Hastati -> Principes -> Triarii

[TopHatJones]

Historically, Hastati were new recruits. Only after gaining experience were they moved up to Principes (by this time they could afford better armor etc) And finally the grizzled veterans were Triarii.

There are also MANY complaints (and I join them) that the later units are outdated too quickly and are therefore unused.

I say, let our new recruits be.....new recruits: Hastati. After gaining experience they could become Principes and later Triarii. That would be ultra-realistic AND solve the problem of the unused units.

Maybe it could be made that later infantry buildings could retrain Principes or Triarii or just give the new recruits one more experience towards promotion due to better training facilities and equipment.

What are your thoughts?

p.s. That being said, I think it is a little rediculous to have valor 0 Prinicpes and Triarii by definition. I'm surprised this system wasn't implemented in the first palce.

[metatron]

I think that's why they went with experience vs. valor intially, but dropped it later on.

[*Ringo*]

I say, let our new recruits be.....new recruits: Hastati. After gaining experience they could become Principes and later Triarii. That would be ultra-realistic AND solve the problem of the unused units.

That is exactly what i was thinking, i logged on to today with the intention of making this same point! Great minds and all that!
I think, like you say, it would eliminate the problems of not getting to use the later units. As an army goes campaigning it could be reinforced by new recruits as the existing units are depleated and merged to form more experienced Principes and so on... after all that's how it work in reality isn't it?

*Ringo*

[CBR]

Well they were divided into age groups IIRC. A newly raised legion could easily have veterans from earlier wars so to say that Hastati were always inexperienced is not true.

Some legions like in the Second Punic War existed for several years so there might not have been much difference in overall experience but they were still called Hastati/Princepes/Triarii. As equipment had to be provided by the soldiers themselves, there would have been some Hastati that was just as well armed as Principes.

One problem in RTW is that the Marian Reforms might not take that long for it to happen. In my campaign I never really got to use Triarii before the event happened.


CBR

[*Ringo*]

One problem in RTW is that the Marian Reforms might not take that long for it to happen. In my campaign I never really got to use Triarii before the event happened.


CBR

I heard somewhere (can't remember exactly where) that in the first patch, CA will put a minimum date for the Marian Reforms as well, to hopefully extend the use of such units.

About the relative experience of Hastati, Principes etc... It was generally the case that Hastati were the youngest troops was it not? So they would naturally have had less opportunity to have gained experience. I'm just suggesting that a unit of Hastati after gaining 3 gold chevrons should have the option to upgrade to Principes and so on...

Just a thought (i really should cut down on those)

*Ringo*

[CBR]

Yeah they should fix it for the patch so thats good.

Yes Hastati would in general have less experience/armor than Principes. But if there hadnt been a war for sometime then both might not have much difference in experience.

In RTW the only difference is 2 less in defense because Hastati have less armor.

But a Legion that had been on campaign for long would still have Hastati even though they were now veterans. RTW doesnt use legions so all we have are the different unit types while we decide the mix and size of the armies.

It just that historically there werent always much difference between Hastati and Princepes so what would be the best for the game? Personally I wouldnt mind if CA had removed the distinctions as they afterall are same type of unit with no differences in special abilities. When I can build Principes I dont build any Hastati as it would be a waste of money.


CBR

[Maedhros]

I've always liked Hastati, they are still very good infantry. Cheaper to build than Principes.

I like a little of both. It is hard to get Principes retrained when on campaign, Hastati are relatively easy. So are a bit more useful as their lines do not remain thinned for long.

[Bob the Insane]

I don't think the game makes to bad a job of things at present...

The fact that you start with Hastatii and have to build up infrastructure for Principes and then Triarii sort of spaces them out, and it is wrong to think that necessarily that a unit of Hastati would go through a process of becoming Principes and the Triarii... It was more likely the individuals moving on and being replaced... I mean you can keep a unit of 100's of years, the soldiers change over time even without combat...

So you can rationalize more experienced soldiers leaving Hastati units to become the core of a new Principe unit etc, etc...

But the arguement that the reforms turn up way to early is totally valid.. Forgotting the historical point of view it is also a complete balls up from a gameplay point of view too as Triarii are out of date as soon as you get them...