Hello everyone!
This thread is dedicated to the the Naval battle changes sub-group.
For those working on this group, start posting your info here, instead of the general EB MOD thread.
Naval battle changes
Hello everyone!
This thread is dedicated to the the Naval battle changes sub-group.
For those working on this group, start posting your info here, instead of the general EB MOD thread.
Last edited by Aymar de Bois Mauri; 10-27-2004 at 17:00.
Re: Naval battle changes
I was told to post naval info here. What exactly are you looking for and how would this relate to game changes as this would help to narrow down research. What CAN be done makes a big difference to what I will look for.
1. Ship types?
2.Naval tactics?
3.Speed/bases/build time/type of lumber used(vulnerability to damage and service life)/regions where resources permit quick build(imported materials always possible but would increase time and cost)
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-- John Stewart Mills
But from the absolute will of an entire people there is no appeal, no redemption, no refuge but treason.
LORD ACTON
Re: Naval battle changes
Sorry for not replying sooner. I was hoping that khelvan could reply better than me, because he is one of the persons working on this.Originally Posted by sharrukin
I think the most important areas should be:
-Relate the RTW ship types to historical ones and see if they have been implemented in a realistic way (not obvious I know), regarding widespread use or not, cost relating to one another, specific use, etc... This should give us an idea of the ship types and their proportion in naval armadas at the time. We'll see if we can implement something similar in the MOD.
-Not specifically naval tactics. See if the automatic naval combat system results are in any way concurrent with battle results in that era of History. Try to find a solution (idea, not technical implementation) to solve the discrepancy.
Re: Naval battle changes
They are not historical but the game stats have to reflect reality, or try to get close. I have a Unit Guide with some of the ship stats put out by SoulFlame V1.1. Are there anymore stats I'm not seeing on that guide which might help, or can you tell me where to look in the files?
1. Can speed be changed from ship type to type or not?
2. Can the zone of influence be changed from type to type?
3. What kind of bonus if any can a ship get through experience/admirals/retinue/etc?
4. Can hidden, or not so hidden resources be attached to provinces?
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-- John Stewart Mills
But from the absolute will of an entire people there is no appeal, no redemption, no refuge but treason.
LORD ACTON
Re: Naval battle changes
Note: I had some ideas I wanted to discuss regarding the implementation of navies in EB, but I was waiting for the passworded forum. Hopefully you will soon have access there, Sharrukin, and we can discuss them.
1) I am not sure of this - it is not defined at the unit level, though there may be a way to change this at the strategic map level. I know you can change the speed of ships as a whole. Whether or not you can do so based on ship type, I am not sure. I haven't looked into it yet.
2) I do not believe so. At least, I too have asked that question more than once and have never received an answer. I hope it will be the case, but I am not counting on it.
3) Ship units receive experience just as ground units do. As far as admirals, I have seen them receive command stars through traits and retinues; I have not tried adding anything other than command stars to an admiral yet.
4) Yes.
Cogita tute
Re: Naval battle changes
I found this over at the Total War Centre. It looks like what I was talking about, but someone with great intellect will need to tell me if it is or not.
I'll go ahead and contribute my movement rate set. What this does is give spies, assassins, and diplomats all varying ranges of movement (diplomats have the most, then spies, then asassins), and then adds a whopping amount of movement to all boats. It's a completely transparent trait (because it's hidden), so it doesn't even show up as listed, and occurs 100% of the time upon agent creation (admirals are agents). If you don't like the amount of movement increase, it's easily changable in 10% increments, where each point is +10%.
to export_descr_character_traits.txt:
CODE
;------------------------------------------
Trait DiplomaticImmunity
Characters diplomat
Hidden
Level DiplomaticImmunity
Description DiplomaticImmunity_desc
EffectsDescription DiplomaticImmunity_effects_desc
Threshold 1
Effect MovementPoints 9
;------------------------------------------
Trait Sneaky
Characters spy
Hidden
Level Sneaky
Description Sneaky_desc
EffectsDescription Sneaky_effects_desc
Threshold 1
Effect MovementPoints 7
;------------------------------------------
Trait NeverSeen
Characters assassin
Hidden
Level DiplomaticImmunity
Description Never_Seen_desc
EffectsDescription Never_Seen_effects_desc
Threshold 1
Effect MovementPoints 5
;------------------------------------------
Trait OceanGoing
Characters admiral
Hidden
Level OceanGoing
Description OceanGoing_desc
EffectsDescription OceanGoing_effects_desc
Threshold 1
Effect MovementPoints 16
The triggers (I simply doubled them up for the agents, so overwrite the existing triggers here):
CODE
;------------------------------------------
Trigger spyinit1
WhenToTest AgentCreated
Condition AgentType = spy
Affects NaturalSpySkill 1 Chance 100
Affects Sneaky 1 Chance 100
Affects GoodConspirator 1 Chance 20
;------------------------------------------
Trigger spyinit2
WhenToTest AgentCreated
Condition AgentType = spy
and Trait NaturalSpySkill = 1
Affects Sneaky 1 Chance 100
Affects NaturalSpySkill 1 Chance 33
;------------------------------------------
Trigger spyinit3
WhenToTest AgentCreated
Condition AgentType = spy
and Trait NaturalSpySkill = 2
Affects Sneaky 1 Chance 100
Affects NaturalSpySkill 1 Chance 20
;------------------------------------------
Trigger diplomatinit1
WhenToTest AgentCreated
Condition AgentType = diplomat
Affects NaturalDiplomatSkill 1 Chance 100
Affects DiplomaticImmunity 1 Chance 100
;------------------------------------------
Trigger diplomatinit2
WhenToTest AgentCreated
Condition AgentType = diplomat
and Trait NaturalDiplomatSkill = 1
Affects DiplomaticImmunity 1 Chance 100
Affects NaturalDiplomatSkill 1 Chance 33
;------------------------------------------
Trigger diplomatinit3
WhenToTest AgentCreated
Condition AgentType = diplomat
and Trait NaturalDiplomatSkill = 2
Affects DiplomaticImmunity 1 Chance 100
Affects NaturalDiplomatSkill 1 Chance 33
;------------------------------------------
Trigger assassininit1
WhenToTest AgentCreated
Condition AgentType = assassin
Affects NaturalAssassinSkill 1 Chance 100
Affects NeverSeen 1 Chance 100
;------------------------------------------
Trigger assassininit2
WhenToTest AgentCreated
Condition AgentType = assassin
and Trait NaturalAssassinSkill = 1
Affects NeverSeen 1 Chance 100
Affects NaturalAssassinSkill 1 Chance 33
;------------------------------------------
Trigger assassininit3
WhenToTest AgentCreated
Condition AgentType = assassin
and Trait NaturalAssassinSkill = 2
Affects NeverSeen 1 Chance 100
Affects NaturalAssassinSkill 1 Chance 33
to export_descr_VnVs_enums.txt:
CODE
OceanGoing
OceanGoing_desc
OceanGoing_effects_desc
Sneaky
Sneaky_desc
Sneaky_effects_desc
NeverSeen
NeverSeen_desc
NeverSeen_effects_desc
DiplomaticImmunity
DiplomaticImmunity_desc
DiplomaticImmunity_effects_desc
and to /text/export_vnvs.txt
CODE
{OceanGoing} Ocean Going
{OceanGoing_desc}
The seas allow the freedom to reach faraway places in a fortnight which would take several months on foot.
{OceanGoing_effects_desc}
+160% to movement on the sea
¬--------------------
{Sneaky} Sneaky
{Sneaky_desc}
This man knows how to travel lightly and silently.
{Sneaky_effects_desc}
+70% to movement
¬--------------------
{DiplomaticImmunity} Diplomatic Immunity
{DiplomaticImmunity_desc}
Guards and borders mean nothing to this man.
{DiplomaticImmunity_effects_desc}
+90% to movement
¬--------------------
{NeverSeen} Never Seen
{NeverSeen_desc}
Those who travel alone travel quickest.
{NeverSeen_effects_desc}
+50% to movement
The text files are there in case you wanted to make them standard (non-hidden) traits. I chose 160% for admirals because at my action point level (105), it just barely allows a ship to go from Carthage to Corduba in 2 turns. I thought that was a pretty good yardstick for ship travel. Anyway, I think this perhaps the best way to give individual unit types their own movement range--I know this has been a sticking point about the game for me as well as a lot of other people, so I hope this works out for everyone.
The only catch here is that you need to add these traits to existing admirals, spies, and diplomats in your descr_strat.txt folder, because the trigger is unit creation. I'm not going to bother posting my descr_strat file here because we all probably have different ones by now.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-- John Stewart Mills
But from the absolute will of an entire people there is no appeal, no redemption, no refuge but treason.
LORD ACTON
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