Unit Screenshots

[PSYCHO V]

Beautiful Triarii !! great mail and shield

again I'd shorten the mail to about half of what it is currently below the belt.

[PROMETHEUS]

Actually, that one is the original. Sorry probably confused you becasue I named the original II and the moded one I

No i guess i don't have anymore ur version couse i used urs to increase and play around with saturations and similar stuff to add severall layers of enlighted parts onthe front sides....

Aslo about the longness of the mail shirts I have still to decide looking at the sculptures....

For the moment this makes reference...

[Catiline]

Great work Prometheus.

However, seeing as we're beinmg historically accurate, down to the Augustan period the balteus, (the belt and apron combination) was NOT worn. Earlier legionaries (probably for these purposes any equipped with mail) used two crossed belts, one for dagger and one for gladius.

lorica hamata was pretty much self cleaning if worn regularly, so there shouldn't be any rust unless you're making undead hordes...

[Dead Moroz]

I like #4. CA's chain mail together with Prometheus' work is the best!

I don't think it should be rusty. Early Roman army consisted of well-to-do citizens. They didn't spent all their life in wars. War for them was "event". I'm sure they could allow themselves to preserve their armour well between wars and to clean it before campaign. Don't forget that in all times military uniform was something like fetish for humans. Every military man wants to looks as "pretty" as it possible in his uniform.

Their chain mails were relatively new. Because every chain mail is fitted for certain figure, so the armour of father could not be suited for his son and son had to buy his own new shiny chain mail.

Now, think about gameplay, guys. Most of time you'll look at battle from the bird's eye view or something quite distant from units line. I'm sure that dark chain mail with small rings will looks very strange and obscure.

Moreover this new chain mail doesn't even looks like chain mail. Imho. It looks something like warm fluffy sweater... At least like lamellar armour (that's why I think it looks Chinese).

[FinnN]

There's some great stuff going on here and I'm really looking forward to the results. I hope what follows is OK as this is my first post here!

First of all the chainmail, I think the balance between light and dark is spot on in the first and last pictures of the 4. Chainmail would have been very lightly oiled to protect it from corrosion which would eventually occur even if the mail was constantly in use. This results in a gunmetal type colour (mid-dark metallic grey) with and surfaces exposed to rubbing being lighter. Sometimes you will see re-enactors with very bright (sometimes shiny, sometimes dull) chainmail, this is due to them using galvanised (or stainless in the case of the shiny stuff) wire to make the chainmail with, which is totally inaccurate. The thing I'm a bit uncomfortable with is the bands of pieces of chainmail in the left hand picture. As far as I can remember Roman and Celtic chainmail at least wasn't constructed in that way during the period but I could be wrong as I *think* have seen some a statue with similar patterns but I could be confused on that point. In any case it certainly wasn't the norm. I'll have a dig around and see if I can find any information. I do agree though that the CA has the links looking much too large and it looks like yet another different method of chainmail construction. Oh and chainmail can be quite easily tailored for different people as it's possible to add and remove sections. Several surviving examples have areas where this has occured. That said without the technology to mass-produce thin wire, not to mention the very labour intensive 'knitting' process, these were fantastically expensive items.

Another comment I have is on the Gallic and British troops. One of the main reasons that the Romans did so well is that they were extremely well equipped throughout their armies. Things like helmets (iron especially and also bronze) and chainmail were very high status items and would have only been owned by a small proportion of Celtic warriors. Personally I think it would be much better if they were removed from all the troops and given only to officer, standard bearer and general figures. I don't know much about the Helvetii but I think the same thing would apply to them - to my eyes that looks like a phalanx of kings. Oh and the knotwork Celtic pattern you have on one of the British units is early medieval.

Like I said I hope that doesn't come across as too negative, but I'm guessing that some suggestions are more useful than pages of me going - oo cool!

Have fun
Finn

[PROMETHEUS]

About the lines that the mail has this is an optical effect that mail suits make to distance is due to the weight and orientation of the small rings...

Also comparing a real one with the second the second looks more close , the reflections will be made via gloss files and isn't that shiny the mail on the man in fulldaylight, while the roman samples are in a shadow of a hill...
Moroz
Chineese troops used very large squares of embossed leather for armours as seeableon the replicas of clay of Chinese soldiers in the tomb of the first emperor ...


here are
Samples of reproduction mail. Those at top were made by Erik D. Schmid. The finer one on the left can be considered very typical of Roman mail, with rings just under 7 mm in outside diameter. The riveted rings are made from round-section wire but have been slightly flattened. The sample at upper right was graciously donated by Arthur Hendrick. The punched rings are about 7/16" outer diameter and 5/16" inner diameter, and are about 1/16" thick. The riveted rings are made from iron wire of about 1 mm diameter.
Erik points out that the rings are too large to be typical, and their ends overlap right-over-left while all the Roman samples he has seen overlap left-over-right. We will still consider mail of this quality to be very acceptable for our purposes!

here an original one...

[FinnN]

I've seen mail on numerous occasions both up close and at a distance (having been in a reenactment group years ago) and I haven't seen the sectional effect you have in your texture. Here's a link to the Ermine Street Guard (who are a reenactment group at the more historical end of the spectrum) website where you'll see numerous pictures of chainmail:

http://www.esg.ndirect.co.uk/Images.htm

Allowing for the fact that some of their guys could probably lose a pound or two ;-) there's no evidence of a panelled effect at all. The picture you show shows more of a computer moire effect than anything else, the different colours coming from sections of chainmail polished to different degrees and then linked together - again no dark lines delineating horizontal sections.

I have seen pictures of mail with the sectional effect you have but not those made in the Western style.

Have fun
Finn

[PROMETHEUS]

Sorry may be you didn't saw well couse even in those pics there can be seen lines ... and those are from the site you posted....

[frisian28ad]

Is it possible to give the feathers from the helmet of the triarii another colour? Acording to Polybius they wear black feathers, it certainly would help to distinct the helmet decoration better.

greetings...

[FinnN]

To my eyes the pictures you've shown show exactly the difference I'm talking about. Here's one side-by-side with your skin:



Notice how you have widely spaced dark bands which are missing from the above pics. The lines you see in the reenactors' pics above are from individual rows of links which form a sort of corrugated texture whereas yours seem to indicate something different. I only bring this up as there is another way of making armour which does result in exactly the banding you're drawing in.

Have fun
Finn