Unit Screenshots

[eadingas]

I was just going wondering about that... what with all the gay accusations? Especially for this period.. Theban Band were gay men, and nobody would accuse them of not looking like good warriors.. and I won't even mention Alexander..

[Dux Corvanus]

Besides, it's precisely gay guys who spend all the day in the gym building up balloonish muscles.

BTW, if you're so fond of watching muscled macho men, who's the gay?

[Dux Corvanus]

One thing, more: Prometheus, son't make gaesatae! They'll whine about the size of their ***cks. And North-western Europe can be cold in winter...

[Dead Moroz]

You see: unless you're his boss or his mother, you can't give orders to a guy that's just sharing his talents for free, lad.

Actually Aymar is Prom's boss in this project.

You can't simulate slavery outside the game.

Don't provoke us, dude.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

1) He's trying them to look actual human beings and not Hulk clones. Celtic warriors were supposed to be big and strong, not to be fitness culturists. They shaved their bodies to make hard to be grabbed in a fight, not to show muscles.

No, you're mistaken. It was a matter of Celtic higiene.

2) Chain mails were not made of stainless steel nor polished silver. They were made of iron, and iron gets really dark very fast by contact with air. Now they are realistic. It's more: lorica segmentata -that was used only for two centuries and a half and got again disused fron 3rd century onwards in favour of chain mails again, because of its difficult maintenance- should be less shiny than it is in the pics.

No. Mail was made of iron, yes. But the friction that mail rings sustain, makes it far more shinny than you're implying.

3) It's the 3rd time you unpolitely ask something, and you won't ask again? That's good news. You see: unless you're his boss or his mother, you can't give orders to a guy that's just sharing his talents for free, lad. You can't simulate slavery outside the game.

Please restrain from ignorant posts, because you have no idea of what you're talking about.

[Dead Moroz]

wow.. um.. Rome: Total Bigotry?

anyway, i think the new physique looks much more realistic. they could be more muscular, true, but it's a huge improvement over the cartoonish CA skin.

It's not bigotry, it's common sense! Maybe CA's barbarian looks like cartoonish conans (personally I don't think so). But new Prom's Gauls looks like cartoonish gays. He just went from one extreme to another... And that nipples are really too red.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

anyway, i think the new physique looks much more realistic. they could be more muscular, true, but it's a huge improvement over the cartoonish CA skin.

Too bad that the original skin he posted of the muscular guy, is from PSYCHO, not from CA.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Besides, it's precisely gay guys who spend all the day in the gym building up balloonish muscles.

BTW, if you're so fond of watching muscled macho men, who's the gay?

Since ignorance is you way of life, I shouldn't even bother replying, but I feel like I have to.

Celts were trained from birth to be warriors and they thrained extensivelly to be the best individual warriors possible. They were phisically much larger (because of genetics) and stulkier than Roman/Greeks and therefore the unit must reflect that.

Too bad you have no idea of what we're talking about: Historical reality...

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

One thing, more: Prometheus, son't make gaesatae! They'll whine about the size of their ***cks. And North-western Europe can be cold in winter...

No. In fact, I believe you're the only one that thought of that!!... ...for obvious reasons...

[GeWee]

The new skin is much more realistic. The shoulders could be broader though.
The muscles should definately not be as developed as in the first model. It just looks stupid to have a sixpack where every "pack" is about the same size as a biceps muscle...
Besides, I very much doubt that ancient barbarian soldiers was very much into doing crunches and the like. They probably practiced weapon skills more than they did physical excercises. Not even the professional soldiers like the Romans should have that little fat on their bodies, for the same reasons I stated in a previous post in this thread (half-naked barbarian with 4% body-fat standing in snow = hypothermia).

[aw89]

Just one question: Didn't they use clothes in battles? (the celts)

[PROMETHEUS]

Actually Aymar is Prom's boss in this project.

Atually this is a modding community not a few person's work, I am not hired by anyone and instead I am modding here for free decision as all of us , so there is no a Boss just coordinators , I don't take Orders by Aymar or anyone , I cooperate with others , there is not one or two minds that accept and decide on what is good and what is not good , there are votations and proposals....If the thing is not as I tought it was then please tell me that I will resign from the community couse I don't stand autorities of any kinds....

Then is time to say that the skin is a work in progress so I don't understand all this discussion about the muscled guys ... Moroz is right that as are now the guys look less "trained" but I think he didn't want to mean something like the gladiators or conan but just more defined , wich is ok , the actual texture is very defined in the photoshop , but the game for some reason keeps to blurry it so I will have to increase the contrast level for it....

the Gauls also where not bulkier or more muscled than romans , just more tall since the everyday training of a legionary was really really heavy task...and are really used to fatigue and sustained work , while the gauls on the other hand while where very skilled individual warriors where less used to continual training and fatigue , that is why they routed more easily on the long continuated fights , just becouse they where less used to and tired faster....

The germans where even taller than the gauls and probably since they aborred every luxury , wich instead the gauls liked a lot , probably couold have more "marked" or "signed" bodies in the sence of training warfare and definition , they where described as terrific in aspect that even made fear the legionaries and the gauls , so their aspect should be very worked on....

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Besides, I very much doubt that ancient barbarian soldiers was very much into doing crunches and the like. They probably practiced weapon skills more than they did physical excercises.

The muscular tonus of people of that era cannot be compared to the muscular tonus of people today. We spent everyday in a desk!!! Even farmers today use machines!!! In those days they used their hands. And they spent everyday in outdoor activities like hunting, farming, war trainning, etc...

The most fit persons today (except bodybuilders) are what they should look like...

Not even the professional soldiers like the Romans should have that little fat on their bodies, for the same reasons I stated in a previous post in this thread (half-naked barbarian with 4% body-fat standing in snow = hypothermia)

They used warm clothes and wool covers before they started the battle. They were only naked while fighting. Not while travelling and organizing the formations before battle.

Besides, only some of them fought bare-chested. By 270BC, most fought clothed.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

the Gauls also where not bulkier or more muscled than romans , just more tall since the everyday training of a legionary was really really heavy task...and are really used to fatigue and sustained work , while the gauls on the other hand while where very skilled individual warriors where less used to continual training and fatigue , that is why they routed more easily on the long continuated fights , just becouse they where less used to and tired faster....

The germans where even taller than the gauls and probably since they aborred every luxury , wich instead the gauls liked a lot , probably couold have more "marked" or "signed" bodies in the sence of training warfare and definition , they where described as terrific in aspect that even made fear the legionaries and the gauls , so their aspect should be very worked on....

Why don't you ask that to Ranika and PSYCHO? They will explain it to you better than me. After all they are the Historical experts in the Celtic (Britons and Gauls) Group.

[GeWee]

The most fit persons today (except bodybuilders) are what they should look like...

And that would be what? Gymnasts?
I dunno.. I have a hard time imagining a barbarian soldier spending that much time doing excercises that didn't involve weapons.

I think they looked more or less like present-day soldiers. Some more fit than others... But to have an entire warband consisting of people that have bulkier muscles than Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime is just wrong.

[Big_John]

Too bad that the original skin he posted of the muscular guy, is from PSYCHO, not from CA.

yeah, and it's a huge improvement over that one too.
gj PROM, keep up the great work.
:cheers:

[PROMETHEUS]

They used warm clothes and wool covers before they started the battle. They were only naked while fighting. Not while travelling and organizing the formations before battle.

True...

Besides, only some of them fought bare-chested. By 270BC, most fought clothed.

Germans not but always many fought still barechested as many gauls , but since the gaul campaigns had even winter battles , most probably they wouldn't fight at all barechested in winter , as well as the romans weared full throusers in that time with black leather stribes around theyr legs to protect from cold....

Why don't you ask that to Ranika and PSYCHO? They will explain it to you better than me. After all they are the Historical experts in the Celtic (Britons and Gauls) Group.

Becouse I know history as well ... may be not with the same deepness on gauls as I know the romans but the physical attributes are well depicted on statues and reproductions of the period and none was a conan like man , while instead when you look at the gladiator's paintings you will see that those guys really look like conan and the like , really impressive.....

Too bad that the original skin he posted of the muscular guy, is from PSYCHO, not from CA.

And the original texture is by me from the Gladiator one , and is not even very good....

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Becouse I know history as well ... may be not with the same deepness on gauls as I know the romans but the physical attributes are well depicted on statues and reproductions of the period and none was a conan like man

But they were bigger and larger than Romans.

while instead when you look at the gladiator's paintings you will see that those guys really look like conan and the like , really impressive...

Because they ONLY trained for the arena. Nothing else. And most of them weren't from the Italian peninsula.

And the original texture is by me from the Gladiator one , and is not even very good....

Better than CA's...

I WANT TO SEE THE ROMAN EARLY LEGION ON SUNSHINE!!!

[eadingas]

Thought about muscles and workout:
Muscles - protruding, visible muscles - don't come from physical effort. You could be throwing bags of stones all your life, and not get muscular. Muscular figure comes from particular fitness training. There are machines and equipment that help you build your muscles, why do you think is that? If it were that easy, then it'd be enough to just do a sport, or lift weights.
Look at weightlifters. They are strong and fit, but are they really that muscular?
GeWee is right comparing warriors to soldiers: soldiers certainly don't spend all day at the desk, and yet they don't look like bodybuilders. Pre-industrial farmers - not muscular at all, despite all their hard work. Miners, luggage carriers, policemen - all these people train or work to be strong and fit, but not to have nice, round, shiny muscles.

[Dux Corvanus]

No, you're mistaken. It was a matter of Celtic higiene.

Yes, I think you may be true.

No. Mail was made of iron, yes. But the friction that mail rings sustain, makes it far more shinny than you're implying.

And since that friction was mainly below arm and axilla, and in the inner part of mail the darker sides should be precisely the more visible.

Celts were trained from birth to be warriors and they thrained extensivelly to be the best individual warriors possible..

Yeah, unlike Spartans, Sarmatians or Sacred Band Carthaginians...

They were phisically much larger (because of genetics) and stulkier than Roman/Greeks and therefore the unit must reflect that.

Larger, yes. Stulkier, not. Same exercises and good feeding make same muscles independently of size body, and war exercises don't make the same bound-to-spectacular-volume-instead-of-tone muscle aspect than fitness.

Too bad you have no idea of what we're talking about: Historical reality...

Too bad for you I have a degree in Ancient History. Where have you learnt all that self-boasting jerk? Osprey Press? Marvel comics? Ridley Scott's 'Historical reality' movies?

Since ignorance is you way of life, I shouldn't even bother replying, but I feel like I have to. (...) Please restrain from ignorant posts, because you have no idea of what you're talking about.

Since rudeness and brating is your way of life, I'll restrain from YOUR ignorant posts, just because I have an idea of what I'm talking about. I'm talking about making your childish mamma's-boy requests to Prometheus thru private messaging instead of venting your idle claims for all to see, and I'm talking about politeness and mature behavior instead of whining about every little thing you know or imagine this mod should be.

Good bye, Aymar-the-kid-with-a-pedant-nick. I don't need to read your posts to enjoy the mod, so I'm leaving the forum.

Have a nice day a balloon to play with.

[khelvan]

Alright, if you guys can't talk civilly here (and you know who I am talking to) I may have to lock this. No one wants that.

Also, let's please refrain from all the gay-bashing? I don't particularly want to read it.

Thanks.

[eadingas]

Hear, hear.
We may some day have to release a new mod: RTW MODDING: TOTAL WAR :)

[AmbrosiusAurelianus]

Prometheus, in spite of all the comments you've had thrown at you, I'd like to say that your Celtic swordsmen look fantastic. That's the best looking Celtic shield design I've seen yet, well done. Did you use the Battersea one as a model? If so you'll probably be aware that it was probably more for show than for actual use, but who cares it's only a game?
I like the helmets but the cheek guards are a little bright. The skins also look fine to me. The only slight problem seems to be that the arms and chest textures look slightly off in terms of contrast. I mean that one looks darker than the other. Otherwise very good.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

And since that friction was mainly below arm and axilla, and in the inner part of mail the darker sides should be precisely the more visible.

Ring friction occurs in all the mail. Not specifically "below arm and axilla".

Yeah, unlike Spartans, Sarmatians or Sacred Band Carthaginians...

Larger, yes. Stulkier, not. Same exercises and good feeding make same muscles independently of size body, and war exercises don't make the same bound-to-spectacular-volume-instead-of-tone muscle aspect than fitness.

But "non-barbarian" fight dressed. You can't see their muscles.

Too bad for you I have a degree in Ancient History.

In the internet EVERYBODY has degrees in EVERYTHING...

Where have you learnt all that self-boasting jerk? Osprey Press? Marvel comics? Ridley Scott's 'Historical reality' movies?

I actually read Historical sources. It seems you don't...

Since rudeness and brating is your way of life, I'll restrain from YOUR ignorant posts, just because I have an idea of what I'm talking about.

You have an idea? Sure. A very blurred and foggy idea of something...

I'm talking about making your childish mamma's-boy requests to Prometheus thru private messaging instead of venting your idle claims for all to see, and I'm talking about politeness and mature behavior instead of whining about every little thing you know or imagine this mod should be.

PROMETHEUS doesn't reply to PMs or mails, you jerk! That is why I have to use other methods like posting in this thread.

This was what I was refering when I said "...you have no idea of what you're talking about."

As for politeness, neither you or PROM have anything to teach me about it...

Good bye, Aymar-the-kid-with-a-pedant-nick. I don't need to read your posts to enjoy the mod, so I'm leaving the forum.

Good. I'm glad that you have enough IQ (although surelly less than the regular chimp) to understand that your ludicrous comments are not welcomed here.

Have a nice day a balloon to play with.

Thanks, but I wouldn't want to play with your toys...

[Zanderpants]

Aymar: Don't reply. It's not worth it.
(I don't have a degree. Yet. )

Dux Corvanus: Have you looked in any of the other threads? Aymar is not PROMETHEUS' boss, but he is organizing everything and trying to keep things on schedule. He asked twice before this, and he was not being rude to PROMETHEUS. "Then show me a pic in sunlight." was his first request. Not rude. Prom never replied. Why is this? When I first started looking around on this forum, it seemed like these guys are nitpicking, but they're doing that for a good reason. They're trying to get the best historical representation they can. Oh, and guess what? Aymar has been one of the LEAST critical in the last four pages of this thread. I don't know where Aymar comes from, but his English is pretty darn good, but something to remember, oh mighty history lord (I'm so glad you showed up, because nobody in our mod knows anything about history. I don't know how we managed without you!), is that English is not the first language of many of the people working here, so things get confused sometimes.

Please leave for real. I dunno where you came from, but please just go away. There's enough friction without you.

[The Wizard]

I think it's time for me to propose the famous Dutch 'poldermodel'...

You see, while I think Prom's model looks bloody amazing (where did that shield motive come from? I've never seen such a Celtic shield before...), I also think the men in the formation looks like they got a steroid supplement from their chieftain.

Still, I doubt that the Celts looked so... well, terribly out of shape. I myself, if I was a modeller with the skill of Prometheus (yeah right ^^), would've made them look like men somewhere half between Arnie and what they are now according to the screenshot on the last pic. Not super-super buff, but not like the skin that Prom has provided.

You see, if you ask me, Celts wouldn't have had a really pronounced six-pack and biceps etc... still, they had a better disposition to develop muscles than the smaller, less impressive Romans. Still, in perfect shape they would have looked pretty buff, in the way that it is seen as attractive nowadays... not Chippendale/Arnie, but not weak nerd either.



~Wiz

[Vercingetorix]

I agree more muscle definition. Hell even I have a 6-pack, how much more a soldier or sturdy farmer? Guys I know that worked in construction over the summer would get pretty buff, I'm sure working all day in the fields or training would produce similar results. CA's maybe were a bit exaggerated but not 'conan'.

This is conan:



This Is not:

[Ranika]

I agree with Vercingetorix on muscle definition. As for the shield; it's a peculiar shaped one, with a bronze face plate, and wood back. It's not necessarily ceremonial, Celtic arms and armor weren't always practical, they used a number of things because they looked impressive or frightening, so it could be proper for a unit. Just not a shirtless one. A unit using one would have to be either aristocracy, or a champion who was provided one my his king or chieftan. The type of a shield is a Briton design; not appropriate on Gauls or Belgae, but wouldn't be too bad, theoretically, for an 'elite' Briton unit, or Briton generals (for an elite unit, I'd use the same shape, but with a bronze, decorate boss on the shield, not a full bronze plate).

Celtic warriors worked out a great deal. They played a lot of very rough games, they trained a lot, boxed, wrestled, amid other things, to increase their physicality, all in addition to working on farms, or in a smith, or a mill, etc. They wouldn't be 'Arnold' buff, but they would have definitely had defined muscles; not necessarily bulging out (with some exceptions, like Gaesatae, who did pretty much nothing but work out and fight), but you would able to see them, I'm sure.

[khelvan]

Ok guys, both EB and non-EB, you've gone too far. We are above the petty insults here, or should be. I'm locking this thread.

We will start new threads in the future, when we show a new unit to evaluate. This one has become too long and too confusing at this point, so change is necessary. Take care not to let it get personal from now on, ok? I don't want to have to lock more threads. Clicking the little "close this thread" box is quite tiring, you know.