Captain to General

[Bob the Insane]

A little off topic... I have been cultivating my faction heir (Julii game) for a while now... Born with Natural Born General (or somthing like that) he was just one of the numerous grandsons of the faction leader... But this trait meant that when you piled the young generals into an army he would be the one taking command.. 20 years of fighting the Gaul later, kicking them out of northern Italy and securing the borders with forts, and he is a Conquorer, a Ledgendary Commander (the Mighty) then Ledgendary Rome Hero (the Great) and finally Infantry Commander of Genius (the Infantryman!??!?). As he could not really achieve anymore on the battlefield and had picked up the bloodthirsty trait it was time to get him off the battlefield. By this time the orginal faction leader was dead and the first son had taken his place. My cultivated general was the most promising of the next generation so I made him the Heir, at the expense of his own father who had turned into a Dunkard while a Governer...

He is now governing a small city in the hopes of pickig up some management skills and a bit of influence..

I prize adoptions and husbands with influence and management skills most as command skills are pretty easy to pick up... Just place the general in battles you know you will win at first and then much harder fights and make sure he always does some fighting even if it is charging down the last un-routed enemy units... Winning battles gets the Commander traits and personally killing enemy soldiers gets Hero traits (and the bloodthirsty ones too if you are not careful)...

[*Ringo*]

I've often taken men who look like total duffers and made sure they get the chance to crush a few bandits, rebellious poltroons and the like, or made them town governors for a few years. A couple of transferred retainers to offer the right word of advice can make all the difference too.

I totally agree Captain FP, i never refuse generals, at worst they're demoted to wandering the land putting up watchtowers! I do find it extremely annoying tho when you spend the time cultivating a brilliant general, from the age of 16, only to place them in a settlement for one turn then get a crap v&v!! I had three generals all get the same bad vice on the same turn last night. I would like to understand v&v better, as there was no explanation why this happened! I can't remember the exact vice but it was something to do with loving art/the good life and resulted in each general receiving a 20% reduction in bribe costs. Which was nice!

*Ringo*

[Nestor II]

I had a natural born general that was born lazy. So, I kicked him out of the palace and told him to do something with his life. He is still fighting non-stop, he is the faction leader now and he is even more lazy

[Bob the Insane]

I would like to understand v&v better, as there was no explanation why this happened! I can't remember the exact vice but it was something to do with loving art/the good life and resulted in each general receiving a 20% reduction in bribe costs. Which was nice!

Have a read through the export_descr_character_traits.txt file... List the order/scale in which you get VnVs and then all the triggers for the changes...

[Sinner]

Ringo, if you have a large treasury your leaders can pick up vices such as those you've described. There is a 3% chance for each of 5 vices if your treasury is 50000 or greater, 100000 or greater and 150000 or greater. In addition there's an extra Roman-only trigger for a treasury of 50000 or greater, although that's only for one vice. Note that the game checks for each trigger, so if you're Roman with 150000 in the bank, each leader that ends his turn in a settlement has a chance of picking up upto 16 vices!

[Bob the Insane]

so if you're Roman with 150000 in the bank, each leader that ends his turn in a settlement has a chance of picking up upto 16 vices!

Those guys really knew how to have a good time....

[*Ringo*]

Have a read through the export_descr_character_traits.txt file... List the order/scale in which you get VnVs and then all the triggers for the changes...

Cheers Bob, i have read through it but some of the triggers are unclear. I guess i'm just waiting for someone to write a comprehensive list... otherwise i might have to do it myself, if i ever have enough time!

Thx for the useful info Sinner, spot on! In my current game i've just broke the 200,000 denarii mark! Does anyone else find it too easy to make money? I'm playing on hard/hard and after the initial cash flow problems my bank acc. is impossible to spend. I'm getting profits of around 15,000 per turn... if only it were real!

*Ringo*

[Vlad Tzepes]

I had three generals all get the same bad vice on the same turn last night. I would like to understand v&v better, as there was no explanation why this happened! I can't remember the exact vice but it was something to do with loving art/the good life and resulted in each general receiving a 20% reduction in bribe costs. Which was nice!

*Ringo*

Well in MTW the influence of whole v&v system seemed much easier to understand. We had "Expert attacker" or defender, "Good Runner" and "Doubtful courage" and several others. It was clear how it would change a battle. Now there are so many characteristics plus retinues, many contradictory, that it starts to be more maths (adding and extracting influence and management points) than fun. Pretty soon after starting a campaign I quit efforts to understand how it affects the game. And as long as you win battle after battle, as long as your cash is piling up, it gets natural to ignore the v&v system in RTW.

[*Ringo*]

I certainly think you can too many v&v's! Perhaps there should be a limit to the number a character can get, that would make it easier to keep track of. Like you say adding and subtracting characteristics is not too fun!

*Ringo*

[Oleander Ardens]

Perhaps it is also influenced by the distance to the factionleader. At least in my Gaul campaign I always used to get a general when I fought a battle with a captain against the incoming Brutii near Arretium, where my leader was. I did this four times in a row, after that I had more than enough governors. But than again it might be that nobody escaped - Gaul cavalry rules against Roman infantry...

OA

[Bob the Insane]

Well in MTW the influence of whole v&v system seemed much easier to understand. We had "Expert attacker" or defender, "Good Runner" and "Doubtful courage" and several others. It was clear how it would change a battle. Now there are so many characteristics plus retinues, many contradictory, that it starts to be more maths (adding and extracting influence and management points) than fun. Pretty soon after starting a campaign I quit efforts to understand how it affects the game. And as long as you win battle after battle, as long as your cash is piling up, it gets natural to ignore the v&v system in RTW.

I understand what you are saying... It was easy to determine what was what in MTW as there were less VnV (at least individual's appears to have less) and they had a big old effect... You really relied on your King having good stats and VnV's had a big effect on that. This features could very well still be in place in RTW but there are so many numbers floating about that it is hard to deterine...

Does the Influence of your faction leader effect diplomacy?? Or is it just the Influence of the Diplomat in question?? How does the influence of the person the diplomat contacts effect things and does the other faction leader's influence have any effect????

I imagine the features are still all there, but it can be hard to dig through the numbers..

I suppose I picked the worst example, diplomacy... As the effects of Command Stars and (too a lesser extent) Management ratings are pretty obviuos and straight forward... As is influence when keeping a city happy..

Having writen this it occurs to me that things are pretty cool and all these numbers just produce a greater variety and choice of characters in a game...

If you are interested you can follow the lives of your family member and place them where they are best suited, or you can just look at the stat numbers, the choice is yours...

Would still be nice to know if your faction leader's stats had any overall effect on things...

[Slaists]

i've noticed that long term captain "governors" (from towns that you leave without family members for a long time) also turn up on the adoption list. unfortunately, they frequently are pretty old by the time they qualify.

[Slaists]

on training the generals: playing as carthage, send anyone you want to train to sardinia. make sure, they meet scipii, julii hordes outnumbered and in no time you have a 10 star, 3 gold chevron (experience) generals with nice traits (like hero, legendary cavalry commander, victor, etc.) in no time... i did it for all youngsters who had spent a couple turns in an academy in carthage: next stop - sardinia! :)

[Ulstan]

All right, I now have *two* generals each with a heroic - crossed swords victory on the map.

In my opinion, you win one of these, you should automatically become a general. Aren't there only 10 of them on the entire game board?

[TheDuck]

Can non-roman factions get captains promoted, I use captains alot in my Greek campaign but I have not got anyone promoted.

I just had a promotion in a Greek campaign.

3 militia hoplites, 3 peasents

vs.

A pontus army mostly made up of Eastern infantry with some javelin throwers and a unit of heavy cav (general) (1300ish men)

They lost but retreated with all units intact and he got promoted. They killed a lot of guys before retreating (it was the point actually.. the group was just a defensive garrison.. and my main army was 2 turns away.. so I figured a delaying action was in order). I lost like 250, the computer lost about 550. Woohoo!

[Sleepy]

Aren't there only 10 of them on the entire game board?

12

In one campaign I fought a few huge battles which I won well. Did I get a battle memorial? Did I hell! Later that same army under the same general came across a single unit of rebels. So my whole army attacks
I use one unit of archers plus my generals cavalry to utterly destroy them, without loss.

After the battle I get a memorial

Sometimes the logic seems very weird.

[Bob the Insane]

In my Julii campaign I just attacked a rebel army of one peasant unit with one War Dog unit of mine (for a laugh really)...

Battle was a strangly close run thing as the peasants managed to kill all the dog while only taking about 30% casualties and not routing...

I charged in the handlers and they routed the peasants and finished them off... (this is Medium battlemap difficulty by the way...)

Anyway the funny thing is I got to adopt the my Captain after that battle.... Not a bad step up in the world for a former dog handler, I have a mind to make him the faction heir....

[TheDuck]

In my Julii campaign I just attacked a rebel army of one peasant unit with one War Dog unit of mine (for a laugh really)...

Battle was a strangly close run thing as the peasants managed to kill all the dog while only taking about 30% casualties and not routing...

I charged in the handlers and they routed the peasants and finished them off... (this is Medium battlemap difficulty by the way...)

Anyway the funny thing is I got to adopt the my Captain after that battle.... Not a bad step up in the world for a former dog handler, I have a mind to make him the faction heir....

Dog handler to General... biiiiiiiiiiiiig step up!

[lancer63]

Half my generals are field promoted in my Selucian campaing since the royal family tends to get married but most avoid having children at all costs!!
As a fact i get better generals by promotion than by birth rights. That's why I rely on complete stacks of my forces to mere captains.

[LestaT]

Played RTR 5.41 first a couple of weeks ago and I suddenly got loads of promoted captain and I have 4 extra generals to lead for large armies in 4 battlefornts. No city/town are without governors.

The something happend to my pc (my wife did it!) and I have to reformat the hd , reinstall windowns etc from the scratch (no back files or anything as it's just a gaming pc) then started playing new.

NOW all my armies are led by captain. I have so few general which I made governors in hoping they all produce offsprings. Even all the captain won greats battles no one wants to adopt them.

Too bad...

Now I got about 20 towns/cities and about 12 governors. When I check the family tree I see all little offsprings which will takes another 10-15 years to become 'man'.

By that time surely my old governors be gone..


p/s: anyway town watch makes good governor if left in cities for a few years...

[pezhetairoi]

My captains rarely command armies, because every major army always has 2 factioners in command. But once I sent a unit of 136 thracian mercenaries to fight 3 rebel peasant units, I won with 106 left and killed every single rebel. Lentulus Cossus became an adopted member of my family. Based on this and other experiences, it's necessary to win by a very large margin in order to be promoted, heroic victories notwithstanding. After, my Macedonian heroic victories usually involve one unit of levies getting decimated and another cut down to half strength. Heroic only in the sense that defeat was possible. But I actually, once, lost more men than the enemy. Must be a large margin. Also, factioners are proportionate to your territories. If you have too few territories, no matter how many victories your captain earns you, you will not get MOTHs. Not until you expand enough, then try out your captain again.

[Horatius]

The Only Captain I ever got a chance to adopt was a captain in the first campaign I EVER played.

I was the Scipii, and I sent the Captain to win the siege of Athens, and he then defeated two Greek Armies.

I adopted him, and he was very worthy the rest of his life, he didn't get currupt like the rest of the family, or create unrest by entering a city.

He was a "bloodsoaked loony" by the end of his life though, since I sent him to take City after City and do nonstop battles untill he sacked Damascus, was sent to Cyprus and died on the way.

[Krauser]

Playing as the Julii, I hated waiting for family members to be born and come of age so I frequently sent out captains to take new settlements. I got to the point where I had 20 settlements and 10 family members before more starting being born. In a few turns there were like 5 births, and two captains Man of the hour. I also happened to find a rebel army and bribed the general into joining the Julii family. It got more even after that but there were still times where I had too few family members and just used garrisons to keep order.

[Sir Chauncy]

Ah young Padawans! You all seem to be overlooking the most obvious: the number of heirs that you have is linked directed to the number of provinces (cities) that you own. I think that you can have a number of generals is equal to the number of completely controlled provinces plus or minus 2 or 3.

As a result. It is entirely possible that you have Maxed Out the number of family members that you can have and the game simply refuses to spawn any more.

Think of it as a servere empire wide lack of... of... of something that rings true with the above statements and is really comical to end the post with.

*phew*

That was lucky, I don't think anyone noticed that you make a total cock up of that...

[M.T.Cicero]

I played 2 full campaigns (to the ned, not just 50 provinces) and am now to the middle fo the third and I never, ever got a captain to be promoted, how is this possible?

Nevertheless I always have a good number of family members thanks to my hard-working diplomats off in Germania, Scythia, Spain and thanks to fellow Romans Julii and Brutii who's captains are obviously a lot more ambitous (every few turns they get new field-promoted generals, fine 20-year-olds, not very cheap, but worth the price, it's a good way to empty the overflowing treasury and cut down corruption). In my family tree every about fifth person is Roman and it's all swarming of Skunxas and Ugutzs.

[pezhetairoi]

Ugutz is a new name :-P It's precisely because you have so many factioners bribed over that it screwed up your settlement-factioner ratio, and therefore it becomes now impossible to promote a captain. Try to...stop...bribing factioners, and see if it works again. While I'm on your side--i.e. a mass briber of generals myself, but if you want a MOTH, it's incompatible with your *ahem* diplomatic *ahem* practices.

[player1]

Ah young Padawans! You all seem to be overlooking the most obvious: the number of heirs that you have is linked directed to the number of provinces (cities) that you own. I think that you can have a number of generals is equal to the number of completely controlled provinces plus or minus 2 or 3.

As a result. It is entirely possible that you have Maxed Out the number of family members that you can have and the game simply refuses to spawn any more.

Yes that's pretty much true.

Related to this I play a test game with bruti when I didn't conquered any province for 100 years.

One of the thing I noticed is that generals rarely had any childern at all. Somtimes it happends that some generals died from old age before getting any childen.

Luckly usually, when one or two generals die, children start to get born, and marriage proposals become more common.

[M.T.Cicero]

In the end, whatever you do the game makes sure you have just as much factioners as you need. I'll try bribing less in the next campaign just for the sake of seeing some men of the hour.

PS Ugutz is a redhead Spainard (?) curently in charge of Dimmidi. He likes a drink, but thanks to his couselors is an overall pretty fine governor.

[LestaT]

Besides auto calc I have captains promoted a few times when fighting small units rebels. If not mistaken those battles as Romans against peasent rebels. Surely got 'heroic victory' maa...


Anyway since playing RTR I haven't got any sword cross icon after great battles anymore ? Has this feature been deleted from RTR ?

[Gaius Magnus]

Also, factioners are proportionate to your territories. If you have too few territories, no matter how many victories your captain earns you, you will not get MOTHs. Not until you expand enough, then try out your captain again.

That's what I have found. If you don't have a need for more, it generally will not give them to you. Probably so that you can't just spam the map with illegitimate generals.