Unit Screenshots

[PROMETHEUS]

Early legion , some small touch up made....



Samnite Gladiator final version




Centurion early



Centurion late....

[Parmenio]

Looks lush Prometheus :)

The red trim on the Late Centurion scale maybe could use some shading to make it stand out against the red tunic. I don't know if you want to give the Centurions their rods of office?

Btw, what are fonts?

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Some image in action of new units.....

...

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Unfortunatelly, the colour of the Liby-Phoenician Infantry's tunic is wrong. And the shield should not have the Greek pattern.




Having linen or leather shoulder pads on a metal cuirass is like having cycle tires on a M1 Abrahams. And the Roman helm should have a different angle for the neck guard.




On the back of cuirass near the neck, between the shoulder pads it is dark. Why?




Hastati do not have shield patterns?





Unfortunatelly, the shield of the Celtiberian is wrong. They didn't use this shield. It was one of Celtic design, quite a lot more oval and straight.

[Steppe Merc]

What's with all the Roman units? I mean I know some people might think that they're important, but their the most historically correct faction in the game to begin with! Can't we focus on fixing the mockeries before tweaking the boring Romans? Their has been no work done on the Parthians or Scythians, so why are people making changes to the Romans?
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I just don't get it. Their are far more pressing and interesting units to be fixed than the Romans.

[Vercingetorix]

True, but in the end they'll all get done

[Ranika]

The Romans may be the most accurate, but still need corrections, and the corrections should be relatively quick and easy to do. And some one needs to do them eventually anyway, and if that's what Prom feels like doing, then all the better, gets them out of the way, and then we can focus on the other factions.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

What's with all the Roman units? I mean I know some people might think that they're important, but their the most historically correct faction in the game to begin with! Can't we focus on fixing the mockeries before tweaking the boring Romans? Their has been no work done on the Parthians or Scythians, so why are people making changes to the Romans?
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I just don't get it. Their are far more pressing and interesting units to be fixed than the Romans.

Because PROMETHEUS is Roman...

[Little Legioner]

Guys dont be so harsh critisize Prometheus. You have correct opinions on screens. Works are really good and very close to osprey prints as a reference.

Aymar can you be a roman centurion reincarnate

[DemonArchangel]

Alriteee....
The early centurion should have mail shoulder guards.
Also, don't centurions have the scabbards on the left?

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Guys dont be so harsh critisize Prometheus. You have correct opinions on screens. Works are really good and very close to osprey prints as a reference.

But when Osprey prints conflict with Historical excerpts, they are wrong. Some of the Osprey plates have a bit of artistic licence. That is so in this case and according to what I mentioned in the pictures.

Aymar can you be a roman centurion reincarnate

I wasn't being sarcastic. PROMETHEUS IS form the city of ROME.

[PSYCHO V]

I understand where Steps coming from but having played with Proms Roman units, they really are a great addition. They look more accurate and are much much better than the originals. Stunning stuff

Prom pretty much finished them so there's not much of a problem imho.
The only minor things that concern me are:

1) The silver bits all over the late centurions lower tunic. What are these?
2) The mask for the standard bearer. IMO, there should be three skins for the Roman standard bearer. Republican, Early Legionary and Imperial / Late Legionary. This can be done without using additional unit spots right? Also, the mask, if used should only be for the Imperial (and the eyes need to be closer set..seems distorted).

my2bob

[PSYCHO V]

Alriteee....
The early centurion should have mail shoulder guards.

No, I believe this is correct

[khelvan]

Keep this in mind if you seem concerned at how screenshots are being replied to:

First, many of our skinners are posting their alpha/beta shots here in this forum, both to get the type of criticism that is being supplied and to tease people with the sort of units we are working on. Constructive criticism is a necessary part of the process of building an EB unit, so that everyone has a chance to comment on what should be changed and, especially, -why-. It is ok to state that a unit is not depicted correctly, though where disputes arise quoting sources is necessary.

Second, we have a lot of people from a lot of different cultures here. North Americans expect someone to give constructive criticism in this sort of manner: "Well, the unit looks great! I would just suggest one or two things..." However, I have seen one of our members from Russia both give responses and expect them this way: "The unit is completely wrong, it needs to be this way!" I assume from our interaction that evaluation of other people's work is handled -very- differently in Russia - what we in America would consider brutally honest without an American sense of courtesy. (I hope you don't mind me using you as an example, DM!)

So just keep these in mind when reading or writing responses. We have people from all over the world, just give each other the benefit of the doubt and assume everyone is trying to help each other before assuming anything else.

Cheers!

[PROMETHEUS]

First , I posted some action pics just for fun not to show them to be criticized since most of them are already aknowledge by Urnamma and me so We know what is to change and what is not .....this was just a show.... when i post instead here pics is for new units that I completed and so those should be criticized


but since some critics comed anyway i will answer here....

Unfortunatelly, the colour of the Liby-Phoenician Infantry's tunic is wrong. And the shield should not have the Greek pattern.

Accordinf to Urnamma discussions the color is fine , the pattern is wrong ...

Having linen or leather shoulder pads on a metal cuirass is like having cycle tires on a M1 Abrahams. And the Roman helm should have a different angle for the neck guard.

that is still your personal opinion on wich Urnamma doesn't agree , I personally know that shoulder pads were used and posted some pics too for thi but I will leave the decision to Urnamma here since is his unit...

On the back of cuirass near the neck, between the shoulder pads it is dark. Why?

? What? Oh if u refer to the back of the Sacred Band phalanx is the hairs long and dark and linked by a little strap of leather but since the sun is on the otherside it looks darker....

Hastati do not have shield patterns?

that is an experiment , to make them look more close to original sculptures where no patterns are visible , I tought I could leave the patterns for the richer and more heavy dressed units....still to be decided tough...

Unfortunatelly, the shield of the Celtiberian is wrong. They didn't use this shield. It was one of Celtic design, quite a lot more oval and straight.

I followed always the same pattern of Osprey , I haven't seen any other plate even from other sources than osprey were other shields are used by this particular unit and all the scutarii or heavy inf seemed to use this one ,I'll ask urnammba about it tough.... about the roundness I think u are right.... and also the used a javelin and not a spear no?
__________________

The early centurion should have mail shoulder guards.
Also, don't centurions have the scabbards on the left?

I made like this since in some representations the triarii do have this pattern onthe mail shoulder so I assumed the centurion to distinguish himself could use it as well My idea could be that since little is known about early and later triarii we could give the later the shield pattern , the 3 feathers and the patternon shoulder , differently from the earlier ones or a compromise between them .... few would have changed instead for the others but the shield pattern may be .....

Also I think you are right about the centurions to keep their scabbard tothe left , but were the pugio then?

-------------------------

1) The silver bits all over the late centurions lower tunic. What are these?

? I don't understand what u refer to , probably the scale mail?

2) The mask for the standard bearer. IMO, there should be three skins for the Roman standard bearer. Republican, Early Legionary and Imperial / Late Legionary. This can be done without using additional unit spots right?

I think so but the early legionary and the republica would differ few and I already made ingame , just not depicted well by any pic....

Also, the mask, if used should only be for the Imperial (and the eyes need to be closer set..seems distorted).

early imperial time like the segmentata units and the scale suit centurions... will fix the eye thing....

What's with all the Roman units? I mean I know some people might think that they're important, but their the most historically correct faction in the game to begin with! Can't we focus on fixing the mockeries before tweaking the boring Romans? Their has been no work done on the Parthians or Scythians, so why are people making changes to the Romans?
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I just don't get it. Their are far more pressing and interesting units to be fixed than the Romans.

Becouse I wanted to make a movie of the carthaginian battle of Cannae , so I needed romans too....

Because PROMETHEUS is Roman...

U accusing me of Factionism...???
This has nothing to do from were I am from infact If you remember I made and completed the full Scythian faction befoure making the romans , but I discarded since was judged not appropiate to the mod and not too realistically close to originals.....

But when Osprey prints conflict with Historical excerpts, they are wrong. Some of the Osprey plates have a bit of artistic licence. That is so in this case and according to what I mentioned in the pictures.

Often the Osprey writere are historical experts who have spent lot of time studiing thos things and so I thrust them in many ways , an example is ... the praetorian guards , there are descriptions of them sculpted in marble dressing metal cuirass like CA did , but the Osprey books describe them with segmentata or other armours couse of deeper historical sources , so is not a free artist license at all , it is a work made in conjunction between the writers historical and the artist.....

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I followed always the same pattern of Osprey , I haven't seen any other plate even from other sources than osprey were other shields are used by this particular unit and all the scutarii or heavy inf seemed to use this one ,I'll ask urnammba about it tough.... about the roundness I think u are right.... and also the used a javelin and not a spear no?

I have seen this shield pattern in other books as well. I have a number of books by a writer called Tim Newark working for blandford publishing, a particular plate showing a iberian celts attacking a roman fort. A light infantry man was armed with a shield identical to this armed with javelins.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

First , I posted some action pics just for fun not to show them to be criticized since most of them are already aknowledge by Urnamma and me so We know what is to change and what is not .....this was just a show.... when i post instead here pics is for new units that I completed and so those should be criticized

This is the Unit Sceeenshots thread. Lets us not spread to thin...

According to Urnamma discussions the color is fine , the pattern is wrong ...

That is not what he told me.

that is still your personal opinion on wich Urnamma doesn't agree , I personally know that shoulder pads were used and posted some pics too for thi but I will leave the decision to Urnamma here since is his unit...

It is not my personal oppinion. I've shown you several depictions of Roman and Greek sources, and it was quite obvious that Metal Cuirasses hadn't Leather or Linen shoulder pads. They didn't had shoulder pads at all, or, at the most, they had Imitation shoulder pads made of METAL. I said a couple of times: "If you want to make shoulder guards to the cuirass, at least make them in METAL!!!"

? What? Oh if u refer to the back of the Sacred Band phalanx is the hairs long and dark and linked by a little strap of leather but since the sun is on the otherside it looks darker....

OK. I couldn't distiguish the hair...

that is an experiment , to make them look more close to original sculptures where no patterns are visible , I tought I could leave the patterns for the richer and more heavy dressed units....still to be decided tough...

Ok. Fair enough.

I followed always the same pattern of Osprey , I haven't seen any other plate even from other sources than osprey were other shields are used by this particular unit and all the scutarii or heavy inf seemed to use this one ,I'll ask urnammba about it tough.... about the roundness I think u are right.... and also the used a javelin and not a spear no?

It's not the pattern!!! It's the shape I'm talking about!!! The Celtiberian shields are not Roman shields!!!

Here are some pics:









Are these enough for you???

U accusing me of Factionism...???
This has nothing to do from were I am from infact If you remember I made and completed the full Scythian faction befoure making the romans , but I discarded since was judged not appropiate to the mod and not too realistically close to originals.....

Why do people think I'm accusing anyone of anything???!!!! I was stating that, since you're from Rome, you would prefer to do the Romans before the others. I'm doing the same!!! I'll do the Iberians first because I feel the need to make them before the other units that I will eventually work upon. It has nothing to do with Factionism, it has to do with personal taste.

Don't misinterpret what I say...

Often the Osprey writere are historical experts who have spent lot of time studiing thos things and so I thrust them in many ways , an example is ... the praetorian guards , there are descriptions of them sculpted in marble dressing metal cuirass like CA did , but the Osprey books describe them with segmentata or other armours couse of deeper historical sources , so is not a free artist license at all , it is a work made in conjunction between the writers historical and the artist.....

Yes. But you have Urnamma (who is an Academic Schoolar specialized in North African and Eastern Ancient History) to comment Osprey's Historical accuracy. It is good but it has flaws too. Urnamma (and a lot of others) have refered that: "If it conflicts with historical excerpts, then it's wrong. Period." And do you know what? They are right.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

I have seen this shield pattern in other books as well. I have a number of books by a writer called Tim Newark working for blandford publishing, a particular plate showing a iberian celts attacking a roman fort. A light infantry man was armed with a shield identical to this armed with javelins.

Are we all speaking English or not? Where did I say that the pattern was wrong? The shield's shape is wrong!!! Not the pattern!!!

Read carefully before you post.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Alright geezer calm down, i know what you said, to be honest i just said i'd seen the pattern before, i didn't say anything about your post or say you were wrong in anyway so go easy mate, no need to blow your stack. Jesus

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Alright geezer calm down, i know what you said, to be honest i just said i'd seen the pattern before, i didn't say anything about your post or say you were wrong in anyway so go easy mate, no need to blow your stack. Jesus

Sorry. I got irritated for no reason. I apologize. I'm a bit stressed...

[PROMETHEUS]

Are we all speaking English or not? Where did I say that the pattern was wrong? The shield's shape is wrong!!! Not the pattern!!!

Read carefully before you post.

Yes and may be you need a couple of glasses tooo?
look here is my previously quoted by u sentence....

.... about the roundness I think u are right....

can u read it now?

Here is instead the Belgae warband asked me by Psicho V , steel needing some work tough ...

[khelvan]

Ahh, I see things are back to normal. I am playing peacekeeper and Aymar is blowing his lid over nothing!

Aymar, this is getting -far- too involved for the screenshot thread anyways, let's move this to the threads for the appropriate factions. Besides, that way you can let your temper loose on people who are used to it already, not the unsuspecting public!

You too, Prometheus. Let's try to keep this as uncluttered as possible so people don't have to wade through all sorts of discussion to get to the screenshots, which is what they're here for :)

(And yes, I am aware of why you're responding, I just ask the responses get moved to the appropriate faction threads)

[Ranika]

The Belgae look good, but their shields are too rounded, they carried more angular shields, and one skin of them would have dark blue body paint (Briton Belgae, Gallic Belgae should lack the paint). Pyscho V posted a picture of a model of a Belgae warrior, the Briton should have similar paint designs.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Yes and may be you need a couple of glasses tooo?
look here is my previously quoted by u sentence....

can u read it now?

I read it before pretty well. I was replying to Blind King of Bohemia, not to you.

BTW, the Belgae looks good, but shouldn't the hair and moustache be a bit blonder?

[PROMETHEUS]

Ok what about this?

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

That fast? Great work!!!

[Ranika]

Good, but darken the paint more. The Belgae added a copper solution to their woad, which darkened it to a deep, dark blue, but the designs are very good. The only other request is a variation in tartan colors for the pants between the Gauls and Britons, but that can wait (I imagine it must take longer).

[PROMETHEUS]

The only other request is a variation in tartan colors for the pants between the Gauls and Britons, but that can wait (I imagine it must take longer).

What you mean ? isn't the tartan good?

[Ranika]

The tartan is great, but the Gallic Belgae and Briton Belgae would probably have a variation of colors. I'd suggest blue in place of the yellow, since the southern Britons and the associated Belgic tribes used more blue dyes. However, not the 'Briton' blue from vanilla, they would use a darker blue, almost purple color.

That and the Belgae are for both Gauls and Britons, and Belgic peoples in each one would look a bit different, due to the dyes available (and British Belgic tribes would paint themselves but Gallic Belgic tribes would not).

[PROMETHEUS]

retattooes...