My resignation from moderating the Dungeon

**Duke John** · 10-29-2004, 13:43

This may come as a surprise, but while I do have reasons I will not explain them here since I don't want to be accused of complaining, CA bashing or whining.

I don't know who the next moderator will be, but you will hopefully found that out soon enough.

I wish you all the best of luck with your modifications and I hope that this community continues working together so admirable as it has done in the past.

**tombom** · 10-29-2004, 14:14

Originally Posted by Duke John

This may come as a surprise, but while I do have reasons I will not explain them here since I don't want to be accused of complaining, CA bashing or whining.

I don't know who the next moderator will be, but you will hopefully found that out soon enough.

I wish you all the best of luck with your modifications and I hope that this community continues working together so admirable as it has done in the past.

This is a shame. You were a great mod (and modder) DJ. I expect you have good reasons for your resignation. I do wonder who will take over (thinks about good people in the community...).

**CBR** · 10-29-2004, 14:27

Sad to see you go Duke John

I plan to wait for the patch and see what that brings. Although I dont have high hopes, its the only thing left.

CBR

**Soulflame** · 10-29-2004, 14:53

Originally Posted by tombom

You were a great mod (and modder) DJ.

I think he's just laying down his function as moderator, not the modding of games, right? If you stop modding, the end is nigh!

**Duke John** · 10-29-2004, 16:14

Thanks for letting know that I at least did my job right

I just have to get it of my chest. Since I'm not that interested in the ancient period I mainly bought the game for the engine. CA said we would get a very moddable game. So I expected at least the same moddability as M:TW - VI. So when I got it I immediately started browsing through the files; PAK, CAS, IDX, RWM extensions? What the hell? Luckily Vercingetorix and Midnight discovered how to edit those. This week I went through the files again; more CAS files unopenable by the CAS editor, ITEM files for buildings, animation still unpossible to mod.

So can we expect CA to give us tools to make the game at last very moddable? From what I have read they are giving us a battlemap editor and perhaps a sprite generator. Not enough to make total conversions. So does the community need to wait for Vercingetorix to crack all those files? Do we need to buy an expansion? Well, I'm not gonna wait for that. My ME:TW beta mod has over 30.000 downloads, it's hosted at most of major download sites, it got a couple of good reviews in gaming magazines. Wasn't that enough for CA to show that mods do sell games?

The TW modding community is in top gear, the speed of how quick mods are released shows that. Then why did CA had to bring us back to cruising speed? Publishing a good game is nice, but if that game is accompanied with excellent total conversions within a few months wouldn't that be far better? You can see all over the internet that more and more people are able to put out professional quality grahics and modifications.

When CA said the game would be very moddable, I expect that they realized that they made a whole bunch of file unknown extentions. The logical consequence would be that they would make a list of tools that the modding community needs. This wasn't the case as the discovered editor interfaces weren't made for us they were made for the developers. A possible release of the sprite generator sounded like a, "oh yeah, those things, yeah perhaps we will release that". When I brought up wether CA would release CAS editors they reacted "We need to first discuss that." They hadn't even talked about us being able to make new models! That is surely the base of a game being very moddable?!?

I wanted to make a total conversion. How long do I need to wait before I have the tools? If the next TW release is over 2 years, is it worth waiting 1 year before the modders have cracked all the file types? Perhaps new modders may think so, but I think that I'm capable of modding everything in the game provided I have the tools. 1 year waiting is then very long sit and I have came to realize that it's not worth the time.

Note that I having personal against the CA employees who come here. I sometimes get the feeling that they want to give us alot more than they are allowed to.

So no, I won't modding this game anymore although I do loved to. And because of that I will stop moderating the Dungeon.

CBR
Patch 1.2 will come soon and hopefully they will fix the controls and MP lobby so that I can at least enjoy a few games. The games I had in M:TW with the Mizu clan were one of the best games I had and I remember them dearly. It's sad to read that so many of your clan are leaving.

**tombom** · 10-29-2004, 17:10

I understand how you feel. It is very annoying. I mod other games (well, only the paradox ones ~:D) and the only reason I do that is that they're pretty moddable (except the maps).

**SpencerH** · 10-29-2004, 18:53

Duke John

We dont dont know one another online yet so I hope you'll take this in the friendly spirit in which its posted.

I understand, to some extent, your frustration with the inability to mod RTW out of the box. Before I read this thread, I posted a comment/question along the same lines as your concerns (in the thread about modding questions). I think you are making a mistake, however, by not remaining as a moderator here. Sites like this are a huge boon for the players of the games these sites support. Many players who are trying to deal with the many bugs/glitches/setup errors found in most games would be lost without the resources these sites provide. After all, what does one expect to learn at the official sites. A moderator of the modding threads who is more than 'just familiar' with the process of modifying games benefits the entire community. Building a TW mod must be an enormous task (much more than I'm willing to take on with some civ modding under my belt). Moderating these threads is an invaluable service to us all, even to those who dont (and wont ever) mod themselves. I think you should view it in that light, and change your mind.

**Spino** · 10-30-2004, 04:14

Originally Posted by Duke John

This may come as a surprise, but while I do have reasons I will not explain them here since I don't want to be accused of complaining, CA bashing or whining.

I don't know who the next moderator will be, but you will hopefully found that out soon enough.

I wish you all the best of luck with your modifications and I hope that this community continues working together so admirable as it has done in the past.

Shane, come back! Come back, Shane! I don't want you to leave!

SHAAAAAAAAAAANNNNEEEE!!!

**The samnite** · 10-30-2004, 04:56

Well, from the short time I've been here you have done a great job DJ. Good luck on whatever you plan on doing otherwise.

I totally agree on your appraisal of the mod situation. Mods are the only way everyone (or at least a large part of gamers) can be happy and the lack of CA support is frustrating. I also agree that the CA guys that post here aren't necessarily the ones holding it back. The reason being I have never seen them respond to this very issue. Seems like their tongues are being tied.

Auf Wiedersehen, DJ.

**Voigtkampf** · 10-31-2004, 11:32

I just saw this thread, and I am amazed to read this… Duke John you are - now I am compelled to say were - one of the Org’s finest. This comes as a total surprise to me. I will miss you, champ.

Dark Age has come.

**dessa14** · 10-31-2004, 11:43

yes the .Org modding community is just about to enter its dark age, with the lack of modding capability in in Rome and the loss of a modding great....
the failure of the Dungeon is underway.
thanks,
dessa

**Crazed Rabbit** · 10-31-2004, 16:40

A sad day indeed. You were a great moderator. I understand your frustration, however.

Will you still be working on your mods for M:TW? Like METW and the Two Crowns mod? I know many people would download the METW mod.

But, good luck whatever you do.

Crazed Rabbit

**dclare4** · 11-07-2004, 05:53

Hi Duke John,

That's really sad particularly coming from you. I just got RTW and yeah the whole thing is really kind of confusing. Its actually almost a totally different game from the previous ones w/c is both good and bad. There are a lot of things that were improved over MTW, diplomacy particularly but I think its because of its being so different from the two previous games is what makes it so seemingly inaccessible. Maybe it will just take time to figure out everything and the thought that everything is a 3D model w/c is moddable with simple 3D Studio with anims taken care of by the engine is worlds easier for the simple modder to do I think (though it is limited by the animations that are available).

One problem is what if the anim you need is not included? Or the unit type you need? For instance in the Sengoku Jidai mod or if you wanted to mod a medieval mod (and a Medieval game with the Rome engine would be super particularly given the improved diplomacy) is the 'musketeer loading' animation included? Or a 'crossbowman loading'? What if you wanted to make a crusade or jihad piece? Does the game still recognize these?

I think the problem stems from the promise that this game will be the most moddable. It certainly looks like it has the potential to be the most moddable of the series but like you said without the proper tools and without knowing where the sandtraps are hidden (like you mentioned unopenable CAS files or some colors not being valid for provinces, etc) it certainly can't live up to that.

again so sorry to hear that,
Clare

**Meneldil** · 11-07-2004, 10:30

The diplomacy mostly sucks in game, because the AI is more stupid than ever.

**VikingHorde** · 11-07-2004, 17:50

@Duke John

My view on RTW is that it doesn't have the same effect on me as MTW had. When I got MTW a little over 2 years ago, I played constantly for 2 months only leaving my computer when going to school, eating or sleeping. I have barely played RTW for a week seens I got it and I don't find it half as fun as when I got MTW 2 years ago. I then started to mod RTW, but the limits of RTW is irritating taking out a lot of fun of modding. I'm beginning to mis the MTW days, but I'm praying for a patch that will make RTW more modable and take away some of the limits. I like modding and would like to continue modding, but only time will tell (or CA) if modding will get better. I hope you will stay around here in the future. If you need more moderators to help you out, then you should nominate some more.

**JR-** · 11-07-2004, 18:12

Originally Posted by VikingHorde

@Duke John

My view on RTW is that it doesn't have the same effect on me as MTW had. When I got MTW a little over 2 years ago, I played constantly for 2 months only leaving my computer when going to school, eating or sleeping. I have barely played RTW for a week seens I got it and I don't find it half as fun as when I got MTW 2 years ago.

agreed.

**tombom** · 11-07-2004, 18:37

Originally Posted by VikingHorde

@Duke John

My view on RTW is that it doesn't have the same effect on me as MTW had. When I got MTW a little over 2 years ago, I played constantly for 2 months only leaving my computer when going to school, eating or sleeping. I have barely played RTW for a week seens I got it and I don't find it half as fun as when I got MTW 2 years ago. I then started to mod RTW, but the limits of RTW is irritating taking out a lot of fun of modding. I'm beginning to mis the MTW days, but I'm praying for a patch that will make RTW more modable and take away some of the limits. I like modding and would like to continue modding, but only time will tell (or CA) if modding will get better. I hope you will stay around here in the future. If you need more moderators to help you out, then you should nominate some more.

Agreed to all of it. The best thing about rome for me is that your line doesn't break so easily. And there are better graphics. And that's it. But I'll never leave, unless this forum becomes inhabited by trolls and l33rs (is that the right word).

**Vercingetorix** · 11-07-2004, 22:55

What are the current modding limitations? No strat map editor? I never modded with MTW so I don't really know what could be done with mtw that cannot be done with RTW. Btw, I released the latest version of the cas plugin which supports animation a few days ago but forgot to post news here :p