Unit Screenshots

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

And here is how should be , I used the dress colour s of Agrippa , I hope He won't mind since this way it will blend better with his own.....

still some small detail to fix but more or less done I hope you like this time ....

I like them very much.

Only one detail. The Hastati should have, on the shoulder, a similar leather strap strap to the ones on the sides, shouldn't they?

BTW, we will need three new Roman units that only need new textures. I'll PM you with the details tomorrow.

[Stormy]

Great work once again PROMETEUS Are you going to change the men ontop of the elephant also ? I think it will be nice also.


Agrippa !!!!! Agrippa!!! Agrippa!!!! joins the roster ?

You lads are going to make this game very addicting.

[Stormy]

African forest elephant


Carthaginians



Carthaginians
The Elephant crew


Editor's notes: All texts that I've read on the North African forest elephant Loxodonta africana cyclotis say that it is extinct. There can be no doubt that these elephants are not in North Africa. Therefore I was somewhat surprised to find in the new issue (Feb. '99) of the National Geographic magazine that the Loxodonta africana cyclotis or African forest elephant is alive and kicking in Central Africa. Though no dimensions are given for these elephants, they are apparently the same as the ones that Carthage used. About 200,00 of them (to 400,000 of the large African elephants) are still around, though like their North African kin, they are threatened by extinction, not as people movers this time, but for their tusks.

Elephantine, jumbo, mammoth, anyway you look at it, elephants are big, from the Africanus to the Indicus, well, actually except for ours. The Carthaginians used the North African Forest elephant Loxodonta africana cyclotis now extinct (probably due to homo sapiens). These guys only stood about 7-8 ft tall at the shoulder. Sources show the elephants either with a tower or without. With a tower the modus operandi was obvious, you speared or shot at your enemies from a moving hill. Without the tower, the elephants' purpose would be trampling or just breaking up enemy formations by sheer bulk. Ancient writers have noted that horses, if confronted by elephants for the first time, were prone to panic due to the strange smell. However, elephants themselves were easily panicked, and battles have been lost by panicking or turning the elephants against their own soldiers.

[PROMETHEUS]

strill working oin those two , now I post the other officers of the late period , for all those I followed this time scrupolosly the plates without adding anything more......

[PROMETHEUS]

Ok I finished the two and completed those ones , the face mask of the standard bearer still needs a little work tough.....

[Nick_jeffs]

great work on the late centurion, you did a good job showing how the army"barbarianized".

[Stormy]

Excellent

[PROMETHEUS]

face mask fixed.....

[PROMETHEUS]

Here is the legionary cohort I

[Dead Moroz]

Well, I'm looking at the map and I can't tell which Scyths do you mean: the ones in 'Scythia' around the Black Sea, or the ones around and beyond Caspian? Because Sarmatians and Pokrovka are east of the former, and west of the latter...

I mean the Scythians in "official" Scythia (northern Black Sea).
Those ones whom you call "later Scythians" are Scythians in comprehensive sense, just nomads. The real later Scythians dwelled in Crimea and close surroundings.

As for the gender differences in Scythian society, I tend to agree with Salazar, although as sources I can only quote numerous essays and articles found on the internet, regarding role of transsexuals and transgendered people in Scythia.

Links, please.

[Dead Moroz]

Go easy on him. He tries hard...

Sorry, I did not want to offend anybody. It's just a statement of fact, nothing personal.

Sorry. Not all. Some Scythian women fought on horseback alongside men.

Would you mind I quote myself?

Second, you might missed one important thing. All these stories (by Herodotus and other ancient authors) are about eastern neighbors of Scythians. All these "sensational" finds was made in regions to the east of Scythia. In Scythian art you cannot find any image of female warrior. This amazonic stuff is not related to Scythians. So we MUST get rid of Hunting Maidens and Scythian Noblewomen.

These female units could be created for Sarmatian faction. But anyway their historical reliability is doubtful.

[eadingas]

I mean the Scythians in "official" Scythia (northern Black Sea).
Those ones whom you call "later Scythians" are Scythians in comprehensive sense, just nomads. The real later Scythians dwelled in Crimea and close surroundings.

Ah, so that's where the confusion comes from...
So how about making the female units region-specific, only available in Tribus Sakae and east of that (as this is where Pokrovka's and Pazyryk's excavation would be, wouldn't they?)

Links, please.

Well, there's this, for example:
http://www.gender.org.uk/chstnuts/enaree.htm

And there's of course Hippocrates' account of Sarmatians, or 'Scythians'.

Perhaps the confusion is here from what the term 'Scythians' means - both in game and in reality... If we make Scythians (or Sarmatians?) a faction spreading from Black Sea to Caspian and beyond, we should include female warriors, I think. If we confine them only to the Black Sea Scythians, more evidence is needed... Maybe make female warriors a merc unit available in Tribus Sakae?

[Dead Moroz]

Ah, so that's where the confusion comes from...
So how about making the female units region-specific, only available in Tribus Sakae and east of that (as this is where Pokrovka's and Pazyryk's excavation would be, wouldn't they?)

Yes, that's almost what I'm talking about. But not region specific - faction specific (Sarmatians). And I'm still repeating: the historical accuracy of female units is very doubtful.

Perhaps the confusion is here from what the term 'Scythians' means - both in game and in reality... If we make Scythians (or Sarmatians?) a faction spreading from Black Sea to Caspian and beyond, we should include female warriors, I think. If we confine them only to the Black Sea Scythians, more evidence is needed... Maybe make female warriors a merc unit available in Tribus Sakae?

We already have Scythian faction in northern Black Sea only. They shouldn't have any female warriors, no matter what regions they may conquer.

If we will be able to create new Sarmatian faction they (Sarmatians) will have some female warriors, no matter what regions they have.

I'm afraid I'm just unable to fight with this "amazon madness" among our members.

[eadingas]

"I'm afraid I'm just unable to fight with this "amazon madness" among our members."

Well, on one hand we have several accounts ranging from Hippocrates to modern archeologians, on the other, we have you saying it's all 'misinterpretation'... But I'm still getting confused by the multiple 'Scythians' appearing in all this discussion. Aren't the 'Sakae' tribes also called 'Scythians'? What about 'Scythian' burial mounds in Siberia and Mongolia?

[Dead Moroz]

But I'm still getting confused by the multiple 'Scythians' appearing in all this discussion. Aren't the 'Sakae' tribes also called 'Scythians'? What about 'Scythian' burial mounds in Siberia and Mongolia?

Ok, I'll try to explain it more understandable. Look, for modern Americans all inhabitants of East Europe are ex-Soviets or even just Soviets still. No matter who they are - Russians, Poles, Czechs, Serbians, etc. They all are Reds. Now imagine - ancient Greeks and Romans are modern Americans and ancient nomads are Eastern Europeans. For ancient Greeks and Romans all nomads were not Scythians, Sarmatians, Meotes, Massagetians, Sakas, Usunes, Tokhares, Dahes, Yuezhes, etc. They all were just "Scythians". This collective name still remains in modern science. In the wide sense it means all nomadic tribes dwelled in Eurasian steppes between modern Hungary on the west and Manchuria on the east in 1 millennium BC - about 3 century AD. In the narrow sense it means just that famous Scythians from northern Black Sea. So don't wonder when you see on map "Scythians" placed somewhere near Chinese borders. Read it as "nomads".

[Ranika]

Actually the Poles and Serbs are usually called Poles and Serbs by the Americans. However, Russians, Georgians, the Czechs, and a few others are lumped into 'Former Soviet Bloc Nations', and referred to as 'Former Soviets' when speaking about them politically, if the subject is on early-mid 90s politics. However, no one uses the phrase 'Reds' much anymore, nor refers to anyone as Soviets except as misspeak. When talking modern politics though, large divisions are taken into account on who the Czechs or Russians or etc. are.

However, your point is correct. Without really knowing much about the people beyond the Scythian/Sarmatians, it was likely assumed anyone in the region was related or similar to them in most respects, regardless of any truth involved. The tribes near the Chinese could have been of a completely different extraction, but without time given to study their differences from Scythians, they would be assumed Scythians because of a few superficial similarities, or assumed similarities.

[Dead Moroz]

Actually the Poles and Serbs are usually called Poles and Serbs...

These guys were always lucky.

[eadingas]

Umm... not to get too off-topicky, but - why Serbs? ;)

[PSYCHO V]

Been pretty busy with work this week. Finally finished off the Southern Warband.

[Ranika]

I think it has to do with the Mogadishu incident back in the 90s. The term "Serbs" was proliferated widely by media. The reason for 'Soviet Bloc' and 'former Soviet' falling out of favor is mainly news reports on the areas of the former USSR, that do not use such phraseology as "former Soviet" or "bloc nation".

And back on topic, the southern warband looks great. I was always a bit upset none of the Gauls had spiked, lyed hair. Just seemed stupid to me. The Southern Warband is a good as I could have hoped for, excellent looking, superior to CA's Gallic units for certain.

[PROMETHEUS]

please guys , Even If I have been the start of this Scythian fight , could this tiopic be shifted to another topic? thanks .....would like instead to know your comments on the latest roman units I posted here is a list of the ones I reskinned , this time I have been very precise on following the plates....

early legionaire

early centurion

early standard bearer

later centurion

later standard bearer

veliti

skirmishers of late perood

archers

auxilia archers

auxilia infantry

triarii

hastati

princeps


PSICO V for me the southern band is perfect......

[Dead Moroz]

PROMETHEUS, with Romans you go right way. Good work!

Just few notes:
- Remove breastplates from triarii.
- Remove gap in the bottom of chainmails of triarii and principes. Make it look like the one that standard bearer have.
- Make proper shields for early Roman units (change the shape and remove wings and lightnings).
- Make 4 color variants (for every Roman faction).

[Dead Moroz]

Nice looking "Dancing Gaul" icon!

[PROMETHEUS]

Here the shields of the early cohort praetoria and the late chort praetoria

- Remove breastplates from triarii.

no according to some source it was used so I leave it

Remove gap in the bottom of chainmails of triarii and principes. Make it look like the one that standard bearer have.

what's this gap? any pic?

- Make proper shields for early Roman units (change the shape and remove wings and lightnings).

the early legions I guess u refer but those are late republican legions , while the lorica segmenta legions are the veeery late republic imperial time


if u refer to the shields of the triari velites and hastati i saw that in some representations they had those simbols a bit less precise may be but they have , while on other representations they have no simbols or draws and between the two I choose the first....

- Make 4 color variants (for every Roman faction).

sure when I have more time....

but i will follow the same patterns or I can change the colours ??


anyway


the praetorians in the plates I have have white dress and not red , the early cohort I mean .....

[PROMETHEUS]

[Urnamma]

Prometheus. Triarii, Principes, Hastatii should NOT have that artwork on their shields. According to fonti primarie, they did not have it.

Also, Triarii should NOT have breastplates. Only maybe 1% were rich enough to afford breastplates. They should just have mail.

[Urnamma]

Promethius: your artwork is bad ass, btw.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

strill working oin those two , now I post the other officers of the late period , for all those I followed this time scrupolosly the plates without adding anything more......

One detail I forgot to mention in the Triarii. They shouldn't have a breast plate at all. They used mail with mail shoulder straps, not the breast plate above the mail. Another problem: the Centurion has a cuirass (complete breast armour), therefore the shoulder pads should be metal plate, not mail. No mail on the shoulders and arms either.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Ok I finished the two and completed those ones , the face mask of the standard bearer still needs a little work tough.....

Sorry to be a nag, but this Centurion should not have the metal shoulder plates of the Lorica Segmentata Legionaires. Since he uses mail, he should have mail shoulder pads.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

face mask fixed.....

Excellent....