed a fuller version, why not put the big version online (webpage, pdf, etc.)? I mean, there's a cost to host it, but we have private players here hosting huge mods, so I don't feel a big corp couldn't affort to host a true guide. Personally I think the profit sharing involved with the Prima guide had more to do with it than the size of the box.

The Prima Guide is crap as I have said elsewhere.

187 pages of which:

111 are dumbed down unit and building stats that contain less information than is available from the game itself.

The strategy map is such a small scale and so poorly printed thats its totally useless and illegible.

And the 45 so called guidance pages contain nothing which is not already obvious from the game manual.

Its a complete rip-off and I am serious thinking of taking it back.

If someone publishes a decent strategy guide I would be interested but this Prima thing is just a con-trick to get people to part with more money.

[Doug-Thompson]

Personally I think the profit sharing involved with the Prima guide had more to do with it than the size of the box.

That's a cynical thought. Probably right, too.

[David]

I think its a good game, with some issues. But i dont feel as addicted as with MTW. Ya know, with MTW I planned my entire day so i could play as much as possible. Now its more like, i have nothing to do lets play some RTW.

Still a good game though.

[Jugurtha]

Hmmm, seeing the number of posts you've got I think you probably know what the TW games are about.

This one is no exception. It isn't a military simulator so the AI can do strange things by human standards. But then again, IBM and all its resources are only just getting round to building computers that can beat humans at chess. I don't think you can expect too much from the AI in a game. Having said that, and despite all the "I palyed the game on VH/VH and beat the campaign in 20 turns, using only one unit of peasants" that goes on around here (who and why bothers?) it can provide a challenge. The stacks that you meet are larger and better composed than those in MTW - I haven't seen any significant numbers of peasants. The movement speed and kill speeds are areas some people have issues with, I don't. I was for ever speeding up previous TW games. But that's just me. CA, in their wisdom, have made the game moddable and if these things get to you you can download any number of mods to deal with this or the naval combat, historical "realism", kill speeds, unit speeds or anything you like.

In the meantime the strategic map play is much improved and immediate,

If you liked the previous games get this one there is no reason not to.