So whats the .org verdict on RTW?

[Mount Suribachi]

As my PC comes remotely near to handling the demo, and I'm too lazy to read all the threads here, I am curious as to how the game actually plays now that its been out a while and you've all had a good chance to play the game, given all the hoo-ha before its release

Summarys from all you expert summarizes much appreciated

[Daevyll]

Once modded to fix the movement and killspeeds it is great fun allround.

Could do with a patch to fix some silly errors and make it a bit harder, but nothing game-ruining.

Overall it's a great game.

[Satyr]

The strategy side is quite good. The battle side sucks. I have yet to lose a battle and I have started sending out quite small stacks to engage full enemy stacks in the hopes that at some point the battles will become challenging. However, when I can slaughter 20 units with only 8 then the AI is seriously stupid. I sure hope they can fix this or I will go back to MTW and hope that some of the other TW type games coming out are better. Too bad about all the bugs too. I am sure glad I had the experience of playing the other CA games though. They were top notch!

[Ikken Hisatsu]

yep, despite all the belly aching that goes on round here it is an awesome game. There are a few little niggles but nothing that really kills the game. I would like to see the move speeds toned down though, you shouldnt have to download a third party patch to stop battles being over in 20 seconds.

[Lonewarrior]

Ye despite so many bugs that eed fixing, overall is good, Im satisfied.

[troymclure]

battles are generally ridiculously easy (as previously stated), the diplomacy is about as broken as MTW; Multiplayer is a mess; the end game is boring and in complete juxtaposition to the time period both archers and cavalry are better than heavy infanty. Still the graphics are brilliant, the campaign map is 10 better than MTW; there are some really nice little details and touches and overall i think it may be one of my favourite games ever.

[The Tuffen]

I'm quite enjoying R:TW although i will have to abandon my latest campaign cos i've got no money and no way to get any more by trade as i'm at war with most factions. I'm really annoyed as i could of completed it but decided i wanted to conquer more than 50 provinces so i let rome rebel when i only needed 3 more.

[Spino]

I must chime in here as well and state my extraordinary satisfaction with Rome Total War. Since it's release I've lost countless hours of my life, completely losing myself in its gameplay. My social life is effectively 'on hold' and the number of items on my 'to do' list continue to grow unchecked. Rome really is one of the best games I've ever played and its strategic/tactical system is the best of its kind. Furthermore the degree to which the game can be modded is astounding. There are already several substantial mods available and the modding community has made great progress deciphering the game's numerous files a scant four weeks after its release! All this bodes well for RTW having a long, fulfilling life on our hard drives.

However with regard to certain issues (i.e. tactical/strategic AI, various bugs, etc.) RTW is somewhat of a step back from the last patched version of MTW:VI. It simply leaves some of us wondering, "Wow! CA simply excelled in doing A, B & C but how on earth did they overlook D, E & F?" Much of the more sensible criticism is aimed at issues which are either not easily modded or are hard coded and unmoddable. Unfortunately, some of these issues could have a profound effect on the long term playability of the game unless they are fixed.

The good news is given CA's track record for implementing fan suggested tweaks and features into previous TW titles there is no reason for any of us to think that this will stop with Rome. I sincerely hope this is the case because I want to play this game for a very, very long time!

If you don't have it, get it, get it NOW!

[Hurin_Rules]

I'd have to say I do really like it.

I was very worried that the battle speeds would screw the game up. The battles ARE too fast, but I'm getting used to it now. I just wish they would tone down the run speeds, and I'd be happy.

The bad:

--Diplomacy is better but still very annoying. It seems really hit or miss.

--Naval warfare is still as frustrating as it was in MTW.

--Interface is a bit crappy; BRING BACK THE SPEED SLIDER PLEASE!

--Some bugs, but hopefully they'll be ironed out.

--Some factions seem so crappy that they are unplayable.


The good:

--Graphics are tremendous.

--I love the system of retainers and leaders.

--The quotes, packaging etc. are top notch.


The Great:

--The strategy map and campaign map are now fully integrated. Hide your troops in the forest, seize the high ground, maneuver reinforcements behind an enemy. FANTASTIC!

--Siege engines. I might get tired of sieges down the line, but the first time I saw the drawbridges of my siege towers slam down onto the walls of Memphis and my Praetorian Cohorts charge over the walls, I almost lost it. Unbelievable.


In all, it is a very good game. I can tell because I can't stop playing, I find myself hopping up and down after winning a desperate battle in Germania and eagerly planning my invasions of Egypt.

[Sizzlorr]

Get the game. Just. Get. The. Freakin'. Game. Already.

As mentioned above, some people are very unhappy with aspects of the game.

Whatever.

It's like complaining about a small scratch in the paint of an exotic car. It's still an awesome car, and the paint can be buffed out. Hopefully much of what's wrong will be fixed with a patch, if not, I will still be playing this game for a long time yet. There are complexities here that make this game very interesting to play.

Unless you are super-jaded gamer-person with a desire for absolute historical accuracy, there will be some aspect of this game that you will enjoy.

[UglyandHasty]

Mixed feelings here....

SP, once speed and killrate tone down, its a great game. A few bugs but nothings that stop you from having a good campaign. Movement on the strat map is the best. I like the way you have to manage your cities to build up an empire. Leaders and retainers system is great. With some mods already on construction, the game have good potential.

MP, i am so disapointed about that.... Just the lobby is a fun breacker. But the worst thing of all thing is that anyone can cheat, and you 'll never know ..... Mp is an unfinish product, not worth STW or MTW.

[TheDuck]

Get the game. Just. Get. The. Freakin'. Game. Already.

As mentioned above, some people are very unhappy with aspects of the game.

Whatever.

It's like complaining about a small scratch in the paint of an exotic car. It's still an awesome car, and the paint can be buffed out. Hopefully much of what's wrong will be fixed with a patch, if not, I will still be playing this game for a long time yet. There are complexities here that make this game very interesting to play.

Unless you are super-jaded gamer-person with a desire for absolute historical accuracy, there will be some aspect of this game that you will enjoy.

I'm a classical history freak.

Been playing games intensely since Total Annihilation/Doom days (almost 10 years now).

Played computer games since college (late 70s).

Loved Shogun:TW
Loved Medieval: TW
Adore Rome: TW

The single largest complaint that folks have about this game is the Single Player battle map AI. But I have to say that the battle map AI in the previous games was fairly stupid, as is the AI for every other RTS game I've ever played. AI in RTS games simply cannot substitute for a human intelligence. That is why multiplayer is popular with this type of game.

I've given up a LOT of time to this game, which qualifies it as a classic in my book. The word that comes to mind is 'entranced'.

Buy it. Love it. Go to detox only if your wife threatens divorce.

[Doug-Thompson]

This game would be worth the price if all it had was the strategy game.

[Akka]

There is some strange drawbacks from Rome.
Strange and annoying, in the way that they are points that CA managed to do perfectly with MTW, but then downgraded in RTW (missile insane friendly fire and shoot-anywhere attitude, suicide generals, dynasty managing).

There is the AI, that is, even with built-in cheats, unable to oppose the player.

There is the built-in cheats in favour of the AI, and its "typical AI behaviour" that sometimes seriously decrease the pleasure.

And there is some imbalances in units (insane Egyptian Chariots ^^).


But well, that aside... It. Is. Just. So. Great.
Easily the best of the serie.

I just dream they would bring back all the little things that were done better previously, and then the game would reach Heavens.

But even now, in its unperfect shape, Rome is one of the very best game I've ever played. It's been several weeks it's the only game I play (except for a short trip into Dawn of War), and being stickied on a game for more than a handful of days, is something that hadn't happened to me for YEARS. I think that the last time a game passionnated me for such a long time, is way back to Civilization I. Yes, that's long ago. Yes, it's THAT good.

Go for it.

[andrewt]

The good:

-Great concepts and ideas.
-Good execution of the major areas.
-Strategy map is much better. Really, really better.
-Great graphics.
-Some good changes to the way units act. Horse archers can shoot on the go, cavalry can disrupt formations, etc.

The bad:

-Attention to detail. Too many minor bugs in the game.
-Balance isn't good. Heavy infantry is weak. Cavalry, especially charges, are too powerful. There are many units that are either overpriced or underpriced.
-Interface and controls have taken a step back from MTW. Some useful commands aren't there. Some were changed for the worse. It's now a very big pain to move multiple units and have them remain in formation.
-AI is generally worse than in MTW. In tactics, it is a little better, except for your AI-controlled armies. Unit AI is where it has become a lot worse. Fire at will AI is the worst in any TW game so far. Units have more trouble pathfinding. Units have problems following your orders properly and promptly. AI frequently overrides user commands. Cavalry can't chase routers properly.
-Kill speeds are too high. The difference in walking speed vs. running speed is too high. Running speed of all units is way too fast. Cavalry walking speed is slow.

There is bound to be some stuff I've forgotten. Overall, I think Rome is a great game in great need of patching.

[DisruptorX]

Its ok. Its worth playing if its modded. I got a good three weeks out of it, but it feels empty. The strategic map is too shallow, they really should have kept GA mode. The "civilization" aspect of building your cities isn't as satisying in this one.

I'm waiting for mods to make the barbarians worth playing. Right now they are laughably incorrect(not as bad as Egypt, though) and all look the same.

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

If you play for MP, don't buy it now... Wait to see if bugs are fixed.

Louis,

[MadKow]

Unlike many i don't dislike the tactical battles. I'll agree they could be more challenging but then again i'm playing on medium dificulty. But things like unit speed and kill speed are not half as bad as they felt in the demo.

The strategy side is great in many ways.

The one thing that keeps troubling me is a bit harder to pin down. It concerns replayability and the time frame. I'll try to explain.
In M:TW you had a dozen factions, 3 eras and 2 modes of play. That gave you lots of variants to play with.
Your dinasties could span for over 300 years and you would always have something to look for.
In Rome, Marius reform is likely to happen after what? 80 turns? when it happens you have a technological leap and Bang: end game. Everything is, in some degree, more of the same.

Now i have yet to finish a campaign. In fact i haven't even used the post Marius units a lot (never seen a Testudo ...) so it may turn out diferent. But it feels at this point that the mandatory "conquer all" victory conditions are less than suficient to make me want to try and replay RTW half as much as i did with MTW.

[Sizzlorr]

Unlike many i don't dislike the tactical battles. I'll agree they could be more challenging but then again i'm playing on medium dificulty. But things like unit speed and kill speed are not half as bad as they felt in the demo.

The strategy side is great in many ways.

The one thing that keeps troubling me is a bit harder to pin down. It concerns replayability and the time frame. I'll try to explain.
In M:TW you had a dozen factions, 3 eras and 2 modes of play. That gave you lots of variants to play with.
Your dinasties could span for over 300 years and you would always have something to look for.
In Rome, Marius reform is likely to happen after what? 80 turns? when it happens you have a technological leap and Bang: end game. Everything is, in some degree, more of the same.

Now i have yet to finish a campaign. In fact i haven't even used the post Marius units a lot (never seen a Testudo ...) so it may turn out diferent. But it feels at this point that the mandatory "conquer all" victory conditions are less than suficient to make me want to try and replay RTW half as much as i did with MTW.

You know, as far as replayability goes, I think that you will be surprised. I think that because the strategic aspect is better, you have far more options available than in MTW. You can really play a diplomatic game, or a more economic game, or a straight-up crush everyone with extreme prejudice game. It's your call. And the different factions, each with a different starting position, building and unit tech-trees, augment replayability.

I'm on my second campaign, first as Julii (which failed when I started the civil war because I had neglected my economy), second as Brutii. I'm amazed at how different this campaign is, even though the culture is similar. I am focusing on a diplomatic game, isolating opponents from their allies, and then crushing them, instead of taking them all on at the same time.

Also, try the short campaign the next time. Then if you want to continue, you can.
-Sizzly

[Servius]

Its ok. Its worth playing if its modded. I got a good three weeks out of it, but it feels empty. The strategic map is too shallow, they really should have kept GA mode. The "civilization" aspect of building your cities isn't as satisying in this one.

This sums up how I feel too. I still haven't figured out exactly why yet, but the strat map, while looking nicer, feels hollow to me. I feel unfulfilled when I take a province. Maybe because you never really take a province, you just take the city in it, and you have to put up Watchtowers throughout the interior and I usually put Town Watch-garrisoned Forts up in all the border choke-points so I can feel like I actually have some control over what comes in and out of my land.

Taking cities feels empty too, though I think this is because they're usually more of a hastle to manage than a boon to my empire, and I don't feel like I've actually taken anything because I'm almost always in a constant battle with the citizens of each city, trying to build this or that building to keep them happy or fix this or that problem, or just waiting for them to breed so I can get access to the other buildings I need, etc.

The battle experience is the same. While looking nicer from a graphics standpoint, it feels emptier too. The maps all feel randomly generated, like no bit of land is really any more valuable than another. The terrain is harder to use to your advantage because the lack of landmarks or strategic points (like defendible hillocks, all the hills in RTW seem to big that you can't hold the flanks on them, and so mildly steep that there's almost no reason to bother trying to hold them). Also, the movement and kill speeds are rediculously high AND there's less of a diff between infantry and cav speeds. The interface is worse across the board, the camera feels cluncky...

...blah blah blah. To sum up, the game just feels empty and unfulfilling to me. No other game has made me feel like I was just moving polygons around a grid and doing math equations in my head more than RTW. But for you I say just buy the game and try it out. While it's my personal opinion that RTW is, overall, not as good at MTW, I believe in CA's ability to make it better. I'm just wondering when they're actually going to get around to fixing some of this stuff. For the things that are truely broken, they should fix them. For the things that a lot of folks (but not everyone) have problems with they should just give us the tools or direction we need to mod them.

[ToranagaSama]

Well most of the other posters have covered things pretty good, but, here's my two cents, from my limited personal experience, reading the forum, as well as this thread, the general consensus appears to fall into four basic camps:

1) Noobs, who appear quite satisfied;

2) Non-hardcore Veterans, who, despite some ambigousness, overall are fairly satisfied. The largest complaint is with the walk/kill speed; and

3) Hardcore Veterans, particularly veterans of the latest MedMod, who appreciate the 3D graphics, are somewhat amazed by the new Strat Map, but for the greater part feel the graphics don't really add much to Gameplay. This camp was really looking for RTW to be an extension of the *challenge* presented by MTW/Viking Invaision and its Mods. Unfortuantely, RTW doesn't live up to these expectations. (I really don't see why it's left to Modders to put the game *right*); and

4) MPers, who just like with the release of MTW, are screaming for a Patch (for some of the same reasons)! They did receive a .1 patch, but are still disatisfied.

That said the 3D graphics are beautiful (MUCH better than the Demo), if you have a decent graphics card and can play at a high resolution; and the Strat Map is a wonder to behold. Is the RTW Strat Map better than STW/MTW's parchment map? Good question!

IMO, they are each very good, but effect the game differently in large ways. The Parchment map provides for a more 'Chess-like' game, while the 3D non-Province Map provides for a more Zoomed-In type of a game (hard to describe). I get the feeling of playing in a rather large Province as to playing across most of Europe, along with bits of Africa and Asia.

The battles on the 3D Battle Map, because both the Unit and Game settings CA choose to implement, including walk/run speed, kill speed, and downgraded *Terrain* effects, etc., don't lend themselves to the *High* Tactics, that you may or may not be familiar with playing STW/MTW. High Tactics, of course, appear primarily (though not exclusively) to the Hardcore player.

If you've played and appreciated the wonders of STW and then MTW, all-in-all, you can't help but feeling RTW leaves you feeling kinda flat.

If you've never played a TW game, and load up RTW, then unquestionably you'll think RTW may be the greatest game you've played.

ALSO, be prepared to figure ALOT of the mechanics of the game out for yourself (along with help from the forum), because CA/Activision have not provided documentation to ANY satisfactory degree. CA has advised that the original Manual they provided was *shrunk* down by Activision in order that its size be in accord with the Packaging (of, I believe the Euro version).

Summing up, I'd say that RTW is the result of too many comprises between, improving a proven revolutionary game concept, juxtiposed to the demands of Marketing and Sales. This is quite obvious when comparing vanilla RTW to the Total Realism 2.0 mod for RTW; and, overwhelmingly so, when comparing either to the latest version of the MedMod.

Oh yes, there are more Bugs than in any previous TW game; and the *nuisance* level is much higher than previous TW games. Lots of little Rebel and Barbarian armies to deal with, but, these battles have absolutely NO effect upon the game. Recall those 3 HOUR battles with MTW? No more of that, but now, you'll contend with Ten 30 minutes battles (or less) in three hours; or should that be, Twenty 15 minutes battles in three hours?????

Should you buy it now? If you've got other games of interest to play, then waiting for the *main* patch and/or the Expanison, which is sure to have many changes/fixes, even more so, I'd bet, than VI did, isn't a bad idea. As a TW fan, at some point, you've just got to check it out!!

[Mount Suribachi]

Thanks for all the replies everyone, especially folks like ToranagaSama, old school vets whose opinions I really respect.

To all of those who said "just buy the game already", I would if only my PC could handle the game...my poor ole computer nearly curled up & died when I put the RTW demo CD in. Hell, even MTW plays choppy on my PC

I'd say that RTW is the result of too many comprises between, improving a proven revolutionary game concept, juxtiposed to the demands of Marketing and Sales

I think this was the fear of many of us as RTW was being developed, the first signs of this could be seen in MTW, they were reinforced by VI and confirmed now RTW is out

Maybe EA weren't such bad publishers after all

[ah_dut]

Torangasama, can I just say something, the manual is still too thick to put into the dvd style case, how about this, we kidnap Froggy and bundle her beginner's guide instead of the manual, Okay maybe not the Kidnap bit...
Unfortunately i fit into Torangasama's 3rd category
3) Hardcore Veterans, particularly veterans of the latest MedMod, who appreciate the 3D graphics, are somewhat amazed by the new Strat Map, but for the greater part feel the graphics don't really add much to Gameplay. This camp was really looking for RTW to be an extension of the *challenge* presented by MTW/Viking Invaision and its Mods. Unfortuantely, RTW doesn't live up to these expectations. (I really don't see why it's left to Modders to put the game *right*); and

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

Unfortunately i fit into Torangasama's 3rd category

It could be worse, you could be in the 4th category, and then you're really screwed up...

Louis,

[ah_dut]

Tis true Louis but my comp connected to the web has such a crummy graphics card( it's a notebook) that i haven't experianced your (and the rest of the MP community's) pain

[Daevyll]

3) Hardcore Veterans, particularly veterans of the latest MedMod, who appreciate the 3D graphics, are somewhat amazed by the new Strat Map, but for the greater part feel the graphics don't really add much to Gameplay. This camp was really looking for RTW to be an extension of the *challenge* presented by MTW/Viking Invaision and its Mods. Unfortuantely, RTW doesn't live up to these expectations. (I really don't see why it's left to Modders to put the game *right*)

Counting myself in this category, I must disagree with you.

I did not expect RTW to provide the challenge MTW with Medmod did; I merely expected RTW to deliver the _basis_ for that challenge, and by and large this it has done.

Modders dont need to 'put the game right' for everyone, they just need to put it right for *us*.
MTW without MedMod was accessible to many players, but ultimately far too easy. If RTW has it's own 'MedMod', it will prove even better I'm sure.

[Didz]

My view is slightly more detached that some posted above.

As far as I am concerned the TotalWar series is breaking new ground in the way wargames are presented on the computer.

Whilst other publishers are still grovelling in the restircive mud of hexegrids or wating their time trying to turn wargames into RTS clones CA have managed to produce a system that offers a real hope for the future.

RTW has taken this concept one step further than MTW, which in turn took it one step further from STW.

Yes, it has some bugs and issues but I am comparing it with alternatives like the Battleground Series by John Tiller or that appalling real time abortion 'War and Peace' produced by some French team that deserves to be shot.

Then we have people who sell out to the RTS clowns like Sierra with Lords of the Realm III, which used to be a good game until they got corrupted by the desire to sell into the kiddie market.

Compared to these RTW is a shining light of hope for the futre of computer wargaming. I think its brillaint, buy it.

My only real dissapointment is that we are still waiting for a PBEM variant so we can play each other.

Keep up the good work CA

[hoom]

Its buggy out of the box & has some fantasy stuff that sux, but that is not substantially different to MTW out of the box & likewise, I expect that with patches/expansions/mods this will end up mind blowingly good.
Realism mod 2.2 is a pretty good start.

System requirements to run with everything maxed are pretty steep.
Trying to run a custom battle with huge units, everything else maxed on my new A64 3200+, 1gb ddr400 & 9800np (128mb, think this is the short-fall), I get the 'blah blah more men than your system can handle, blah, performance degradation' message after about 6000 men give or take. (& it does perform pretty badly :( )
This is not to say it looks ugly with stuff turned down though, cos it doesn't.

[Ser Clegane]

Recall those 3 HOUR battles with MTW? No more of that, but now, you'll contend with Ten 30 minutes battles (or less) in three hours; or should that be, Twenty 15 minutes battles in three hours?????

Apart from the kill/movement speed (for which there seems to be a mod to correct it - haven't tried it yet, though) - this is the major gripe I have for RTW.
I recall that several months ago the devs mentioned that there would be less battles in RTW than in MTW, but that these battles would be more important and have a larger overall impact on the game.
So far my feeling is that the opposite is the case - numerous battles, often with small enemy armies that are wandering around the map (I sometimes have the feeling that I am rather fighting a war of attrition than a war with only a few but grand and decisive battles...)

EDIT: Overall I enjoy RTW quite a lot - Mrs. Clegane is not very happy

[Lord of the Isles]

I recall that several months ago the devs mentioned that there would be less battles in RTW than in MTW, but that these battles would be more important and have a larger overall impact on the game.
So far my feeling is that the opposite is the case - numerous battles, often with small enemy armies that are wandering around the map (I sometimes have the feeling that I am rather fighting a war of attrition than a war with only a few but grand and decisive battles...)

Agree. However I have found a solution: bribe both rebels and other factions. In my first few games as Julii and Carthage (R:TR mod) I was struggling with cash but in my latest as Brutii I've discovered the answer. It is Greece. The provinces there seem so much richer than those in the West and North that I'm raking in 15k profit per turn and can afford to bribe almost anything. I've never played Eastern factions but I expect Egypt at least to provide enough cash too.

Not sure what this means in terms of game balance. It feels cheesy but what a relief it is not to have to play out those constant battles (auto-resolve used to help a bit but was dangerous since you often seem to lose key troops like your general or half your elephants).

Back on topic: the game is good. Not as good as I hoped for for the last few years but better than I feared after playing the demo. My advice is to pack Mrs Clegane off on holiday for a week. Mrs Isles has been abroad since Monday: I've hardly slept but it's been worth it.