Captain to General

[*Ringo*]

Just a question. Has anyone refused adoption and then checked out the captain in question afterwards?

Er, no! I have enough trouble getting decent generals without refusing extra ones that turn up unexpectedly.

*Ringo*

[Somebody Else]

I managed to get a man-of-the hour once with a tiny little battle. There was one unit of brigand peasants running about the strategy map. I sent two units of wardogs. No losses, and I got a general out of it. I suppose it was three to one, sort of.

[Captain Fishpants]

Er, no! I have enough trouble getting decent generals without refusing extra ones that turn up unexpectedly.

*Ringo*

Ah, but any general can be improved by sending him out to do stuff!

I've often taken men who look like total duffers and made sure they get the chance to crush a few bandits, rebellious poltroons and the like, or made them town governors for a few years. A couple of transferred retainers to offer the right word of advice can make all the difference too.

With a bit of luck and a following wind (as it were) a good general will result with this kind of personnel management.

[bmolsson]

The retainers are interesting. Must be some kind of superior way to manage them. Haven't figured out how to transfer them long distances though.... Without moving around the generals that is.....

[Bob the Insane]

A little off topic... I have been cultivating my faction heir (Julii game) for a while now... Born with Natural Born General (or somthing like that) he was just one of the numerous grandsons of the faction leader... But this trait meant that when you piled the young generals into an army he would be the one taking command.. 20 years of fighting the Gaul later, kicking them out of northern Italy and securing the borders with forts, and he is a Conquorer, a Ledgendary Commander (the Mighty) then Ledgendary Rome Hero (the Great) and finally Infantry Commander of Genius (the Infantryman!??!?). As he could not really achieve anymore on the battlefield and had picked up the bloodthirsty trait it was time to get him off the battlefield. By this time the orginal faction leader was dead and the first son had taken his place. My cultivated general was the most promising of the next generation so I made him the Heir, at the expense of his own father who had turned into a Dunkard while a Governer...

He is now governing a small city in the hopes of pickig up some management skills and a bit of influence..

I prize adoptions and husbands with influence and management skills most as command skills are pretty easy to pick up... Just place the general in battles you know you will win at first and then much harder fights and make sure he always does some fighting even if it is charging down the last un-routed enemy units... Winning battles gets the Commander traits and personally killing enemy soldiers gets Hero traits (and the bloodthirsty ones too if you are not careful)...

[Slaists]

i've noticed that long term captain "governors" (from towns that you leave without family members for a long time) also turn up on the adoption list. unfortunately, they frequently are pretty old by the time they qualify.

[Slaists]

on training the generals: playing as carthage, send anyone you want to train to sardinia. make sure, they meet scipii, julii hordes outnumbered and in no time you have a 10 star, 3 gold chevron (experience) generals with nice traits (like hero, legendary cavalry commander, victor, etc.) in no time... i did it for all youngsters who had spent a couple turns in an academy in carthage: next stop - sardinia! :)

[Ulstan]

All right, I now have *two* generals each with a heroic - crossed swords victory on the map.

In my opinion, you win one of these, you should automatically become a general. Aren't there only 10 of them on the entire game board?

[Sleepy]

Aren't there only 10 of them on the entire game board?

12

In one campaign I fought a few huge battles which I won well. Did I get a battle memorial? Did I hell! Later that same army under the same general came across a single unit of rebels. So my whole army attacks
I use one unit of archers plus my generals cavalry to utterly destroy them, without loss.

After the battle I get a memorial

Sometimes the logic seems very weird.

[Bob the Insane]

In my Julii campaign I just attacked a rebel army of one peasant unit with one War Dog unit of mine (for a laugh really)...

Battle was a strangly close run thing as the peasants managed to kill all the dog while only taking about 30% casualties and not routing...

I charged in the handlers and they routed the peasants and finished them off... (this is Medium battlemap difficulty by the way...)

Anyway the funny thing is I got to adopt the my Captain after that battle.... Not a bad step up in the world for a former dog handler, I have a mind to make him the faction heir....

[lancer63]

Half my generals are field promoted in my Selucian campaing since the royal family tends to get married but most avoid having children at all costs!!
As a fact i get better generals by promotion than by birth rights. That's why I rely on complete stacks of my forces to mere captains.

[LestaT]

Played RTR 5.41 first a couple of weeks ago and I suddenly got loads of promoted captain and I have 4 extra generals to lead for large armies in 4 battlefornts. No city/town are without governors.

The something happend to my pc (my wife did it!) and I have to reformat the hd , reinstall windowns etc from the scratch (no back files or anything as it's just a gaming pc) then started playing new.

NOW all my armies are led by captain. I have so few general which I made governors in hoping they all produce offsprings. Even all the captain won greats battles no one wants to adopt them.

Too bad...

Now I got about 20 towns/cities and about 12 governors. When I check the family tree I see all little offsprings which will takes another 10-15 years to become 'man'.

By that time surely my old governors be gone..


p/s: anyway town watch makes good governor if left in cities for a few years...

[pezhetairoi]

My captains rarely command armies, because every major army always has 2 factioners in command. But once I sent a unit of 136 thracian mercenaries to fight 3 rebel peasant units, I won with 106 left and killed every single rebel. Lentulus Cossus became an adopted member of my family. Based on this and other experiences, it's necessary to win by a very large margin in order to be promoted, heroic victories notwithstanding. After, my Macedonian heroic victories usually involve one unit of levies getting decimated and another cut down to half strength. Heroic only in the sense that defeat was possible. But I actually, once, lost more men than the enemy. Must be a large margin. Also, factioners are proportionate to your territories. If you have too few territories, no matter how many victories your captain earns you, you will not get MOTHs. Not until you expand enough, then try out your captain again.

[Gaius Magnus]

Also, factioners are proportionate to your territories. If you have too few territories, no matter how many victories your captain earns you, you will not get MOTHs. Not until you expand enough, then try out your captain again.

That's what I have found. If you don't have a need for more, it generally will not give them to you. Probably so that you can't just spam the map with illegitimate generals.

[Slicendice]

Despite what many believe about breeding generals and adopting and promoting all of it is fairly random. The AI will produce generals for you as you need them. If you lose a lot of generals or expand your territory quickly the AI will fill in the gap in leadership for you with adoption and promotion. You may notice that sometimes you cannot bribe a rebel army with a general. The reason is because you already have the maximum amount of generals allowed. Next time you use a captain as an offensive force keep a Diplomat with them and he will reduce the chance of your army being bribed. Works on cities as well.

[blurd01]

i got a guy adopted into my family yesterday which had 4star comand rating and was only 25years old. think it was through a battle where i was outnumbered 1:3 (1k:3k) and he gained me a heroic victory. after that battle i was given a chance to adopt him where i duely complied. people say that when a captain is promoted to general he would remain with his army but i dont think its true as i've finished scipii, juilli, greek and egyptian campaigns(now on carthagians) and my generals adopted or married into the family all appeared in my capital. unless i've never gotten a captain promoted i think a promoted captain would still apear in the capital as a general.

[pezhetairoi]

HEEHEE Seamus, I can see why you threw that challenge at me. :-P Of COURSE i have armies. As Armenia now I have three fullstacks and three more half-stacks running about at Turn 60, and as Greeks I actually, at the height of activity, had 11 fullstack armies and 20 diplomats (mostly bribed) running around.

I'm not just a bribing machine, you know... I'm all for the Integrated Diplomacy approach... sure diplomats are fine for defensive frontier duty, but on attack you always need the arms cos that's the fundamental language of mankind. :) But as you may have read I take up your challenge.

[Caius]

Other Question:
for why a Captain when he was adopted he always is founding to many men of the hour?There are too many Captians to adopt, but they never figthed

[*Ringo*]

I've often taken men who look like total duffers and made sure they get the chance to crush a few bandits, rebellious poltroons and the like, or made them town governors for a few years. A couple of transferred retainers to offer the right word of advice can make all the difference too.

I totally agree Captain FP, i never refuse generals, at worst they're demoted to wandering the land putting up watchtowers! I do find it extremely annoying tho when you spend the time cultivating a brilliant general, from the age of 16, only to place them in a settlement for one turn then get a crap v&v!! I had three generals all get the same bad vice on the same turn last night. I would like to understand v&v better, as there was no explanation why this happened! I can't remember the exact vice but it was something to do with loving art/the good life and resulted in each general receiving a 20% reduction in bribe costs. Which was nice!

*Ringo*

[Nestor II]

I had a natural born general that was born lazy. So, I kicked him out of the palace and told him to do something with his life. He is still fighting non-stop, he is the faction leader now and he is even more lazy

[Bob the Insane]

I would like to understand v&v better, as there was no explanation why this happened! I can't remember the exact vice but it was something to do with loving art/the good life and resulted in each general receiving a 20% reduction in bribe costs. Which was nice!

Have a read through the export_descr_character_traits.txt file... List the order/scale in which you get VnVs and then all the triggers for the changes...

[*Ringo*]

Have a read through the export_descr_character_traits.txt file... List the order/scale in which you get VnVs and then all the triggers for the changes...

Cheers Bob, i have read through it but some of the triggers are unclear. I guess i'm just waiting for someone to write a comprehensive list... otherwise i might have to do it myself, if i ever have enough time!

Thx for the useful info Sinner, spot on! In my current game i've just broke the 200,000 denarii mark! Does anyone else find it too easy to make money? I'm playing on hard/hard and after the initial cash flow problems my bank acc. is impossible to spend. I'm getting profits of around 15,000 per turn... if only it were real!

*Ringo*

[Sinner]

Ringo, if you have a large treasury your leaders can pick up vices such as those you've described. There is a 3% chance for each of 5 vices if your treasury is 50000 or greater, 100000 or greater and 150000 or greater. In addition there's an extra Roman-only trigger for a treasury of 50000 or greater, although that's only for one vice. Note that the game checks for each trigger, so if you're Roman with 150000 in the bank, each leader that ends his turn in a settlement has a chance of picking up upto 16 vices!

[Bob the Insane]

so if you're Roman with 150000 in the bank, each leader that ends his turn in a settlement has a chance of picking up upto 16 vices!

Those guys really knew how to have a good time....

[Vlad Tzepes]

I had three generals all get the same bad vice on the same turn last night. I would like to understand v&v better, as there was no explanation why this happened! I can't remember the exact vice but it was something to do with loving art/the good life and resulted in each general receiving a 20% reduction in bribe costs. Which was nice!

*Ringo*

Well in MTW the influence of whole v&v system seemed much easier to understand. We had "Expert attacker" or defender, "Good Runner" and "Doubtful courage" and several others. It was clear how it would change a battle. Now there are so many characteristics plus retinues, many contradictory, that it starts to be more maths (adding and extracting influence and management points) than fun. Pretty soon after starting a campaign I quit efforts to understand how it affects the game. And as long as you win battle after battle, as long as your cash is piling up, it gets natural to ignore the v&v system in RTW.

[*Ringo*]

I certainly think you can too many v&v's! Perhaps there should be a limit to the number a character can get, that would make it easier to keep track of. Like you say adding and subtracting characteristics is not too fun!

*Ringo*

[Oleander Ardens]

Perhaps it is also influenced by the distance to the factionleader. At least in my Gaul campaign I always used to get a general when I fought a battle with a captain against the incoming Brutii near Arretium, where my leader was. I did this four times in a row, after that I had more than enough governors. But than again it might be that nobody escaped - Gaul cavalry rules against Roman infantry...

OA

[Bob the Insane]

Well in MTW the influence of whole v&v system seemed much easier to understand. We had "Expert attacker" or defender, "Good Runner" and "Doubtful courage" and several others. It was clear how it would change a battle. Now there are so many characteristics plus retinues, many contradictory, that it starts to be more maths (adding and extracting influence and management points) than fun. Pretty soon after starting a campaign I quit efforts to understand how it affects the game. And as long as you win battle after battle, as long as your cash is piling up, it gets natural to ignore the v&v system in RTW.

I understand what you are saying... It was easy to determine what was what in MTW as there were less VnV (at least individual's appears to have less) and they had a big old effect... You really relied on your King having good stats and VnV's had a big effect on that. This features could very well still be in place in RTW but there are so many numbers floating about that it is hard to deterine...

Does the Influence of your faction leader effect diplomacy?? Or is it just the Influence of the Diplomat in question?? How does the influence of the person the diplomat contacts effect things and does the other faction leader's influence have any effect????

I imagine the features are still all there, but it can be hard to dig through the numbers..

I suppose I picked the worst example, diplomacy... As the effects of Command Stars and (too a lesser extent) Management ratings are pretty obviuos and straight forward... As is influence when keeping a city happy..

Having writen this it occurs to me that things are pretty cool and all these numbers just produce a greater variety and choice of characters in a game...

If you are interested you can follow the lives of your family member and place them where they are best suited, or you can just look at the stat numbers, the choice is yours...

Would still be nice to know if your faction leader's stats had any overall effect on things...