Unit Screenshots

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

I think you should add beard to them (slightly, as on my avatar's pic ). 'Cause on Numidians coins and on Roman depictions Numidians always have beard.

Are you sure? Most of this graphical work was based on this:



Although you might have a point if we look to this:

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Do you plan on naming the units things like Northern Warband, Liby-Phoenician Heavy Infantry and Iberian Infantry or something closer to what the Guals or Carths would actually have referred to them as? Maybe just 'Heavy Spearman' in whatever lang you're using for Carth (I'd guess Hebrew).

We plan to name the units as accuratelly as possible regarding current knowledge of ancient languages...

[QwertyMIDX]

Just for the Romans because of their similar units.

I assume that this means EB is keeping the Roman families game system even though it is completely out of whack for the early time period of the game. Is there no better way of dealing this?

[khelvan]

... in whatever lang you're using for Carth (I'd guess Hebrew).

Just out of curiosity, did you know from elsewhere that we were planning on using Hebrew for Phoenician-Punic in names and the voices, or did you guess on your own? If so, what is your background? That was something we weren't planning on until speaking to one of the world's foremost experts in Phoenician-Punic.

I assume that this means EB is keeping the Roman families game system even though it is completely out of whack for the early time period of the game. Is there no better way of dealing this?

This hasn't been decided yet. We are at an impasse here, for the moment. We are testing several different options.

[QwertyMIDX]

Well the language spoken by the Carths would have been of the Canaanite branch of Semitic languages of which Hebrew is a part. I figured it would a lot easier to find someone who could speak Hebrew than someone could be speak say Punic (which as far as I know was pretty much finished as a language by the end of the 5th or 6th century A.D.) and it would probably be just as accurate as any thing that could be scraped together from ancient sources.

I don't really have any background I'm just a 1st year History student at McGill (I'm not even doing ancient history I'm doing English speaking peoples) I just happen to be something of a history nerd.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

I just happen to be something of a history nerd.

What do you think half of the EB guys are?....

[QwertyMIDX]

What do you think half of the EB guys are?....

Oh I know, I can tell when I'm among my own . Unfortunately I'm pretty sure Khelvan was hoping for slightly more impressive credentials. I'd be happy to try and help if you'd like though, although I’m pretty sure most of the historical research I could be helpful with has already been completed.

[Dead Moroz]

Are you sure?

You gotta use primary sources, man.

[Byzantine Prince]

I agree with that. What's the point of posting book illustrations. They don't really represent real life.

[Little Legioner]

what really represents real life? we are talking about ancient times. not close future or current time period.

it is very hard to reflect ancient times like a mirror.

[PSYCHO V]

Mori Gaesum (Helvetii) by Prom.

[GeWee]

Helvetii? Aren't those rebels? Wow, are you making different skins for all the rebel factions too??

[eadingas]

Of course. That's one of the main big things of this mod.

[GeWee]

I did not know that. I thought they would be generic like in the original game. Personally, since I'm lazy probably, I would have thought it to be too much work to redesign every single rebel faction but apparently you don't and for that I thank you.

[eadingas]

There will be NOTHING generic about EB :) We're trying to put as much detail as is possible, given certain restrictions CA puts on us (limit on number of units, no new factions, etc.)

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

You gotta use primary sources, man.

LOL Read the text, DM!!! Just read the text...

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Mori Gaesum (Helvetii) by Prom.

Beautifull rework of texture, PSYCHO!!!

[Crazed Rabbit]

I can't wait to play R:TW with actual distinct units instead of having "spear warband" as the main unit for all barbs from Gual to Dacia. Not to mention barbs that can actually fight with the Romans instead of playing Mordor and attacking with endless ork legions.

LOL Read the text, DM!!! Just read the text...

Far be it from me to ponder such things, but if the actual column, built by Romans who actually fought the numidians, is based on heresay, then what is that osprey drawing based on?

Anyways, keep up the good work!

Crazed Rabbit

[Ranika]

Osprey isn't actually too accurate much of the time. A lot of Osprey can be stylized or simply wrong sometimes, so we only use it as a source if none others can be found. We've been able to make some very good units though, with plenty of primary and reliable secondary sources to base things from. Osprey is a last resort, and Roman accounts aren't always all too accurate either (like 'lazy Gauls' in Carthaginian armies, despite their statements, right beforehand, how hard the Gauls were working for the Carthaginians). We can usually (but not always),find better sources, archaeological as well as textual, for the units and armies.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Far be it from me to ponder such things, but if the actual column, built by Romans who actually fought the numidians, is based on heresay, then what is that osprey drawing based on?

Like Ranika posted, we use all highly reliable historical sources before consulting other material. Rest assured it will be accurate. In EB, we are ready to recognize when another person, also investigating the issue, has found a more reliable source that contradicts the ones we have. All for the sake of Historical accuracy.

I was just teasing Dead Moroz.

Anyways, keep up the good work!

Crazed Rabbit

Thanks. We will...

[PROMETHEUS]

version 1



Version 2



Ok I would like to know opinions on the following changes I made and what looks more realistic between version 1 and 2 , apart from the shield that now has the proper form that should have....

Things changed

1 shield

2 mail hauberk

3 face

4 scabbard

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Welcome back, PROMETHEUS!!!

Regarding the unit:

-Why change the hauberk pattern?
-Face too blurry.
-On both models (in fact, on all Roman models) the scabard is too thin for the gladius they hold. Thicken the scabard a little.

Nothing else...

[PROMETHEUS]

Ok but the mail pattern I made has a deeper fitted trama that was used at the time the one of the game instead has rings as large as fingers , also the colour scheme is more realistic to my opinion and the directions of the lines follow more the body in the second version .... but of course I need opinions, the shield is better like is now , more close to the originals , also the scabbard is taken by the sword so has the same size of it ...for the face , yes is more blurry but isn't more realistic this?



new version slightly modified by Psicho V....

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Ok but the mail pattern I made has a deeper fitted trama that was used at the time the one of the game instead has rings as large as fingers , also the colour scheme is more realistic to my opinion and the directions of the lines follow more the body in the second version ....

OK. After reading your explanation I agree with the mail pattern change.

but of course I need opinions, the shield is better like is now , more close to the originals

IMHO, the shield is perfect now.

also the scabbard is taken by the sword so has the same size of it

I opened your models in MAX and it didn't seem so. It seemed rather thin. Maybe that was because of the texture being a bit small.

Besides, the scabard should be larger than the sword to be able to hold it. Or else it wouldn't fit.

...for the face , yes is more blurry but isn't more realistic this?

Nope. I don't agree.

new version slightly modified by Psicho V....

I see no difference except for the face. And the less blurry the face, the better.

[PROMETHEUS]

I see no difference except for the face. And the less blurry the face, the better

Ok this later version slightly modified by Psicho is a less "rusty" version , personally I think a more rusty version adds realism and should be used for all the other mail textures but I would like to understand if this is just a question of tastes or it would be better to favour a rusty one or a more polished one? Neitherless to say that I still have to add some lighter parts on the abdomen abd backs...

[eadingas]

I think what Aymar is trying to say is, use your version for the body, and Psycho's version for the face, and then it will be just right...

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

I think what Aymar is trying to say is, use your version for the body, and Psycho's version for the face, and then it will be just right...

That is not PSYCHO's face. That is RTW's vannila face. PSYCHO probally reduced the amount of "dirt" in the texture.

I personnaly would go for more dirt but with the standard RTW face. At least until a better one can be made.

[Dead Moroz]

I like chain mail in version 1. It looks really like chain mail. It's really metallic. In version 2 it looks like strange, very wide felt wear. And legionaries now looks like Chinese warriors. You gotta sell your texture to that Chinese mod, Prom.

The face in version 2 is too blurry indeed.

[Parmenio]

I seen reenactors with mail as dark as (2), then again I've seen lighter mail like (1) as well, which additionally tends to be depicted most often in Osprey style illustrations.

[PROMETHEUS]

Ok here there are 4 version , in order



version not rusty and with highlights

version not rusty less shiny

version rusty , more dark

version of CA

I think the third version looks more realistic...

remember that the mail trama of CA is on my opinion too large since every ring seems to be as large as one finger....