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  1. #1
    EB insanity coordinator Senior Member khelvan's Avatar
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    Default Europa Barbarorum Status

    The Trivium Organization is proud to present: Europa Barbarorum, a complete conversion for Rome: Total War.

    Europa Barbarorum is a modification for Rome: Total War based on the desire to provide RTW players with a more fun, challenging, realistic, and historically accurate gaming experience. Contrary to popular opinion, Europa Barbarorum is not solely focused on barbarian factions (though the name was derived from a desire to portray barbarians more accurately). EB takes great pains to portray all factions correctly, including Rome.

    Europa Barbarorum is a community modification that has been in existence for many months; research began long before the release of RTW. All of us work on the mod according to our skill, ability, and desire. We have members who do historical research, make modifications to the map or economic system, create new unit models and skins, and a host of other tasks. If you are interested in joining this effort please let us know - all who have the desire to make the game better, more challenging, and more accurate are welcome.

    Internal build v0.3a has been distributed to the testers. This release may be found in the EB protected forum. We will only release a polished product to the public; this includes enough content to significantly enhance gameplay, eliminate ALL bugs, and in general be playable and enjoyable. We do not believe in releasing versions that are "works in progress." To wit, we cannot give you a date for our first public release. However, we are closing toward that goal day by day.

    Map progress:
    Our current internal version is nothing more than a rearrangement of some of the geography features, the addition of less than ten new provinces, and several name changes and such to make things more accurate. Our new map should be released for internal testing in the next week or two. This map is both much larger and more realistic than the current map, having been expanded both north and east, with a large number of new provinces that should better portray the faction and tribal reach c. 270 BCE.

    Those wishing for an even bigger map will be disappointed, as we will almost certainly not be extending it beyond the Indus. However, we are already rushing headlong toward the 200 province limit, and compromises must be made because of this. Our information comes from satellite photography, topographical maps, period maps, primary sources, and secondary information regarding the change in climate and such over the past 2500 years. All aspects of the map are looked at, including mountains, forests, the placement of rivers and fords, resource placement, and more.

    Faction progress:
    Our current internal version contains mostly cosmetic changes to the factions, including making the provincial holdings more accurate, several name changes, minor changes to family trees, name lists, and starting armies. In the near future we will be replacing two factions with new factions, one of which you may be familiar with, one you may not be (sorry, we're keeping this a surprise for the moment). In addition, we have plans for revamping the Roman structure to be more realistic.

    We have made a decision not to fudge with the game mechanics too much in the case of Rome. Since CA decided to hard code the interaction between the Senate and the three Roman factions, changing this relationship causes very real issues, and we cannot replace the roman factions with others due to this hard code. However, we recognize that the patrician family system is nowhere near historical, and so we have a system we feel will be a passable stopgap until we can truly change the way Rome is depicted. CA needs to open up more to modders to make that a reality, however. Keep your hopes up, we are.

    In general, not a single faction will be the same once we are through with them. A great deal of progress has already been made in overhauling them.

    Unit progress:
    We are creating an entire new set of units. We will be using every single one of the 300-unit limit, and even then we have had to make compromises about what makes it into the mod, and what does not. (Rest assured that all the fantasy units got the axe very quickly.) About 75% of these units are made from scratch, we've trashed over 200 existing units, and every single one we kept is getting a new model, skin, name, or all of the above. Nothing will be the same.

    The release going out for alpha testing this week includes approximately 50 new units. Most of the factions have at least a good portion of their units defined. By defined I mean a name given, description created, equipment and clothing noted for our graphics folks, and historical info recorded. Our unit list for units waiting to be created may have reached 200 by the time I post this. Note that this does not only mean the units slated for each faction. You see, our groups have responsibility over certain areas/ethic groups, and we are defining new merc and rebel units for these areas. Some of these may be used for future factions when we have the ability to add them, but some are simply there to properly depict rebels from certain areas, or tribes that are outside of the factions we have made/will be making. As you can see we are leaving no stone unturned.

    Building progress:
    Our tireless mod team has defined an entirely new building system. While the way cities, provinces, and the economy is portrayed in RTW is very abstract, and very hard to make realistic due to so much hard code, we feel we're coming close. While we have defined a new set of buildings I am very sad to say that no work has been done in creating them, since we have no one willing and able to do the 2D and 3D work on our new buildings. So please, if you can do this and are willing to work hard, we need you!

    Recruitment system progress:
    We have designed and tested a recruitment system that allows us to define an area where troops can be recruited on the individual unit level. Thus we are able to make the creation of units entirely regional, except for certain factions that raised foreign armies. Originally born of the "homelands" concept from Wes's MedMod (we have several members who worked on the MedMod project), we are refining this to be as true to life as possible.

    Naval system progress:
    There is lots of hard code to deal with here, but we are working on an idea we think will make navies more realistic, and give the AI less of a hard time. Bear with us as we work out the details.

    Multimedia progress:
    Recently, the Voice mod team merged with EB, and became active members. This is fortuitous for both projects, as our skills and knowledge are complementary. I am happy to report that since this merger, Shigawire has been able to find people from EB to fill in many of the gaps he had as far as languages are concerned. There is still work to be done, but things are looking bright! Just wait until you hear a barditus!

    We have a musician doing custom work for EB. We are providing him with samples of period instruments from the different ethic groups/cultures of the time, and he is putting together music. We are very excited by this. In addition, we have an artist working on a custom splash screen picture. We have not yet begun it, but we will have a custom intro video, as well as new videos for each faction.

    Economic system progress:
    This is tough going, because of the limitations CA has placed on us through not exposing the AI routines, and hard-coding much of the economic interactions such as resources, base farm levels, trade routes, and so on. We really need CA to open some things up for us to truly make this better and more challenging. We're doing our best, but the reality is that we may need to make one provincial campaign per faction for the human player to have a truly challenging experience. Unless, of course, CA helps us out in one of their upcoming patches. Keep your hopes up!

    A bit of history:
    Europa Barbarorum was conceived during the development of Rome: Total War, in the calendar year 2003. Members of the EB project wanted to gather historical information about the factions and units RTW was to depict, in order to help CA portray them accurately. Given information that had come out regarding the completely baseless portrayal of barbarian factions, the members had hoped to provide enough of a research base to make a difference. No one listened. So, the group took it upon themselves to make a modification using this information, and more. This project is the result of that determination.

    In all things we do, the primary focus of EB remains historical accuracy. We believe that realism and fun can, and will, go hand in hand. Whenever possible, we do not compromise historical accuracy - we have found that so far, this enhances both immersion and gameplay.

    Our end product will be historically accurate enough to be used in the classroom as an educational tool. The campaign will be both an extremely fun experience and full of information geared toward introducing new persons to the rich history of the factions of the classical age.
    Last edited by khelvan; 01-15-2005 at 04:25.
    Cogita tute


  2. #2

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum Status

    XAIPETE!

    I just came across this link and it sounds like a great project you have going. I'm really excited to hear that someone out there is taking advantage of this games potential. Great work!

    I received my BA in Classics and I'm big time Total War enthusiast. If you have room for any other testers/devs/whatever... I'd love to help :)

    A simple request for the team to consider... More cultural/religious landmarks. Something along the lines of the wonders we see in the vanila RTW. It couldn't help but add a little color to the game if we included a few notable sites like Bath, Cumae, Delphi, Dodona etc etc etc

    jasonwclark@gmail.com
    Last edited by Diomedes; 02-09-2005 at 12:30.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum Status

    Quote Originally Posted by Diomedes
    XAIPETE!

    I just came across this link and it sounds like a great project you have going. I'm really excited to hear that someone out there is taking advantage of this games potential. Great work!

    I received my BA in Classics and I'm big time Total War enthusiast. If you have room for any other testers/devs/whatever... I'd love to help :)

    A simple request for the team to consider... More cultural/religious landmarks. Something along the lines of the wonders we see in the vanila RTW. It couldn't help but add a little color to the game if we included a few notable sites like Bath, Cumae, Delphi, Dodona etc etc etc

    jasonwclark@gmail.com
    They can't edit wonders or add new ones, it is hard coded into the game.

  4. #4
    EB insanity coordinator Senior Member khelvan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum Status

    We'll be removing them as they exist today (Wonders). They will show up in a province's list of existing buildings, and on the battle map, and there will be more of them. However, their effects will be drastically reduced, and unfortunately they will not show up as separate on the campaign map.

    We consider this a good tradeoff. Removing some eye candy from the campaign map (only) for much less imbalancing effects, more in line with what they might have actually provided to a province (a small bonus to morale, or law, or what have you) rather than a huge faction-wide bonus. Plus we're adding some of our own creation, and as soon as Verci and Ailill crack the building code we'll add more to the city plans as well.
    Cogita tute


  5. #5

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum Status

    Dunno if this was asked already, but i was wondering if the patch encompasses the RTW 1.2 patch as well (u know, the upgrades to the ai and such and ability to see wonders on map)? And i just want to congradulate you on what your doing. Don't get discouraged and settle for less, because you guys are going to make CA blush with embarraseement!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum Status

    Quote Originally Posted by Nothing_Grows
    Dunno if this was asked already, but i was wondering if the patch encompasses the RTW 1.2 patch as well (u know, the upgrades to the ai and such and ability to see wonders on map)? And i just want to congradulate you on what your doing. Don't get discouraged and settle for less, because you guys are going to make CA blush with embarraseement!
    Of course this will be compatible with the 1.2 patch. These guys are geniuses.

  7. #7
    graduated non-expert Member jerby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum Status

    Quote Originally Posted by Nothing_Grows
    Dunno if this was asked already, but i was wondering if the patch encompasses the RTW 1.2 patch as well (u know, the upgrades to the ai and such and ability to see wonders on map)? And i just want to congradulate you on what your doing. Don't get discouraged and settle for less, because you guys are going to make CA blush with embarraseement!
    indeed, with EB this game is becomming everything CA could have made it. it all looks great, btw, can anybody give me the link to teh screenshots-thread. I lost it
    btw how does it feel to keep the entire TW community in tension about this mod.
    any release on wich faction will be deleted and implented?

  8. #8

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum Status

    I really wish RTW would be more modder friendly. Features are impossible to add. CA does a half-assed job and then don't let people fix them themselves.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum Status

    All You Modders.
    Please, please make installation easier. Writing silly little explanations where one has to read the files is not good enough, especially for us who are not IT experts and who only want to try your mod on our systems. Surely with all the brains out there someone could write an installation file for all you modders to use in your own mod therefore making it simple and easy for us “no brains” to install without the crashing and reinstalling that results. If the purpose of mods is for the general enjoyment of all then please understand the frustration we endure trying to get it right. If you want the praise for your work, and in most cases it is excellent, then encourage, rather than discourage, us to install without mishaps, that is describe the process in detail or use a simple installation procedure like the original or RTR. For example I have 24 readme’s for 24 mods and not one has the same installation instructions or in most cases which version the mod is suitable for, and, some of these have the version suitability buried deep inside a mass of files. This is not a moan for moaning’s sake but a plea for us who have experienced the pleasure of adding new life to the game. If it wasn’t for you guys our RTW would be lying on a shelf as done and dusted, so keep up the great work but please make it easier for us in your plans.
    Yours,
    basics.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum Status

    I believe the EB team have already stated that the mod will come with an installer. So no worries!
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum Status

    Our end product will be historically accurate enough to be used in the classroom as an educational tool. The campaign will be both an extremely fun experience and full of information geared toward introducing new persons to the rich history of the factions of the classical age.

  12. #12
    boy of DESTINY Senior Member Big_John's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum Status

    didn't hasdrubal's head get tossed at hannibal's camp in italy? give the romans head hurlers NOW!!!!
    now i'm here, and history is vindicated.

  13. #13
    Member Member anonymous_joe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum Status

    Sure everyone used severed heads as demoralising ammunition. That was done in the crusades, by barbarian armies, by anyone. It probably worked too. Not the kind of thing I'd want to have thrown at me.

  14. #14
    Mystic Bard Member Soulforged's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum Status

    I think the jobs of all the modders is worth much more praise (if this is something like "reverence" in english), an i mean all (of other games too), that that of the actual programmers, and this one will be great, but because the expansion is to be realised very soon then i'm not sure what are you people gonna deal with that, do you plan to start from scratch, adapt it or just ignore the expansion. Another think the headhurlers are an extremely stupid unit with non logics in it. Even if you could take 100 or more mans heads of an make some weakling among your army to throw them, the heads would never cause any harm, at best they could transmit a desease.... and i remember where do i saw an actual headhurler....it was on Gladiator!!!... and it was a german warlord very fear-inspiring, of almost 3 meters high, wich threw the head of the roman scout to the ground... with the best of the lucks he actually may had hurt some insect, but i doubt it. Let's be serious it could be seriously implemented for the barbarians like a secondary weapon of some units that causes moral damage but 0 FISICAL DAMAGE, so they throw some heads (let's say 10 max) and scare the enemy a little (or put them on the proper war fashion) and then charge or taunt, or after they kill and unit just grab their heads and throw them. But seriously did somebody think that in real life the heads will actually hurt (FOR GODS SAKE!!!)? And about the moral damage... it is very doubtful, i think that if the units varely trembled when seeing their partners being cut in two pieces by two-handed axes or their entrail outside the body, then a dead head of some unknow guy will be like... oh yes another dead well... (Thanks for reading this, very long indeed even for me)
    Last edited by Soulforged; 08-03-2005 at 08:59.
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  15. #15
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Europa Barbarorum Status

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulforged
    Another think the headhurlers are an extremely stupid unit with non logics in it.
    Indeed, though historically there are some cases where severed heads were used to scare the enemy, as weapon it is nonsense. So we need not fear that they will be in EB.

    On your question about the expansion for R:TW, the EB-team has decided to wait and see if the improvements in the expansion are worth the switch. Whether there will be an Europa barbarorum project for the time period of the expansion is not yet known.
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  16. #16
    Somewhere out there Member vizigothe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum Status

    i dont mind waiting at all im not doing anything anyway

    so i would like to thank you for all your hard work

    and since i run a warehouse these are my words of advice

    WORK FASTER YOU SCUMBUMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


    In Pace Requiescat.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum Status

    I'd hope that if EB do make the switch, they do it over the new campaign so we get civil wars etc in the original time frame!
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum Status

    Quote Originally Posted by khelvan
    The Trivium Organization is proud to present: Europa Barbarorum, a complete conversion for Rome: Total War.

    The TTO is no more - It has been been transformed in the NTO (New Trivium Organization) ... so I assume that the EB no longer requires to use the TTO trademark. Still EB is entitled at the TTO legacy - so its up to the EB managers to decide what they will do with the TTO trademark inside or outside EB.
    Last edited by Callatian; 11-30-2005 at 14:49.
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  19. #19
    EB insanity coordinator Senior Member khelvan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum Status

    EB v0.4a has been uploaded. v0.4a is an alpha version available only to internal testers, at this time.
    Cogita tute


  20. #20

    Smile Re: Europa Barbarorum Status

    I am a patient anticipator of this Classic Project and have been following closely for half a year at least.

    If I might be usefull in any way my primary education is that of Historian, I obtained a Masters in modern history in 1999, then went on in Politics, Conflict Precention etc. etc.

    I have been a fanatic of Greco-Roman period history since I was a toddler probably

    I know the geography of the Roman world, my work has taken me into all areas of the CIS, the Balkans, Greece, and all of the EU... I grew up in North Africa.

    I adore primary sources, and have read much of the period's first hand documents that I could ever get my hands on.

    I would love to see you Europa Babarorum include some sort of Supra-national entity for the Helenic League, which continued to be a reason only the Romans managed to finally defeat the Greek world.

    Ideally Carthage should have a Senate like Rome's

    A similiar system could be used to control the "Barbarian Factions" but real unity and frequency of infiting would probably be hard to portray

    Anyways, what has been presented to the outside is amazing so far, and this mod could be the best historical piece of software to ever hit the Strategy Gaming World.

    There was a funny little game years ago from Electronic Arts called Centurion

    This game had wonderful elements of Diplomacy very reflective of historical elements in Romam diplomacy... RTW really lacks in terms of diplomacy... but some minor concrete changes could significantly enrich it.

    1) Protectorates should be enriched, and the player should have the right to draft protectorate state's forces into own services, as for example Carthage the Numidians, or the Seleucids the Persians, Carthage the Iberians.

    Protectorates should be akin to colonization.

    2) For Barbarian factions it would be good to see a random unit skin generator that gives slightly different skins for each unit drafted. The Barabarian factions are too uniform in appearance. Barbarian factions represented, comparing to Greeks and Romans, lack of overarching physical dogma, and warriors armed themselves as they wanted.

    3) On the topic of the Steppe. The Sarmatians should exist appart from Scythians. But both should be represented.

    4) I would love to see great cities start great at the onset of the game period. I hope EB amends population values to be more realisic. That is to say that 10X of what RTW vanilla represented. Carthage 200,000 in 280 BCE for instance

    5) Rebellions, which are ever important should start mostly in the provinces, and not in cities. If they start in cities then units should be placed randomly (or around barracks/stable/ central square) on the battle map. City rebels should be less powerful than provincial rebels. Rome and Greece should have frequent rebellious would-be-consuls and would-be-tyrants appearing in the field.

    Impossible changes I know... but a little vision is what EB seems to be about!

  21. #21
    Member Member ah_dut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum Status

    I would love to see you Europa Babarorum include some sort of Supra-national entity for the Helenic League, which continued to be a reason only the Romans managed to finally defeat the Greek world.
    I believe we have implemented a hellenic league...

    Ideally Carthage should have a Senate like Rome's
    Impossible due to hardcoded issues


    1) Protectorates should be enriched, and the player should have the right to draft protectorate state's forces into own services, as for example Carthage the Numidians, or the Seleucids the Persians, Carthage the Iberians.
    Agree but think this also is impossible


    2) For Barbarian factions it would be good to see a random unit skin generator that gives slightly different skins for each unit drafted. The Barabarian factions are too uniform in appearance. Barbarian factions represented, comparing to Greeks and Romans, lack of overarching physical dogma, and warriors armed themselves as they wanted.
    I am sure that this is impossible

    3) On the topic of the Steppe. The Sarmatians should exist appart from Scythians. But both should be represented.
    Check with Khel but I think this is in there...


    4) I would love to see great cities start great at the onset of the game period. I hope EB amends population values to be more realisic. That is to say that 10X of what RTW vanilla represented. Carthage 200,000 in 280 BCE for instance
    In game issues...200,000 people, imagine the Squalor...

    5) Rebellions, which are ever important should start mostly in the provinces, and not in cities. If they start in cities then units should be placed randomly (or around barracks/stable/ central square) on the battle map. City rebels should be less powerful than provincial rebels. Rome and Greece should have frequent rebellious would-be-consuls and would-be-tyrants appearing in the field.
    Another thing we'd love to do but impossible due to circumstances beyond our control

    I hope this helps mate

  22. #22
    (Insert innuendo here) Member Balloon Bomber Champion DemonArchangel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum Status

    EB's motto should be: "Making a great game better."
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  23. #23

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum Status

    Can't wait for the mod!

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  24. #24
    robotica erotica Member Colovion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum Status

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonArchangel
    EB's motto should be: "Making a great game better."
    Or alternatively:

    "Taking potential and capitalizing on it."
    robotica erotica

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