On social drinkers and deranged generals

**Kekkonen** · 10-21-2004, 07:54

Two questions about v&v's:

1. Do social drinkers inevitably get worse? Two of my faction leader's sons were growing up in the capital under their uncle's tutelage. The uncle picked up the Social Drinker trait at some point, and both of the sons were social drinkers at 16. The other one went and conquered Athens, and he's been living it up there ever since -- and his drinking has gotten worse. Is the other one going to die as an alcoholic as well? Other than his fondness of wine, he's got what it takes to be a fine, upstanding Roman.

2. Can Deranged dads have sane sons? My deranged 24-year-old general just married a 13-year-old. Will their kids also drown spiders in vinegar and later obsess about the pointiness of the pointy things of their troops?

**Captain Fishpants** · 10-21-2004, 08:56

And two answers:

1. Social Drinkers have a chance of getting worse, but they may also turn to the wonderful world of sobriety. There are many ways for a character to pick up poor drinking habits, but the obvious ones are being left, doing nothing, in a town with somewhere that serves drink in copious amounts (hint: which Gods make booze a central part of their faith?). Drinking like a fish is a characteristic that may cause a son to go the other way as he sees his old dad rolling around in his own puke... Not a pleasant image, I admit, but a vivid one.

2. Lunacy in all its many manifestations does not have an inherited component. It's a "nurture" aspect of a character rather than a "nature" one.

**Kekkonen** · 10-21-2004, 10:43

Originally Posted by Captain Fishpants

2. Lunacy in all its many manifestations does not have an inherited component. It's a "nurture" aspect of a character rather than a "nature" one.

Thanks. This is good news. The madman is only in his early 20s, so he could still get a lot worse; and while he's obviously insane, he's not too crazy for military duty (4 stars + 1 against rebels from a retainer). I think I'll keep him as the leader of the MRSU (Mobile Rebel Slaughtering Unit), his battle speeches are amusing.

I didn't know a drinker could sober up in RTW. That's a nice touch too.

**Bob the Insane** · 10-21-2004, 13:45

Originally Posted by Kekkonen

Thanks. This is good news. The madman is only in his early 20s, so he could still get a lot worse; and while he's obviously insane, he's not too crazy for military duty (4 stars + 1 against rebels from a retainer). I think I'll keep him as the leader of the MRSU (Mobile Rebel Slaughtering Unit), his battle speeches are amusing.

I didn't know a drinker could sober up in RTW. That's a nice touch too.

I had a General in my Scipii campaign (I have not finished yet , but he is dead) who was bonkers... Half decent general but if you placed him in a city
as the governor it would almost automatically revolt!!! He spent most of his life as "the Mad" but died with "the Mighty"...

Nothing more annoying than a decent general droping and command star just becuase he has given up have the odd drink with his mates...

**Kekkonen** · 10-21-2004, 14:24

Originally Posted by Bob the Insane

I had a General in my Scipii campaign (I have not finished yet , but he is dead) who was bonkers... Half decent general but if you placed him in a city
as the governor it would almost automatically revolt!!! He spent most of his life as "the Mad" but died with "the Mighty"...

I had a real black sheep of the family in the Julii campaign that I started just to learn the ropes. He was an 8-star general, but it seemed like he had collected almost every vice that doesn't reduce your command rating. He wasn't nuts though -- he was just a pervert. At one point I calculated that if management and influence could go into the negative, he'd have -1 management and something like -5 influence -- and that's with a priest of Jupiter -- and +40% in unrest.

But as I said, he was a hell of a general. He was Amulius Victor after destroying the Gauls, and may have gotten another moniker after single-handedly taking out the Spanish faction.

**Captain Fishpants** · 10-21-2004, 14:29

Originally Posted by Kekkonen

Thanks. This is good news. The madman is only in his early 20s, so he could still get a lot worse; and while he's obviously insane, he's not too crazy for military duty (4 stars + 1 against rebels from a retainer). I think I'll keep him as the leader of the MRSU (Mobile Rebel Slaughtering Unit), his battle speeches are amusing.

I didn't know a drinker could sober up in RTW. That's a nice touch too.

Some vices and virtues have counter-traits. A character who starts to sober up will gradually become less of a drunk and may even go teetotal. It's quite possible for a general to waver in his attachment (or not) to the wine amphora over a number of years. Likewise, it's possible for a (marginal) coward to redeem himself and even become known for his bravery, if he does the right thing often enough.

However - and this is an important "however" - for some traits there's an extreme point at which you can't get back to a normal condition. If a man starts drinking heavily (for example), he can go just that bit too far and never be able to completely kick the habit.

Finally some traits will stop you getting other vices or virtues. The four "humours" or basic character types of classical times are mutually exclusive, for example; a man cannot simultaneously be pious and an atheist; and so forth. There's actually quite a clever system under the hood for VnVs this time, and I think it adds quite a lot of character to the characters!

**HicRic** · 10-21-2004, 15:36

I love the way the traits seem to affect the pre-battle speeches, too. Really helps bring out the character from the traits onto the battlefield (I think the bloodthirsty guys talk about "bathing in blood for a week" and the lunatics talk nonsense?)

My Brutii family are certainly a...colourful bunch of people.

A very nice touch to the game.

**Kekkonen** · 10-21-2004, 16:00

Originally Posted by HicRic

I love the way the traits seem to affect the pre-battle speeches, too. Really helps bring out the character from the traits onto the battlefield (I think the bloodthirsty guys talk about "bathing in blood for a week" and the lunatics talk nonsense?)

Yup. If your general is bloody, you'll hear "I want to see blood! I want to bathe in their blood! I want to bathe in their blood for a week! Now go KILL THEM ALL!!"

Deranged: "...but our pointy things are pointier than theirs. Yes, much pointier..."

Social drinker: "The first man to the enemy gets a jug of my finest wine!"

**TinCow** · 10-21-2004, 15:53

Originally Posted by Captain Fishpants

Finally some traits will stop you getting other vices or virtues. The four "humours" or basic character types of classical times are mutually exclusive, for example; a man cannot simultaneously be pious and an atheist; and so forth. There's actually quite a clever system under the hood for VnVs this time, and I think it adds quite a lot of character to the characters!

I have seen a Spartan Connoisseur. Reading their descriptions, those traits should be mutually exclusive but clearly they are not.

**Slyspy** · 10-22-2004, 03:23

Originally Posted by Captain Fishpants

Finally some traits will stop you getting other vices or virtues. The four "humours" or basic character types of classical times are mutually exclusive, for example; a man cannot simultaneously be pious and an atheist; and so forth. There's actually quite a clever system under the hood for VnVs this time, and I think it adds quite a lot of character to the characters!

Doesn't mean there are no stupid combinations though. I have a (bribed) Gaulish leader who is the "restrained" and subject to "uncontrollable rage" for example and no end of childless "fertile" generals. Guess they have lots of bastards running around heh?