Why are there so few historical battles available?

[RobN]

I can't find many around. I'm surprised that more haven't been made.

On top of that, all of the in-game ones I have (from the UK release of MTW & VI combined) are viking ones - none later.

Alrighty then, I'll make my own.

[Mithrandir]

Be sure to post it here RobN, you can upload them through the link on the frontpage (Medieval -files -uploads). So more people can d/l and enjoy them :)

[Dragoncrusader]

Hi
I think that it simply reflects what part of the game people are interested in. Most folk seem to be interested in the Strategy side of the game and are not so interested in the Battle side by itself. Hence the large number of 'mods' but very few historical battles.
However if you look at the top of the forum, a few of us historical types have written a guide to creating historical battles and it is not so time consuming given the wonders of 'cut and paste'. Please post up there any further information that you find or if you manage to create a few of your own battles. The aspect that I like is that you can alter the way the ai behaves - but I am still experiemneting at present.

[Maeda Toshiie]

Strange, when I started on STW first, I was a little turned off by the risk style of map and played the historical battles (and historical campaigns) first. They were fantastic even till today. It was only later did I warm up to the strategy side of things.

The historical battles and campaigns of MTW were very enjoyable, though much harder than what I expected. Wish there were more available.

[Dragoncrusader]

The thing that I enjoyed about the historical campaigns is that it made you think about your tactics and got away from the slaughter the enemy syndrome. The best ones for that were the Barbarossa campaign where you had to defend a waggon train and capture a village, etc in order to win the battle. Also I loved the Saladin one where you had to turn and run from the enemy up the hill and then turn again to face them in order to defeat them. I am trying to write some of my own battles along those lines at the minute.

[mercian billman]

I was sort of disappointed about the lack historical battles as well, but the HTW mod comes with a bunch of historical battles and there some available for download that will work with the mod.

Also what kind of battles will you be creating? I've never been a modder and can only comend you for your efforts, good luck:)

[Dragoncrusader]

Creating your own historical battles is very very simple. Have a look at the guide we have written - it is sticky at the top of the Main Hall. In short all you have to do is to down load a text editor, try www.notetab.com it is free and downloads very quickly. Then just copy one of the existing historical battles like Bannockburn into a new folder, open up the files and start changing things. The files are very simple text files and it is all laid out logically. If you can cut and paste, type some text and are happy to look up information in those text files in the top of the MTW menu tree, then you can create your own battles.
In order to test things as I go along, I have Notetab open and then start my copy of MTW. If I go back to the top menu of MTW, I can press the Start button key (the one with the Microsoft badge on the keyboard) to get out of MTW, and switch to Notetab using the icons at the bottom of the screen. Makes some changes, save them and then return to MTW to try them out. You do not crash MTW if you are on the top menu screen.
I would encourage you to have a go, I know nothing about modding but picked up the technique so easily. I orginally wrote the guide to remind myself what to do as I discovered things.

I have just finished two battles, my original test one call the Pass of Death which uses the ai to ambush a column of knights moving through a mountain pass. The second is the Battle of Ascalon where the Crusaders attack an Egyptian camp. In both cases I have tried to be a little sneaky - if you read the introduction carefully you will win the battle but if you do not, you will have a fight on your hands. The next project is the Battle of Dorylaeum where a surrounded Crusader army is rescued by another army, the Field of Blood where you cannot win as the Crusaders but you have to perform a couple of tasks before you die! And the Battle of Ain Jalut where the Mamluks ambush the Mongols and defeat them. I will post them on the site when I learn how to!

[RobN]

I was thinking of doing some of the famous battles of the period, but I can't find much info on them. MTW includes some maps, though I don't know how accurate they are.
Almost any real battle would have to be scaled down considerably though - armies typically consisted of tens of thousands of men.

[Dragoncrusader]

There are two points that I would make here. Firstly, so long as you keep the relative strengths of the opposing armies the same and aim to capture the 'flavour' of the battle - the essential points - I think that you achieve your aim without having 40,000 troops on the field.
Secondly there are lots of battles from the Crusades that are very small. King Baldwin at the Battle of Azaz in May 1125 had the armies of Antioch, Edessa and Tripoli but the total force only numbered 1,100 cavalry and 2,000 infantry. Likewise Roger Prince of Antioch at his famous victory of Tel-Danith in 1115 fielded a force of 2,000 infantry and cavalry combined against a force from Damascus led by Ilghazi of 5,000. Your main problem with these battles is making them winnable by the Crusaders when they are outnumbered so heavily. I am aiming to do this by setting the victory conditions so that a battle is won when 60% of the enemy is defeated - recreating the 'collapse' in morale that often happened to Medieval armies.
Likewise with the maps, I would aim for getting the essentials right - the funnel effect at Agincourt - the steep slopes at Lewes - rather than trying to recreate an accurate map.
In many cases when you read the original accounts from the day, they are so vague as to defy modern accurate interpretation. But after all that is the fun of history - interpreting (and arguing about) the facts!

[Dragoncrusader]

OK guys, I have sent the first two battles to be uploaded... The Pass of Death and Ascalon. So when they appear on the download section give them a go and let me know what you think.
thanks

[Dragoncrusader]

A slight delay as I cannot seem to get the files uploaded. I have about 6 battles ready to go, so if you would like to try them send me a private message and I will email them to you.