Exploits and imbalanced game features

[Bob the Insane]

AI - agree

Combat AI in towns - agree

Retraining - Mostly disagree except I think the replacements should be a zero experience (except where building bonuses apply).

Bandits - Seems alright to me, perhaps some bigger and more aggressive outbreaks would be cool too...

Mercenaries - Are different to MTW in that they represent the opportunity to raise unusual troops types for your faction rather than the organised mercenary bands of the Medieval period...

Bribery - agree, it is so easy it almost ruins the game if you don't control yourself... In MTW it would cost like 30,000 + florins to bribe a full army with an average general and that could totally bankrupt you... In RTW to buy a full stack of one of the other Roman factions army with a general, well you should get change out of 10,000d easily... Add that to the massive amount of cash you roll in once your economy kicks off in RTW...

Units - is all really personal opinion (except for $£*%ing desert axemen )... But should be easy to mod... That said every game where I am not playing Briton, German or Gaul the Britons kick the Germans arses, that looks a little unbalanced...

[zhuge]

Retraining - Mostly disagree except I think the replacements should be a zero experience (except where building bonuses apply).

Bandits - Seems alright to me, perhaps some bigger and more aggressive outbreaks would be cool too...

Mercenaries - Are different to MTW in that they represent the opportunity to raise unusual troops types for your faction rather than the organised mercenary bands of the Medieval period...

Bribery - agree, it is so easy it almost ruins the game if you don't control yourself... In MTW it would cost like 30,000 + florins to bribe a full army with an average general and that could totally bankrupt you... In RTW to buy a full stack of one of the other Roman factions army with a general, well you should get change out of 10,000d easily... Add that to the massive amount of cash you roll in once your economy kicks off in RTW...

Units - is all really personal opinion (except for $£*%ing desert axemen )... But should be easy to mod... That said every game where I am not playing Briton, German or Gaul the Britons kick the Germans arses, that looks a little unbalanced...

-Retraining
Replacements having zero experience is fair with total troop experience getting averaged out is fair if that is allowed for a limited number or troops per turn (say 1 or 2). I guess I also wouldn't really mind getting blacksmith and armourer benefits for appropriate costs. It's mass retraining that bothers me which allows you to regain army strength in too short a time without relying on the logistics of transporting new troops. But well we can always agree to disagree.

-Bandits
Not sure if the actual number of bandits is tied to general public order. I've seen bandits popping up when order was 'green' (happy). Perhaps it is tied to unrest? Does anyone know what triggers formation of bandits? Would be nice to see them advance randomly along trade routes once in a while or march against the local town if they were strong enough.

-Mercenaries
Just feel that they are too common and too cheap. Wandering generals usually get a good choice of whatever local mercs can be produced in the area. I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't want early rushes to be too easy because of merc hiring once you've got a stable economy.

-Units
Well the Britons have chariots...

[zhuge]

Just saw this over at the official forums.
http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotal...ID=13698.topic

Quoting Granville69 (CA coder):
"I can assure you that a patch is underway but I cannot give you a time, let's just say it will be the near future.
I can't go into too much detail but I'm happy to say that the AI will be much improved in both the battles and campaign map, as well as many of the issues which have been spoken about on these forums."

Looks like there's hope for the future indeed.

[Bob the Insane]

-Retraining
Replacements having zero experience is fair with total troop experience getting averaged out is fair if that is allowed for a limited number or troops per turn (say 1 or 2). I guess I also wouldn't really mind getting blacksmith and armourer benefits for appropriate costs. It's mass retraining that bothers me which allows you to regain army strength in too short a time without relying on the logistics of transporting new troops. But well we can always agree to disagree.

I would still disagree that there is any problem in retraining so many as long as you have the facilities, population and cash available.. It is open to the AI to do the same thing... The game turn is 6 months and the recuits are gathered locally...

[zhuge]

Did some tests on Bribery with a diplomat with 4 Influence.
Tried on a Brutii stack of 38 and 40 Hastati each and was able to bribe them for 429 denarii.
I was quite shocked as that is less than the price of a single Hastati unit (440 denarii)

Tried again on another Brutii stack with 40 Hastati, 33 Velites and 40 Velites and got them to join the Julii for 466 denarii.

Bribing generals appear more expensive though. With a 3 Influence diplomat, I tried bribing a Scythian general (I was already at war with Scythia at that time) with 7 units (mainly horse archers and 1 archer unit). For 7825 denarii, the general agreed to join and the rest of the army disbanded.

Tried on towns as well. With a 3 Influence diplomat, Athens (a Minor City) joined the Julii for 17062 denarii. The city had a Governor's Palace, Stone Wall, Academy, Land Clearance, Militia Barracks, Shrine to Juno, Stables and Practice Range as well as the 2 Hastati units of 40 men each inside.

I certainly strongly feel bribing captains is extremely cheap. To gain the loyalty of soldiers already serving another faction, it would be logical to have them cost even more than ordinary mercs who already demand about X2 the normal cost.
Add that to the fact that you are depleting the enemy of units while at the same time reinforcing yours and that these troops are right out in the field already, the base cost should be at least triple or quadruple that of the normal unit's cost. So bribing 2 Hastati units should cost at least 3 X 2 X 440 = 2640 denarii which sounds like a more effective deterrent for uncontrolled bribing.

All tests done on VH/VH settings, playing with Julii.


@Bob the Insane:
Regarding retraining, I do agree that you do deplete population and cash (as you should) and that 6 months is enough time to replenish troops. However, the game is an abstraction. In the game you can only hire 1 troop per region per turn which limits rushes. Therefore we should also limit retraining to 1 troop per turn for balance reasons.
Being able to hire multiple troops for any given city for 1 turn would be unbalancing (unless the AI does the same, depletes its treasury and rushes you with hordes of troops) and therefore I maintain that some tweaking needs to be done here.

[Ulstan]

"That coupled with the fact that they seem more plentiful and readily available as compared to previous games"

I'm glad to see this actually. The AI has actually gone in and recruited mercs in aregion before attacking me! The poor AI could always use the boost, and as I don't user mercs myself, doesn't seem to be a problem.

[Slaists]

Actually, I see AI retrain its troops constantly... I believe, it happens automatically, if the AI (also, a human player on automanage) leaves incomplete units in a town. In my opinion, it's just a plus since it allows the AI to be stronger as well.

[zhuge]

Agreed. I did meet a Gaul general who gave me a tougher fight with his 6 units of mercs (mostly Spanish mercs like Scutarii and some Balearic slingers). I am not opposed to the AI hiring mercs. In fact I think they should when their regions have been conquered and they desperately need troops to mount a counter offensive (which describes my situation above).

What I would prefer is that mercs require more upkeep to maintain (which was the case in Medieval) at least for the player on harder difficulties (if not for the AI). After all they are supposed to flock to the highest bidder, have little loyalty and should need more gold to maintain their service.
Currently cost is about twice base price but upkeep remains the same. For example, Warbands cost 420 and require 200 to upkeep whereas Barbarian Mercenaries cost 800 but still require only 200 to upkeep. Having twice the upkeep would be fair and discourage merc rushes or at least a slightly increased upkeep as a compromise.

I don't use mercs either in my games as I think they are tad overpowered if you have enough cash at hand and want a fast boost. Would like to use a few occasionally for large fights in future though if they came with a bigger price tag.

[Bhruic]

@Warhammer - In general, I agree with you, but I think you left 2 things out. The one is the well-known "stand by tower and commit suicide" issue. I'm assuming CA has fixed this by now.

The other one would be the AIs complete lack of response to the player's movements. This can be seen in non-city assaults, when you can ride units around to flank the AI without it moving, but it is better illustrated in cities.

I'll give an example - I sieged a city, brought up 1 tower, and had 2 sap points. The sap points happened to be far away from the gate, so I moved my army to that location. As per default, the AI was guarding the gates, with the majority of troops by the "default" start location gate. So I did the sap points, collapsed 2 walls, and used the tower to storm a third. The AI did nothing. I walked my army right into the city. The AI did nothing. Only when I went to capture the tower did the AI attack, with the units on the wall. The unit on the ground stayed there and didn't move until I killed the wall defenders and took the tower. Then it went into the "march around uselessly" behaviour you mentioned above.

The AI needs to be able to react to what the player does. If it sees the majority of the player's army lined up by 2 sap points, it needs to move its army to the sap point to defend there. Defending the gate is useless if I'm not planning on assaulting it.

Bh