Unit Screenshots

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

...better focus on making more units or the project will just make like the Zenones's never ending motus.....

Absolutely disagreed. Historical accuracy is more important for us than the number of units and the speed of their creation. That's why we making this mod. And this is the main idea of this mod.

Dead Moroz is completelly right on this subject. This is an Historical correction MOD. We're not making units because we feel like it. We are making them to simulate History in the best possible way. We prefer to be sure and make things perfect than to rush stuff just to release the MOD earlier. Speed is the enemy of perfection.

[PROMETHEUS]

Absolutely disagreed. Historical accuracy is more important for us than the number of units and the speed of their creation. That's why we making this mod. And this is the main idea of this mod.

MMM this is a bad mentality , If you dream the perfect world and do nothing to build it you will never get out of your hom , my politic is

FIRST BUILD , THEN REFINE

AS YOU HAVE SEEN I have made severall units and refined them severall times with some units starting from the Samnite ones ....


then

I never said I was going to make fantasy units , I just try to make them as similar to what is supposed to be the unit at that period of time , men have different opinions , so historians , so what is certain for you may be completely wrong for someonelse , What I try is to please both to reach a compromise of perfection , the Spartan I did is the most accurate reconstruction od a 270 BC hoplit based on deductions , studies , plates comparisons and mergings , is not invented at all!!!
If you have a photograph of a Spartan Hoplit marching on the fields directly from this date then post me , untill then all is mere speculation , I disagree on following stereotipic patterns , the Spartan society was a conservative one , but also a warrior class so the better guess is to have them wear a "spartan" cuirass , fairly common used by Greek hoplits in this period , with their charachteristic lambda shield wich depicts their class status and also their helmet wich is most probably a heritage from the previous generations of warriors in the Spartan society....then the reconstruction is born , the mantle , _(I worked half afternoon to add it ) is becouse they wore it , even if not in combat it made part of their status symbol so should go in and helps recognize them from back wich otherwuise would be very difficoult to distinguish from other hoplits if not from the frontal face.....

then


Aymar de Bois Mauri

You can state by yourself that the pic doesn't shows what I reconstructed , Also you should not undervaluate the maniacism of Miniature painters that most of the time have better sources than historians wich this is the case

Spartans used this pylos helmet countrary of what is believed in ancient classical history corinthian type , which may be you cna see in the Troy movie but not at this time unless for some other units...


also the picture you posted shows a thracian helmet wich is out of place to me for a greek hoplit ....

I am working for recostructing units the more close to what they should like ...and this is why I joined this project , so once made the unit unless special errors if followed right principles of reconstruction , can be criticized but unless you bring a certain prove that this isn't correct then this is the better we can come to ....

also I had other plates and info on books about all the units I reconstructed as you have seen by the many plates I posted , But I got bored to scannerize every time I make a new unit so I preferred to pick up an image from internet that looks more close......

Bad made shield pattern

Ok remake a better one post it to me and I will change the shield , untill then I will keep this....

Lines on breast

I don't even notice them but if you see that there are then you will be able to correct them all when I release the package, as I said those are minimal errors , not historical accuracy ones....

[Meneldil]

Well, the pic Aymar posted (representing an Athenian hoplite I think) is IMO the more accurate.

The most recent plate of the "Ancient Greek" (Elite 7) Osprey book, that takes place in ~330BC (not that far from 270BC), clearly shows an athenian hoplite with a phrygian helmet.

Here's a part the comment from the author :
"In the 360s Athenian funerary reliefs start to show hoplites wearing muscle-cuirasses and 'Phrygian' helmets."

Of course, this is not something about Spartan hoplite, but from what I've read, the phrygian helmet was commonly used in greek armies at the end of the 4th century BC.
The book also deals with the contingent sent by the greeks in 278 BC to help the Aetolians against the Galatians.

The corinthian helmet was probably not used anymore in 270BC, though many hoplites were probably wearing a body light armor again.

[PROMETHEUS]

Wich doesn't fir the Spartan tough...

[Crazed Rabbit]

Truly excellent units! I will definately get this mod!
Great work Prometheus!

Crazed Rabbit

[PROMETHEUS]

Sicily mercenary hoplites....

[Meneldil]

Well, here are two pics I took from my Osprey Book. They are quite dodgy, but at least we can see the plates (since I haven't resized the pic, it might take a while to load) :

Late 4BC Hoplite

490 BC Hoplites

Plate 1 Characters are from the left to the right :
Athenian Hoplite, second half 4th BC
Rhodian Hoplite, end of the 4th BC
Greek mercenary, c. 330 BC

Plate 2 characters are from the left to the right :
Lakedaimonian officier 490 BC
Samian hoplite, 490 BC
Athenian hoplite of Alkaionid Clan, 490 BC
Argive hoplite, 490 BC

The main point to this post is to show what Hoplite looked like a few decades before 270BC. They are quite different from the losy hoplite we have for RTW (I don't know if those are accurate, since my knowledge about hellenes is summed up in this book, but I think they suck)

I posted the 2nd plate cause I think the pic you use for the mercenary hoplites' shield was rather related to an Athenian family. I might be wrong on this aswell, but I don't think mercenaries should have that kind of shield.

Anyway, good work on the skins :)

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Sicily mercenary hoplites....

Beautifull!!! Well done, PROMETHEUS!!!

[Dead Moroz]

MMM this is a bad mentality , If you dream the perfect world and do nothing to build it you will never get out of your hom , my politic is

Absolutely agreed. But it doesn't mean that we should build the house which will collapse after a week. If you build something build it to last.

FIRST BUILD , THEN REFINE

It's already built - the vanilla RTW! You are already refining it.

AS YOU HAVE SEEN I have made severall units and refined them severall times with some units starting from the Samnite ones ....

Great work! Why not to keep all your other work in such "high style"!?

Ok remake a better one post it to me and I will change the shield , untill then I will keep this....

I don't even notice them but if you see that there are then you will be able to correct them all when I release the package, as I said those are minimal errors , not historical accuracy ones....

Ok, just gimme your cas'es and textures so that I can correct them.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

MMM this is a bad mentality , If you dream the perfect world and do nothing to build it you will never get out of your hom , my politic is

We're not dreaming it. We're building it. Although not many can keep your pace at creating units.

FIRST BUILD , THEN REFINE

AS YOU HAVE SEEN I have made severall units and refined them severall times with some units starting from the Samnite ones ....

True. I'm not arguing with that.

I never said I was going to make fantasy units , I just try to make them as similar to what is supposed to be the unit at that period of time , men have different opinions , so historians , so what is certain for you may be completely wrong for someonelse , What I try is to please both to reach a compromise of perfection , the Spartan I did is the most accurate reconstruction od a 270 BC hoplit based on deductions , studies , plates comparisons and mergings , is not invented at all!!!

I never said you were making fantasy units!!! In fact, I praised you several times for your accuracy. I was just asking for a plate to compare it to, because I had a very different idea taken from my readings.

You can state by yourself that the pic doesn't shows what I reconstructed , Also you should not undervaluate the maniacism of Miniature painters that most of the time have better sources than historians wich this is the case

Yes, I know that most of them are extremelly well informed. I just need to see several examples to be convinced of their total accuracy.

Spartans used this pylos helmet countrary of what is believed in ancient classical history corinthian type , which may be you cna see in the Troy movie but not at this time unless for some other units...

Well, didn't you understood what I've said? I never questioned the use of that helm. Of course the corinthian wasn't used in that age. My problem is more with the cuirass than the rest.

also the picture you posted shows a thracian helmet wich is out of place to me for a greek hoplit ....

For you. But it could be correct because it was a standard by then. The same happened with the corinthian one some 150 years before. It became a standard.

But, as I've said before, your helm isn't the issue. I was just asking about the cuirass or linen armour.

I am working for recostructing units the more close to what they should like ...and this is why I joined this project , so once made the unit unless special errors if followed right principles of reconstruction , can be criticized but unless you bring a certain prove that this isn't correct then this is the better we can come to ....

I'm in no way criticizing your awesome efforts. I aplaude them. I just want our decisions to be perfectly justified and correct, not to run into problems later on. Just that.

also I had other plates and info on books about all the units I reconstructed as you have seen by the many plates I posted , But I got bored to scannerize every time I make a new unit so I preferred to pick up an image from internet that looks more close......

That is the point of the question. We can't be working for convinience. We must work for perfectionism. And, believe me, your work can achieve that. It already did with some other units.

Ok remake a better one post it to me and I will change the shield , untill then I will keep this....

That was for Dead Moroz, not for me, right?

[PROMETHEUS]

Actually U quoted parts for Deaz Moroz more than to you anyway ...here is the Secutor Wich I used to substituite the Mirmillo wich is similar to the Samnite and so I merged in the Samnite , He should use a sort of sword but the animations are with a spear so I will leave this unchanged to be changed later on since I use those units to play online too....

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Actually U quoted parts for Deaz Moroz more than to you anyway ...here is the Secutor Wich I used to substituite the Mirmillo wich is similar to the Samnite and so I merged in the Samnite , He should use a sort of sword but the animations are with a spear so I will leave this unchanged to be changed later on since I use those units to play online too....

No problem. We'll change that later. Great work!!!

[PSYCHO V]

OFFICERS


General :
Same model as Arverni but with bronze breastplate with ornate design, short conical helmet with vein / spike (Helvetii style) and wings, longsword

Lesser General :
Same model as Arverni but with mail vest and shoulder pieces, Conical Helmet with large cheek guards and Black Plume ..or this helmet


Unit Commander :
Same model as Arverni but with mail vest and shoulder pieces, Boar helmet, long sword, round shield

Standard Bearer : (In progress)
Helm, cloak, naked torso, Boar standard, long sword

Carnyx :
Duds, long sleeve shirt, carnyx, bowl helm



LIGHT INFANTRY


Tribal Militia : (In progress)

Gallic versions of Peasants yet still better skilled in fighting than other culture equivalent
Long hair, Gallic mow, long shirt, tartan trousers, oval shield, thrusting spear

Senone Slingers :

Above Average Valour, Easily Fatigued, Dubious Morale under heavy casualties
(Long hair, Gallic moustache, torque, naked chest, trousers, shoes, Sling, Pellet pouch slung over shoulder, Short Celtic Sword, Very small buckler usually slung over back).
(Can be raised anywhere in Transalpine Gaul)

Aquitanian Archers: (In progress)

Average Valour, Easily Fatigued, Low Morale
(Long plated hair, Gallic moustache, torque, long sleave shirt to thigh over trousers and tied around waste with belt, shoes, bow, quiver of arrows hung off left hip, short Celtic sword, No Shield).
(Can be raised in Southern Transalpine Gaul)

Bodvoritus (‘Running Wrath’):

Extremely Impetuous, Extremely Undisciplined, Good Morale, Very Good Stamina, Good Attack
(Long flowing hair, naked tattooed torso, Gallic moustache, torque, armlets, chequered trousers in ‘faction colours’, shoes, arm guards, dirk and medium length (Halstatt) sword).
(Can be raised from Transalpine Gaul)



MEDIUM INFANTRY


Southern Warband: (Done)

Impetuous, Above Average Valour, Easily Fatigued.
(Shorter hair to nape of neck and spiked up with lime, Gallic moustache, torque, bangle around each wrist, naked chest, cloak fastened at right shoulder by broach, tartan trousers, shoes, throwing spears, long Celtic sword, rounded rectangular shield)
(Can be raised anywhere in Cisalpine Gaul and Celtiberia)


Northern Warband: (Done)

Impetuous, Above Average Valour, Easily Fatigued.
(Long hair platted, Gallic moustache, torque, naked chest, armlets, bangle around each wrist, trousers, shoes, throwing spears, long Celtic sword, oval shield)
(Can be raised anywhere in Transalpine Gaul)

* Thinking about giving bowl helmet. Thoughts?

Veneti Bagaudam (‘Guerrilla Fighters’):

Disciplined, Average Valour, Dubious Morale, more easily achieve ambushes, receive bonus to attack when directly from ships or at night.
(Bronze helmet with thin horns, short dark hair, Gallic moustache, torque, short sleave shirt in ‘faction colours’ with chequered borders to thigh over trousers and tied around waste with belt, short boots, spear, Celtic sword, strange squarish shield with wavy sides).
(Can be raised from Veneti (Armorica) Territory)


Dubis Dusios (‘Black Demons’):

Impetuous, Very High Valour, Good Stamina, Very High Morale, Good Attack
(Bronze bowl helmets adorned with purple crest, short dark hair, shaggy black (goatskin like) shoulder-less tunic to above knee bound by thick Iberian belt, arm guards, greaves made of the same black material wound around shins and carves, excellent quality iron short two edged swords, dirk, Celtic oval shield in ‘faction colours’).
(Can be raised from Celtiberian ‘Gaul’)
*May ditch this depending on the Celtiberian work?

Bodubatae (‘Raven Warriors’):

Excellent Discipline, Good Valour, Good Stamina, High Morale,
(Bronze Raven helmet, long hair, Gallic moustache, golden torque, golden armlets, bronze armbands, long sleeve shirt with bronze cuirass, red tartan trousers to ankles, cloak in 'faction colours’ fastened with large golden broach on right shoulder, short boots, long thrusting spear, long Celtic sword, Oval Shield).
(Can be raised from Aedui Territory / Gallic Capital)



HEAVY INFANTRY


Arverni Arjos (‘Nobles’): (Done)

Good Discipline, Low Valour, Easily Fatigued, Good Morale
(Iron ‘Gallic’ helmet, long hair, Gallic moustache, torque, wrist guards, shirt of mail over long sleeve tunic gathered by belt at waist, tartan cloak gathered on right shoulder with broach, trousers, short boots, long thrusting spears, long Celtic sword, shield).

(Can be raised from Arverni Territory, post Marian reforms if possible)

Carnute Cingetos (‘Warriors):

High Valour, High Morale, Good attack, Cause Fear against other Gallic units, Large Additional Valour and Morale Bonus against non-Celtic factions.
(Iron helmet with forward facing horns, long hair, Gallic moustache, torque, arm guards, chain mail shirt over long sleeve tunic gathered at waist by belt, stripped trousers in ‘faction colours’, Royal Blue cloak fastened on breast, short ankle boots, Long Celtic Sword, Round Shield).
(Can be raised from Carnute Territory)



CAVALRY


Leuce Epos (‘Light Horse’):
Disciplined, Good Valour, Good Morale
(Iron bowl Helmet with tri swirl cheek guards, long hair, Gallic moustache, torque, armlets, bangle around each wrist, long sleave tunic over trousers and tied at waist by belt, shoes, round shield, throwing spears, long Celtic Sword).
(Can raise from any Celtic Area)

Brihentin (‘Elite Cavalry’):

Disciplined, Good Valour, Easily fatigued, Good Morale, Excellent Attack
(Iron ‘Gallic’ helmet with faction-coloured plume, long hair, Gallic moustache, torque, arm guards, chain mail shirt over long sleeve tunic gathered at waist by belt, trousers in ‘faction colours’, cloak fastened on right shoulder by broach, short ankle boots, medium spear / lance, long Celtic Sword, Round shield).
(Can be raised anywhere in Transalpine Gaul)



MERCENARIES


Gaesatae (‘Spearmen’):

Impetuous, High valour, Easily fatigued, Good Morale, Very Good Attack, Long spear throwing range.
(Like to see slightly larger model of warband but with beefed up muscles, no trousers, small flap at front, Iron Helmet with black horse hair trail, long hair, Gallic moustache, Long Hexagonal Shield, throwing spears, Long Celtic Sword, large golden torque, armlets, bracelets and anklets.
(Can be hired from Gallic Territory)

Ordocorii (‘Hammer Troops’):

Disciplined, Good Valour, Good Stamina, Average Morale
(Short Horned (Thames styled) helmet, Long dark flowing hair, Woaded face and arms, Gallic moustache, Golden torque, Heavy Wrist guards, Sleeveless shirt and vest of chain mail over trousers, belt at waist, Tartan cloak, shoes, heavy war hammer, round shield)
(Can be hired from any Gallic coastal province)
* I’d actually like to see an event linked to war with Rome that Britons offer their services.

Mori Gaesum (‘Sea of Spears’):

Excellent Discipline, Good Valour, Very Good Morale
(Tall spiked iron helmets, long dark hair, Gallic moustache, torque, arm guards, red tunic with chequered borders gathered with belt over trousers, cloak same colour as trousers, shoes, Pikes, long Celtic sword, large rectangular shield with rounded edges)
(Can be hired from Helvetii territory)

* Like to see event where Helvetii migrate

Teutones:

Disciplined, Excellent Valour, Good Stamina, Excellent Morale
(Hair dyed red and in pony tail, full beard, naked chest, short cloak, trousers, shoes, throwing spears, small square shield)
(Can be hire from border areas with Germans / German territory)

[Vercingetorix]

Excellent! This weekend we have holiday in the USA (thanksgiving) so I hope to work on some more Gallic units

[PROMETHEUS]

Are all those gallic units realistic ? I have never heard of Daemons, ravens or sea of spear units where did u took all this info? U used the Bello Gallico? or somewhere else?
since I don't remember those even in this book....

[PROMETHEUS]

Thraex Gladiator , the equvalent of CA veliti....

Actually I deleted for error overwriting this model , so I will remake but I was undecise between this Thraex wich is close to the one CA made and instead the retiarius .... difficult task to make the net ......


or may be we could add the Scissor Gladiator to replace the arcani , actually they look very similar about for the cape .... even if the Arcani where really an exhisting unit in ancienRome , they where more a secret policethan a military unit so could be used to add a fourth gladiator unit ......so a rebel army of gladiators will ave


heavy samnite-mirmillons , scissor , secutor

light thraex retiarius

[The Wizard]

Dead Moroz is completelly right on this subject. This is an Historical correction MOD. We're not making units because we feel like it. We are making them to simulate History in the best possible way. We prefer to be sure and make things perfect than to rush stuff just to release the MOD earlier. Speed is the enemy of perfection.

I partially disagree. We aren't only doing this to correct incorrect units, we're also taking unit speed, tactics and everything else besides units which we can mod (i.e. is not hardcoded) and which is historically innacurate and making it accurate, like we believe it's supposed to be.

At least, I thought that was the goal of this project.



~Wiz

[PROMETHEUS]

Cretan archers......

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Cretan archers......

They used javelins too? I didn't know that...

[Dead Moroz]

Cretan archers......

Are you sure they looked like this? And javelins... Can you show us pictures of ancient depictions or modern reconstructions, or text describing them?

[Ahilleas]

Are you sure they looked like this? And javelins... Can you show us pictures of ancient depictions or modern reconstructions, or text describing them?

Hello to everybody and congratulationsfor your fantastic job. Im comming from Greece, Im a graphic designer and great fan of ancient history.
I admire your effort for true historical representation of this game. I unfortunally dont know anything about 3d modelling but i can use photoshop REALLY good. So if any question or small task comes out im here.
Now about Cretian archers.
They were the only missile unit that wasnt included in the ''psiloi'' category in the way most others were. I mean they were archers by choice and not due to economical reasons. Thus they were far more better equipped than other regional archers. They carried a small round bronze shield (wich as Xenophon writes its flashing betrayed them during an ambush), they often had swords and many times light linen armor. Sometimes they reffered to have helmets but most commonly they were wearing a head band from wich as they say the nowdays traditional headband of Crete comes. There is a relief that depicts two Cretan archers and i ll post an image when ill find it. Also there is a good Plate in osprey's ancient greeks. In conclution Cretan archers were an elite unit and not just poor people with hunting gear.
I wish i had more time so i could commit more on this project.
Im here for any advice on units or names
Im sure that the outcome of this mod will make people in CA jealous. Congratulations again for your pursue of authenticity in a time where great epics traditions and history of ancient peoples becomes hollywood chewing gums. Lets prove them that we can have fun AND learn

[eadingas]

I'm not sure about javelin/bow combination. This should be tested, I think the game engine might not allow it. Also, this would mean that archers would have no melee weapon, and it really looks silly when a unit tries to fight with a bow (I've seen badly modded slingers hitting people in the head with slings, it's not pretty). I think just the bows will be enough... also, the shield you have is nothing like a Pelta shield - it's either round or Pelta - and it should be worn on a forearm instaed of in hand. You can't shoot and hold a shield at the same time.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

I'm not sure about javelin/bow combination. This should be tested, I think the game engine might not allow it. Also, this would mean that archers would have no melee weapon, and it really looks silly when a unit tries to fight with a bow (I've seen badly modded slingers hitting people in the head with slings, it's not pretty). I think just the bows will be enough... also, the shield you have is nothing like a Pelta shield - it's either round or Pelta - and it should be worn on a forearm instaed of in hand. You can't shoot and hold a shield at the same time.

I agree that there can only be one missile and one melee hability per unit. If we could have two per unit this wouldn't be a problem. But we can't. Therefore the Cretan Archers should have a bow and a sword of some kind. As for the shield, we only need to link it differently in MAX with the CAS plug-inn.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Hello to everybody and congratulationsfor your fantastic job. Im comming from Greece, Im a graphic designer and great fan of ancient history.
I admire your effort for true historical representation of this game. I unfortunally dont know anything about 3d modelling but i can use photoshop REALLY good. So if any question or small task comes out im here.

Thank you for your compliment. We all like to hear that the work we're doing is apreciated by the community.

As for your skills, we always need a guy with good photoediting skills...

I wish i had more time so i could commit more on this project.

You can still join and contribute whenever you can.

Im here for any advice on units or names.

Care to join EB? Maybe in your particular area of expertise?

Im sure that the outcome of this mod will make people in CA jealous. Congratulations again for your pursue of authenticity in a time where great epics traditions and history of ancient peoples becomes hollywood chewing gums. Lets prove them that we can have fun AND learn

I believe you have it the nail on the head. You're right. With the contribution of everyone dedicated to a better Historical depiction of the period, including you, we will make something we will all be proud of. To play and learn (most of us are doing this last one already ).

[PROMETHEUS]

I based my reconstruction exactly on what is showed to be the Cretan archer on the Osprey plate that I wrote so if you have take a look at it , bored top scannerize right now....

[Ahilleas]

Cretan archers......

undefinedundefinedundefined
Kalimera(goodmorning) Promithea
Im quoting you about Cretan archers since you created them. From my information they didnt carry javelings at all. During classical era they might even had linen armor. Many vases showing armored archers archeologists think that their inspired from mercenary Cretan archers. Offcourse there are doubts cause they also may refer to Teukros(epic hero). There is a statue of an hoplite wearing linen armor and lion shaped cap targeting with bow that may be Cretan archer. Things are foggy as you can see and the only certain thing we have from hellenistic era is a drawing of a relief showing two friends, cretan archers, wearing tunics with a little bag hunging from their neck. The color of the tunic is unknown and its not bad to follow the example of Angus McBride who depicted a cretan with a black one. Its the traditional color in Crete for centuries. Also important is the head band.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

I partially disagree. We aren't only doing this to correct incorrect units, we're also taking unit speed, tactics and everything else besides units which we can mod (i.e. is not hardcoded) and which is historically innacurate and making it accurate, like we believe it's supposed to be.

At least, I thought that was the goal of this project.

Of course. I wasn't just refering to the units part, but, in this particular case, we were talking about units...