Unit Screenshots

[SwordsMaster]

I think they look great m8! Great work!

[Dead Moroz]

PROMETHEUS, very, very good work!

But can you give me your new cas'es and textures for triarii and late praetorians? I don't want to be a boring complaining person again, I'll try to fix all your "bugs" myself. OK?

And I don't agree with new shield for early Roman units (damn, I start complaining again!). On the picture, that you posted depicted modern free variation on Roman theme. In historical reconstructions shields do not have that wings, afaik. And shields must be more oval (look at the pics you posted yourself).

You mean the Centurion shoulders? Ifi so I guess I could remove the shoulders , but then I should move the mantle and I dunno if I'll be able without touching the skin modifier in the stack pile of the mesh....

No, I meant soldier's shoulders - I circled this place on my picture.
But centurion - too. As Aymar said before, centurion shouldn't have that straps.

[PROMETHEUS]

PROMETHEUS, very, very good work!

But can you give me your new cas'es and textures for triarii and late praetorians? I don't want to be a boring complaining person again, I'll try to fix all your "bugs" myself. OK?



WHAT ARE THOSE BUGS?

And I don't agree with new shield for early Roman units (damn, I start complaining again!). On the picture, that you posted depicted modern free variation on Roman theme. In historical reconstructions shields do not have that wings, afaik.

THERE IS NO REFERENCE TO ANY pattern for early roman republican legion but for this one all the others are more fantastical , tough i see the one I used more used by legions at Caesar's time , but then again , find me a good pattern and I will add it otherwise better this than anything , since if we don't add at least a ymbol or a pattern top the shields the armies will look too plain and confusing...

And shields must be more oval (look at the pics you posted yourself).


I THINK that the shield is ok making more oval is just a taste thing , better focus on making more units or the project will just make like the Zenones's never ending motus.....

[Dead Moroz]

WHAT ARE THOSE BUGS?

Bad made shield pattern:


Lines on breast (because of wrong copied segments of chain mail):

...better focus on making more units or the project will just make like the Zenones's never ending motus.....

Absolutely disagreed. Historical accuracy is more important for us than the number of units and the speed of their creation. That's why we making this mod. And this is the main idea of this mod.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

...better focus on making more units or the project will just make like the Zenones's never ending motus.....

Absolutely disagreed. Historical accuracy is more important for us than the number of units and the speed of their creation. That's why we making this mod. And this is the main idea of this mod.

Dead Moroz is completelly right on this subject. This is an Historical correction MOD. We're not making units because we feel like it. We are making them to simulate History in the best possible way. We prefer to be sure and make things perfect than to rush stuff just to release the MOD earlier. Speed is the enemy of perfection.

[PROMETHEUS]

Absolutely disagreed. Historical accuracy is more important for us than the number of units and the speed of their creation. That's why we making this mod. And this is the main idea of this mod.

MMM this is a bad mentality , If you dream the perfect world and do nothing to build it you will never get out of your hom , my politic is

FIRST BUILD , THEN REFINE

AS YOU HAVE SEEN I have made severall units and refined them severall times with some units starting from the Samnite ones ....


then

I never said I was going to make fantasy units , I just try to make them as similar to what is supposed to be the unit at that period of time , men have different opinions , so historians , so what is certain for you may be completely wrong for someonelse , What I try is to please both to reach a compromise of perfection , the Spartan I did is the most accurate reconstruction od a 270 BC hoplit based on deductions , studies , plates comparisons and mergings , is not invented at all!!!
If you have a photograph of a Spartan Hoplit marching on the fields directly from this date then post me , untill then all is mere speculation , I disagree on following stereotipic patterns , the Spartan society was a conservative one , but also a warrior class so the better guess is to have them wear a "spartan" cuirass , fairly common used by Greek hoplits in this period , with their charachteristic lambda shield wich depicts their class status and also their helmet wich is most probably a heritage from the previous generations of warriors in the Spartan society....then the reconstruction is born , the mantle , _(I worked half afternoon to add it ) is becouse they wore it , even if not in combat it made part of their status symbol so should go in and helps recognize them from back wich otherwuise would be very difficoult to distinguish from other hoplits if not from the frontal face.....

then


Aymar de Bois Mauri

You can state by yourself that the pic doesn't shows what I reconstructed , Also you should not undervaluate the maniacism of Miniature painters that most of the time have better sources than historians wich this is the case

Spartans used this pylos helmet countrary of what is believed in ancient classical history corinthian type , which may be you cna see in the Troy movie but not at this time unless for some other units...


also the picture you posted shows a thracian helmet wich is out of place to me for a greek hoplit ....

I am working for recostructing units the more close to what they should like ...and this is why I joined this project , so once made the unit unless special errors if followed right principles of reconstruction , can be criticized but unless you bring a certain prove that this isn't correct then this is the better we can come to ....

also I had other plates and info on books about all the units I reconstructed as you have seen by the many plates I posted , But I got bored to scannerize every time I make a new unit so I preferred to pick up an image from internet that looks more close......

Bad made shield pattern

Ok remake a better one post it to me and I will change the shield , untill then I will keep this....

Lines on breast

I don't even notice them but if you see that there are then you will be able to correct them all when I release the package, as I said those are minimal errors , not historical accuracy ones....

[Meneldil]

Well, the pic Aymar posted (representing an Athenian hoplite I think) is IMO the more accurate.

The most recent plate of the "Ancient Greek" (Elite 7) Osprey book, that takes place in ~330BC (not that far from 270BC), clearly shows an athenian hoplite with a phrygian helmet.

Here's a part the comment from the author :
"In the 360s Athenian funerary reliefs start to show hoplites wearing muscle-cuirasses and 'Phrygian' helmets."

Of course, this is not something about Spartan hoplite, but from what I've read, the phrygian helmet was commonly used in greek armies at the end of the 4th century BC.
The book also deals with the contingent sent by the greeks in 278 BC to help the Aetolians against the Galatians.

The corinthian helmet was probably not used anymore in 270BC, though many hoplites were probably wearing a body light armor again.

[Dead Moroz]

MMM this is a bad mentality , If you dream the perfect world and do nothing to build it you will never get out of your hom , my politic is

Absolutely agreed. But it doesn't mean that we should build the house which will collapse after a week. If you build something build it to last.

FIRST BUILD , THEN REFINE

It's already built - the vanilla RTW! You are already refining it.

AS YOU HAVE SEEN I have made severall units and refined them severall times with some units starting from the Samnite ones ....

Great work! Why not to keep all your other work in such "high style"!?

Ok remake a better one post it to me and I will change the shield , untill then I will keep this....

I don't even notice them but if you see that there are then you will be able to correct them all when I release the package, as I said those are minimal errors , not historical accuracy ones....

Ok, just gimme your cas'es and textures so that I can correct them.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

MMM this is a bad mentality , If you dream the perfect world and do nothing to build it you will never get out of your hom , my politic is

We're not dreaming it. We're building it. Although not many can keep your pace at creating units.

FIRST BUILD , THEN REFINE

AS YOU HAVE SEEN I have made severall units and refined them severall times with some units starting from the Samnite ones ....

True. I'm not arguing with that.

I never said I was going to make fantasy units , I just try to make them as similar to what is supposed to be the unit at that period of time , men have different opinions , so historians , so what is certain for you may be completely wrong for someonelse , What I try is to please both to reach a compromise of perfection , the Spartan I did is the most accurate reconstruction od a 270 BC hoplit based on deductions , studies , plates comparisons and mergings , is not invented at all!!!

I never said you were making fantasy units!!! In fact, I praised you several times for your accuracy. I was just asking for a plate to compare it to, because I had a very different idea taken from my readings.

You can state by yourself that the pic doesn't shows what I reconstructed , Also you should not undervaluate the maniacism of Miniature painters that most of the time have better sources than historians wich this is the case

Yes, I know that most of them are extremelly well informed. I just need to see several examples to be convinced of their total accuracy.

Spartans used this pylos helmet countrary of what is believed in ancient classical history corinthian type , which may be you cna see in the Troy movie but not at this time unless for some other units...

Well, didn't you understood what I've said? I never questioned the use of that helm. Of course the corinthian wasn't used in that age. My problem is more with the cuirass than the rest.

also the picture you posted shows a thracian helmet wich is out of place to me for a greek hoplit ....

For you. But it could be correct because it was a standard by then. The same happened with the corinthian one some 150 years before. It became a standard.

But, as I've said before, your helm isn't the issue. I was just asking about the cuirass or linen armour.

I am working for recostructing units the more close to what they should like ...and this is why I joined this project , so once made the unit unless special errors if followed right principles of reconstruction , can be criticized but unless you bring a certain prove that this isn't correct then this is the better we can come to ....

I'm in no way criticizing your awesome efforts. I aplaude them. I just want our decisions to be perfectly justified and correct, not to run into problems later on. Just that.

also I had other plates and info on books about all the units I reconstructed as you have seen by the many plates I posted , But I got bored to scannerize every time I make a new unit so I preferred to pick up an image from internet that looks more close......

That is the point of the question. We can't be working for convinience. We must work for perfectionism. And, believe me, your work can achieve that. It already did with some other units.

Ok remake a better one post it to me and I will change the shield , untill then I will keep this....

That was for Dead Moroz, not for me, right?

[The Wizard]

Dead Moroz is completelly right on this subject. This is an Historical correction MOD. We're not making units because we feel like it. We are making them to simulate History in the best possible way. We prefer to be sure and make things perfect than to rush stuff just to release the MOD earlier. Speed is the enemy of perfection.

I partially disagree. We aren't only doing this to correct incorrect units, we're also taking unit speed, tactics and everything else besides units which we can mod (i.e. is not hardcoded) and which is historically innacurate and making it accurate, like we believe it's supposed to be.

At least, I thought that was the goal of this project.



~Wiz

[PROMETHEUS]

Cretan archers......

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

I partially disagree. We aren't only doing this to correct incorrect units, we're also taking unit speed, tactics and everything else besides units which we can mod (i.e. is not hardcoded) and which is historically innacurate and making it accurate, like we believe it's supposed to be.

At least, I thought that was the goal of this project.

Of course. I wasn't just refering to the units part, but, in this particular case, we were talking about units...

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

No, I meant soldier's shoulders - I circled this place on my picture.
But centurion - too. As Aymar said before, centurion shouldn't have that straps.

I've already talked to him through PM and I will rework the shoulders in MAX.

[PROMETHEUS]

Spartans as I have found arouns should look like....

[PROMETHEUS]

this is a better representation of the Samnite Gladiator , I still have to work on some details on the helmet and skins tough.....

[Urnamma]

PROMETHEUS: We're not using gladiators. We're not using any gladiators.

[PROMETHEUS]

Why not ? they have been used , even a full army of gladiators....

U remember Spartacus?

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

PROMETHEUS: We're not using gladiators. We're not using any gladiators.

Yes we are, yes we are...

In slave rebellions in Italy they will appear. Therefore is Gladiator work is necessary and correct.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Spartans as I have found arouns should look like....

Historical pics from the period in question, please. We need to be sure that they were exactly like that at that time.

BTW, how did you make the Lacadaemon symbol without using mirrors? How did you edited the shield's UVW map to achieve that?

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Spartans as I have found arouns should look like....

BTW... ...isn't this somewhat different?



See? No greaves, no white linen cuirass...

Although I know this relates to 400BC, I would like for you to show us a depiction of about 270BC for comparation.