Ouch. Did you guys see this?

[Excalibur Bane]

I was poking around the Matrix games site, as I do for mainly Star Empires stuff and a blurb from one of their upcoming games jumped out at me:

"Favoring the grandeur and hand crafted look of miniature figures we are eschewing the current gaming trend toward ultra realism."

So I examined that, since it was titled Tin Soldiers: Alexander The Great. That's definately a blow directly at RTW for sure. But it gets better.

"Our artists spend their time drawing hundreds of individually adorned soldiers rather than countless hours animating clones of identically clad animations scratching their backsides!"

Ooooh. Now that's just...wrong. I dunno but there should be a limit somewhere on the amount of smearing you can do to the competition. If I was an artist on CA, I would be seriously pissed. The game doesn't even look that good, is what's even worse.

[admiral666]

:off topic: err... to any and all administrators, im going to be afk for a while. dont delete my account,for i will come and post and/or browse when i can.
thank you. end of :off topic:

err....*can't think of a reply...walks away whistling casualy.*

[Lonewarrior]

*runs away*

Edit: *turns on corner and gets into car, then drives away*

[Colovion]

I wish all the soldiers in RTW were individual as well.

I'll take a bug free and polished product over... oh wait....

nvm

[Oaty]

Link please!

[Thrudvang]

Screenshot of the game.

Looks like it's trying to mimic tabletop wargames while calling itsself a Total War Killer or something.

I dont get why different looking units is so special:

1.Graphics dont mean anything, it's the gameplay that matters
and
2.Ever heard of the word 'Uniforms'?

[Ikken Hisatsu]

jesus, that game has terrible graphics, yet they bag RTW? lolocaust.

[Sin Qua Non]

Well, I bet they won't be any graphics card issues!

If they have a demo, I'll give it a spin.

[Soulflame]

A phalanx of 4 how neat. Seriously, if this was released in 1998, "maybe" it would be nice...

[The Marcher Lord]

Looks primitive, very primitive - I bet that would run on my old ZX Spectrum and not use up all of its 48k memory

[Al Shama'ar]

the laughable fools...

It's not this kind of competition (and bragging) that will have the designers and developers in CA on their toes trying to improve our beloved games.

Not that i'm complaining, since there's nothing out there near as good, within the genre.

Al

[Kommodus]

"Favoring the grandeur and hand crafted look of miniature figures we are eschewing the current gaming trend toward ultra realism."

"Our artists spend their time drawing hundreds of individually adorned soldiers rather than countless hours animating clones of identically clad animations scratching their backsides!"

Oh well, it's their loss. They're just trying to put a positive spin on the fact that their game is already incredibly dated. True, units in RTW are composed of soldiers that look identical, but it is the first game of its kind - future games, running on more powerful PCs, will get better. Besides, RTW probably does have hundreds of different unit types.

The move towards realism in some games is a positive step, even if exact realism is not captured. It'll take time to fine-tune all the details, but progress is clearly being made.

If I were CA, I would just laugh. This new (old) game will offer no competition.

[henoch]

:-----> "HA- HA"

[Loopy]

I don't really understand the concept. If you truly enjoy tabletopping with actual minatures why wouldn't you just go ahead and do that. Playing a table top simulation on a computer seems kind of silly. I certainly wasn't impressed by the graphics.

[ah_dut]

Is this a joke? doom I looked a tad better than this and AOE I defininantly did...now RTW and Doom III will take this game a long way down in terms of graphics and UI

[Pomerium]

It looks a sad attempt to bandwagon on to the popularity of RTW. It may not have the graphic problems but why would you want something that looks so goofy?

[Procrustes]

Matrix is a good company, though I admit that “Tin Soldiers” has not appealed to me at all. They make some really good computer wargames. They took the old Steel Panthers game and re-worked it into “Steel Panthers World At War” – which you can download for free. (They make money off it by selling four “megacampaigns” they developed.) It’s a great game if you are into WW2 tactical combat – kinda like a simpler version of Squad Leader (the old board game). They also have a game called “Korsun Pocket” that I really like – more operational level, akin to TOAOW series but more developed. They released for free a re-work of Gary Grisby’s old “War in Russia” – crude graphics but very addictive. They recently put out “War in the Pacific” which has gotten lots of good reviews, though I haven’t tried it. There are a few other titles that are in the works or have been released – you can get an overview from here: http://www.matrixgames.com/default.asp. Check out the forums if you want to see what people are saying about their games.

“Tin Soldiers” has been in the works there for a while now, and just got released. Although I haven’t been impressed, there seem to be a number of other people who are. I think Matrix is just a “proud parent” at this time – I wouldn’t make much of any of those comments. As was pointed out, they are very different game systems. (TS is turn based, for one. And criticisms of the animations in TW sound hollow once you see the ones used in the Tin Soldiers flash demo.)

There was a pre-release review of TS on the Wargamer a while ago: http://www.wargamer.com/reviews/tin_...ew/Default.asp.

[Sin Qua Non]

What Procrustes is saying is why I'd like to try a demo. It's no doubt that the graphics are VGAtastic, and their cliam of "hand crafting" is laughable, since they look quite generic in some respects. But then again, I occasionally dust off Talonsoft's West Front, and Alpha Centauri is one of my top 3 favorite turn based games. I'm not expecting the usurper of RTW, but who knows, it may not be half bad! They should probably tone down on the similarities with tabletop gaming though.

Of course, I have the Axis & Allies board game, and although there is an A&A computer game, I was never interested. Sure, it cuts down on dice rolls and set up time, but I like setting up the board!

[Warhammer]

As an avid gamer, I can say there is certainly a place for miniature games on the computer. Matrix is a niche company. They are not going for the general gaming crowd, they are going after the grognards. For them, Tin Soldiers looks like it will be ideal.

Having played games like Battletech on the table for years, I finally played it online via Megamek, a direct port of the game. All the optional rules which we never played with on the table due to the paperwork, we were able to play with because the computer handled all the calculations under the hood.

Plus the fact that there are only four units per unit is a standard miniature way of showing what formation a unit is in. All units facing the same direction is line formation, each one facing a different direction is a square, etc.

[Zild]

I don't really understand the concept. If you truly enjoy tabletopping with actual minatures why wouldn't you just go ahead and do that. Playing a table top simulation on a computer seems kind of silly. I certainly wasn't impressed by the graphics.

I hate to say it but some people just don't have the time!

I have lots (and lots and lots) of Warhammer 40,000 / Epic miniatures at home, but I don't have the time to paint them all and then wade through the rules during games - playing it on a computer is a lot cheaper and a lot quicker. Despite this, I'd rather be playing on a tabletop, but there just aren't enough hours in the lifetime...

As for Tin Soldiers... Well, whilst I paid the money for RTW and now can't play it (damn you, uber-graphics!) I'd rather not pay any money for TS even if I can play it... It just looks so awful :(

As for each unit looking different, I would be surprised. More likely they have a number of different unit graphics for each type, so after maybe the tenth unit they start repeating. Either that, or they're wasting your hard drive (and mem?), or they are limiting you to a very small army!

Suddenly, I feel compelled to take back everything bad I've said about RTW... CA, I still love you guys! (And if you're looking for more employees... )

[Grumfoss]

Really Tin Soldiers cannot compete with RTW either on quality or production values. No comparision really, I remember when I used to build and paint my figures for table top gaming, they always looked the same (for speed of painting) so all the troops in RTW looking the same makes no difference to me. The game is excellent ( a Bit Buggy but Hey patches can sort that out )

[element]

Dont walls improve the happiness of your civilians somewhat though? I thought I read somewhere that it makes them happier because they feel more protected. I assume if this is the case the better walls the more happy the civilians.

[lismore]

Dont walls improve the happiness of your civilians somewhat though? I thought I read somewhere that it makes them happier because they feel more protected. I assume if this is the case the better walls the more happy the civilians.

yes I have found that to be true.

[Oaty]

Dont walls improve the happiness of your civilians somewhat though? I thought I read somewhere that it makes them happier because they feel more protected. I assume if this is the case the better walls the more happy the civilians.

I do'nt think its true but it is possible for a wall to reduce the culture penalty. Lets say you take Carthage as Scipii and you see that stonewall that looks like sandstone. If there is a culture penalty there building a Roman greystone castle wall will usually reduce the culture penalty by 5 percent in most cases.

[Crazed Rabbit]

How is it grand to have a total of 20 units battling? Personally, I think the system that TW games use is much better.

But if they get their kicks off claiming their Pentium 1 graphics are good, (yeah, its kinda blurry, but if it wasn't, you could see how different they were!) let them have their fun. (Also, I saw some similar units in that one screenshot)

Crazed Rabbit

[Sin Qua Non]

I do'nt think its true but it is possible for a wall to reduce the culture penalty. Lets say you take Carthage as Scipii and you see that stonewall that looks like sandstone. If there is a culture penalty there building a Roman greystone castle wall will usually reduce the culture penalty by 5 percent in most cases.

I had no idea! *Runs off to rebuild all foreign walls*