Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

[SwordsMaster]

ok, looks like i missed a good bit over the weekend. I have to say EC came back with lots of energy!

As of the 3 factions: We need a "Senate" because otherwise the game will CTD (thats what Duke John came up with, look in the Sengoku forum) And I think the HRE+german states is a good idea.

Also the turkish alliance sounds like a good suggestion, It would somewhat limit turkey in the north but make it very challenging at the same time...

About the maps: one of them actually says "1440-1795" which kinda includes our timeframe.

Regards.
SM

[cegorach]

@Senat

I think that Senat should be used for the Pope,

The three auto-allied factions could be Spain, HRE Hapsburgs ( House of Austria) and the KNIGHTS of St.John. Why the third ?
Mainly because it was the last military order, important naval power and was in very good relations with Spain and HRE all this time. This way also the Ottomans should have more troubles with confronting the catholic powers in the sea.

So this way we would have 2-3 spare slots. Which factions should use these ?

I think that Scotland ( allied with France so quite important)or Saxony or Brandenburg, or other protestant german state.

@New units

I have selected new units for Cossacks and new unts available in Ireland only for the Catholic countries.

IRELAND

All units hide in long grass or even everywhere ( except cavalry);

Infantry------>

Omacach - elite melee infantry;

Enniskillen Fusiliers - elite musketeers, 'bulletproof vests';

Oaghancocharan - elite marksmen and ambush fighters;

Kernbannal - basic rebels, javelins;

Galloglaidh - axe wielders, elite melee unit;

Cavalry------>

Hobilars - good quality lancers with javelins;

Taghhoba - good quality mounted arquabusiers;


COSSACKS

Infantry---------->

Ukrainian Peasants - 'cannon fodder', numerous and cheap;#

Molodyki - young Cossacks, light pikes, 'cannon fodder';#

Zaporozhye - 'core' infantry, good musketeers;

Serdjuks - elite musketeers;#

Plastuny - Cossack foot scouts, hide everywhere, marksmen;#

Harakterniki - cossack legendary warriors, hide everywhere, hard to get;#

Cavalry-------->

Storozha - Cossack horse scouts, hide in long grass;#

Reyestrovie - basic cavalry, average quality;

Dzhura - cossack bodyguards, good quality cavalry;#

@Ranika

I implemented all above units for MTW edition of this mod. This version ( 0.7) should be ready very soon.

What do I need ?

First.
I think that some Irish heroes/villians should be also present in both editions of the mod, so maybe you could propose some ?
I need basic info ( where and when born/appeared) + ideas for command-piety-loyalty-acumen-dread for MTW and something similar for the RTW edition. One, most important vice/virtue is also required.

Second.
I made some ( 5 up to now) historical battles for the MTW edition of the mod and I am sure I will do the same for RTW mod in future. I believe I am pretty good in this, in fact some things I discovered on my own and now I am looking for interesting proposals for this kind of battles.

I would gladly prepare one of Irish battles for the MTW ( I am close to finishing entire 'Moscow' historical campaign for the MTW) of course IF I HAVE enough information.
What does it requires ?
1. a map of the battlefield ( I am preparing in-game battlemaps on my own if necessary using MTW editor),
2. info about the battle - fighting armies ( units, numbers, commanders, experience of the units, where to place them), weather and what waere targets of both ( or more) armies.

Battle conditions can vary.

Here is a list of these for the MTW - I am still not sure about the RTW, but it will change.
My discoveries are marked with @

Kill, capture or rout enemy forces;
Kill, capture or rout X number of enemies;
Kill or capture all/a number of enemy soldiers @;
Kill or capture enemy general/generals;
Kill, capture or rout enemy general/-s;
Capture an area with X number of soldiers for X time;
Protect an area;
Destroy objective/objectives;
Protect allied army @;
Protect an allied army until it reaches a marked area @;
Defeat the enemy without losing X number of soldiers @;
Defeat the enemy in X time;

It all can be combined in various ways e.g. 'Don't lose your general and protect the allied army for 30 minutes without losing to many soldiers. If the enemy kills too many allied soldiers you will lose.'

If you hae something interesting contact me cegorach77@o2.pl


@Speiz_Bankurt

Good, I am waiting.
BTW - did you try the MTW P&M TW ?



@EC

For the map. I strongly suggest changing the name of Great Poland's capital to Poznan. Posen isn't really accurate for this time.

Second. Please add another province 'the Wild Fields' cut from Kiev. This would be useful for the Cossack faction, which should start as a Polish protectorate.
Its capital should be Sich and its territory should protect, more or less, Kiev from the south.

I think there is no further reason to explain why should this be added.



@eadingas

'armoured Cossacks' are Polish 'Kozacy' cavalry, the ancestors of later 'Pancerni'.



My regards Cegorach/Hetman

[SwordsMaster]

I think that Senat should be used for the Pope,
The three auto-allied factions could be Spain, HRE Hapsburgs ( House of Austria) and the KNIGHTS of St.John. Why the third ?

How about the period with Spain and the HRE under the same king? (Charles V of HRE, Charles I of Spain)


Another rather aesthethic consideration: How are we going to manage the Family system in RTW?

I mean, in the early modern era, the oldest son would inherit in 90% of the situations, so no "pick your heir" mechanism is allowed.

I suggest changing the "Faction Heir" label for Crown Prince, and having ONLY 1 Crown prince (if that is possible), and the rest of them would be "High nobles", with title depending on the concrete region.

[Ranika]

I can only think of two particularly outstanding Irish commanders you may wish to use, mainly because they were both quite exceptional, one was a flat out pyschopath, and the other is regarded as saint in part of Munster.

There is Aedhan MacDomnall Ui Machoran, also called Aedhan daDiabhal (Aedhan the Devil). (1556-1612, born somewhere in Ulster, not known exactly, died when his brother cut his throat). He sold his lands in west Ulster to the English in secret, and forced his army, essentially, including his brother, into English service by proxy. His brother, Malachai, when he learned that Aedhan's intentions were driven by the English, cut his brother's throat while he was sleeping. Before this, however, Aedhan marched his soldiers into Connacht and attempted to capture the whole of the province. While he did quite well against the men of Connacht, his death cut his conquest short, and Malachai informed the men of Aedhan's treachery, they quickly disbanded thereafter.

Stats (share what is applicable for Rome, I know I'm missing stuff, but it'll take a lot of thought);
Command; 6 (Aedhan was a fairly skilled commander, but most of his driving force was the quality of his men)
Piety; 0 (Aedhan was quite publically an athiest)
Loyalty; 4 (Aedhan was clearly less than a loyal man)
Acumen; 8 (Aedhan was trained in accounting while in England when he was young, also when he probably picked up his English sympathies)
Dread; 8 (Aedhan was a psychopath who massacred entire villages)

Vice/Virtues; Anything to increase his dread, or lower his piety. He was a true, honest pyschopath who enjoyed watching people suffer, and his contempt for all things religious was quite extreme (he personally enjoyed burning churches and executing priests himself). Aedhan is little known now, quite purposely. The memory of Aedhan is horrible enough that Irish and English alike sort of attempted to erase him from their collective memories. Even the English, for who Aedhan worked, hated him. He was a truly disgusting, villanous human being, who attempted to commit genocide of the men of Connacht (whom he personally hated).


Then, there is Tyrone MacNiall Cochoran daGlúindubh (Tyrone the Black Knee) (1554-1654, born in Cashel, died of old age, on his 100th birthday, peacefully). Tyrone is a local saint in a small portion of Munster. "The Black Knee" (daGlúindubh), was a title give to those who were particularly religious. Tyrone was an actual fanatic. Born as a wealthy Irish aristocrat, Tyrone gave up all of his money to the poor, and joined a small militaristic monastary as a lay brother (as he wished to marry and have children). Upon hearing of a possible invasion from the English, he fled home to his clan, and organized them into a militia. Knowing their numbers would be insufficient against the invaders, he had them conduct clandestine actions, pirating weapons, armor, and supplies. He was the one to start the Oaghancocharan. When Tyrone died, he died quite suddenly, despite his being 100 years old (to the day). He told his youngest son Kian that he felt a bit tired, laid down and chatted with his son till he fell asleep and died.

Stats;
Command; 8 (Tyrone was a truly amazing commander, his faith and lingual skills inspired his men to fight, even in situations that were almost assured failure)
Piety; As much as possible (Tyrone was called 'more faithful than Patrick' by his contemporaries)
Loyalty; Likewise (Tyrone's faith and proto-patriotic feelings encouraged maximum devotion to his cause, and to anyone who supported it, his cause being a firmly Catholic Ireland)
Acumen; 6 (Tyrone was an aristocrat, and was raised to be an able mathematician)
Dread; 0 (Tyrone's kind demeanor toward prisoners and his enemies would make him almost totally lack any sense of dread. He was simply too nice)

Vice/Virtues; Anything to increase his faith, a province he's governing's zeal, increase his soldiers' morale, or provide bonuses to ambushing. For Rome, possibly a 'monk' ancillary of some type, he had a clerical monk, Brother Typhus, who served with him directly. Vices, anything that lowers dread by implying how nice of a man he is. Possibly something to lower diplomatic skills in Rome, considering that, while very nice, and very skilled at speaking, he could only speak Middle An Mhumain (Munster Irish) and Latin.


I can't think of any truly amazing battles in Ireland during this period, except one, led by Tyrone (the ambush at Ceanniasc). However, I don't know how to make maps for that, unless you mean, just some basic 'troop position' type thing like found in a history book.

And on Irish units, all should at least hide in tall grass, Oaghancocharan should be able to hide anywhere, they were quite proficient with camoflauging. Omacach, as well, should be able to hide anywhere. All should have 'Improved Hide In Forest', and possibly a bonus in snow (the Irish saw winter as an opportunity to attack a slightly weaker enemy, and they hardened themselves appropriately to make use of the tactic). None should be available to the English except Enniskillen Fusiliers (which the English did use).

[Ranika]

Also forgot, Kerns by the 16th century only carried one or two javelins on them, then used their modified lochaber axes as pikes.

[Eastside Character]

Some news on the map - I extended it more to the north, so that Faroe Islands and southern Finland are present on the map.
If you think we should have it extended to the north even more, let me know, and let me know why too.

@Cegorach

Changing Posen to Poznan is no problem, I just thought the name of that city in english is Posen.
As for "The Wild Fields", well I know you like that province a lot and no problem, I can do it. But still I don't understand your motives. That area was part of Kiev. Sich was merely what we could today call a "terrorist camp" (or at least Bush's administration would call it so). It was no town, it was no city, it was a place filled with crazy warmongers and pillagers called cossacks. Besides, "The Wild Fields" extended further east up to Don river, and even further.
As a final remark I'd suggest naming this (nomen omen nonexistent officially) province not "The Wild Fields", which in my opinion sounds akward on the vast steppes of Ukraine, but rather give it its local name:
Zaporozhia.

Regards,
EC

[SwordsMaster]

@EC

Sweden has to be included fully in the map. That means Sweden, Norway and some Finland, at least at the MTW level.

Although it would be gameplay-wise to open the possibility of land-invading Sweden by including the whole peninsula. That doesnt have to mean more provinces tho.

Zhaporozhye I think depicts better the ukrainian spelling. And the Sich was more of a concept than a physical place, I would call it Hortitsa (The name of an island on the Dniepr where a cossack fortress was located, in the modern-day city of Zaporozhye).

BTW, whats wrong with the drunk and crazy warmongers and pillagers called cossacks? I'm related to them ....Now that Im thinking, that might explain some of my tendencies.....

[Dead Moroz]

It was no town, it was no city, it was a place filled with crazy warmongers and pillagers called cossacks.

You... imperialistic chauvinist...

This was my suggestion for Eastern European provinces during MTW mod. Some most eastern regions should be corrected according to RTW realities, but the main idea is still the same.

[SwordsMaster]

Dead moroz, just out of curiosity, where did you get that map from? It looks vaguely but intensely familiar...

[Dead Moroz]

Dead moroz, just out of curiosity, where did you get that map from? It looks vaguely but intensely familiar...

Bought in Amazon.

What did you mean in your question?

[SwordsMaster]

lol


No, I mean if it comes from some game and-or webpage. It vaguely reminds me one of the Paradox games...

[eadingas]

What are the "Wild Field'' on this map supposed to be? Did Russians have their own Wild Fields, apart from those in Zaporozhe?

[Dead Moroz]

lol


No, I mean if it comes from some game and-or webpage. It vaguely reminds me one of the Paradox games...

Actually it's the map we used discussing mod for MTW. I don't know where it from. Ask Alex Peters.

[Dead Moroz]

What are the "Wild Field'' on this map supposed to be? Did Russians have their own Wild Fields, apart from those in Zaporozhe?

I am surprised that Poles had their own "Wild Field" in Zaporozhye.

"Wild Field" (or "Dikoe Pole" in Russian) was huge steppe territory from Danube to Northern Kazakhstan or even further. So both these Polish and Russian "Wield Fields" were parts of one region indeed. Really it was "no man's land".

[Ellesthyan]

EC, I'd advice you to divide the Netherlands, depending on how many provinces you can spare them, like I've shown in the picture.

My reasoning behind them are this:
-Holland is quite logical. It depicts the most important province(s) of the republic, and was in times of war the part that could be defended by the waterline. Capital Amsterdam.. Duh.

-Generaliteitslanden is the name for the lands that were not part of the founding 7 provinces. They have been conquered by Maurits and Frederik-Hendrik in the later part of the war. Capital Maastricht; the gap between the southern and the northern parts is a little awkward. You might opt for recreating the modern borders, as it's not that much off.

- de Provincie is a name used in Holland for the "backward" east of the Netherlands. They were in power far behind Holland, and have been the battleground for many wars. Capital Groningen; although Utrecht is a well known and important city, Groningen was essentially the fortress of the north provinces and therefore strategically seen more important.

With an extra province to spare, the division of the low lands when the duke of Parma was the commander of the Spanish forces can be recreated. The duke had been able to retake the east part from the republic. Under able generals, the Netherlands was able to capture it city by city. It also allows the general difficulty with defeating the Netherlands from the east to be represented. In this scenario Utrecht is for obvious reasons the capital of the middle part.

[Count, tHe dEmEnToR]

You guys don't bother reading the posts on the original thread anymore?

I made a 3 frame page: A menu, news and links, but yeah, i agree, i forgot the links section. There's a beta avaiable at this URL: http://pwp.netcabo.pt/the_dementor/pm/index.htm
Well my email: the_dementor@hotmail.com See if you like the color scheme and so on...

About the short url, how will it be? Is the team willing to pay for a .com or .pl or .org or .net? Or are we just going to use free short url such as .cjb.net or .tk?

Now about the song i was composing, well, i still haven't wroten it down, but it i've already planned it, maybe in a few weeks ill have it completly ready.

One thing i forgot on the last post: I need a 967x102 banner of the mod please, or i can just do one myself, but i'll take alot of time...
As you noticed, the banner is quite large, the reason is that i planned the website for high resolutions (1024x768 and above).

The background pic is provisory, im waiting for cegorach to send me the original.

[Eastside Character]

Count, tHe dEmEnToR, I'm expecting to make some map screens, should I send them to you so you can uplad them to the page? Or should I still use my own space for now?

SwordsMaster, I extended map in the north to a MTW-extent. I will post some screens soon, I only want to get some few more regions done before.

Ellesthyan, thanks for the info. Still I have a question; is Rotterdam capital of Zeeland or not? And one more thing, Maastricht cannot be placed on such a small territory, will have to move in a bit to the north. I'll show what I mean very soon.

Regards,
EC

[Count, tHe dEmEnToR]

Well, that page is just a template. I wanted to include the other screens aswell, i was going to ask cegorach if he could get me all the previous mtw screens in one pack, but if you need a ftp space, yea you can send me.

Cheers,

[Dead Moroz]

I begin to think that the idea about Turkish alliance as successor of "Senate system" would be cool.

How about poll to finally decide this question?

[Ellesthyan]

Ellesthyan, thanks for the info. Still I have a question; is Rotterdam capital of Zeeland or not? And one more thing, Maastricht cannot be placed on such a small territory, will have to move in a bit to the north. I'll show what I mean very soon.

Ah, no. Rotterdam was in that time not much more than a little fishers village. Besides, it is not even part of Zeeland, nor has it ever been. The Capital of Zeeland is a little difficult to find, but I assume that it's either Vlissingen (or Flushing in English) or Zierikzee. The latter was besieged by one of the Spanish commanders and taken; however it revolted not too long afterwards. The former is the most important port in the province, but not as well fortified as Zierikzee.
Maastricht can be replaced by Breda in the northern part with not too much trouble. I like Maastricht better though.

[cegorach]

TIMEFRAME

For those who do not now P&M TW for MTW I announce that the timeframe of this mod is between 1480 and 1700. The second period should start around 1572 in my opinion allowing more 'reformed' units.



@Ranika

"Aedhan MacDomnall Ui Machoran, also called Aedhan daDiabhal
Command; 6 (Aedhan was a fairly skilled commander, but most of his driving force was the quality of his men)
Piety; 0 (Aedhan was quite publically an athiest)
Loyalty; 4 (Aedhan was clearly less than a loyal man)
Acumen; 8 (Aedhan was trained in accounting while in England when he was young, also when he probably picked up his English sympathies)
Dread; 8 (Aedhan was a psychopath who massacred entire villages)"

For the only one vice he can get in the MTW I will use

["killer3desc"]
{"His habit of torturing and killing has become public knowledge. He is feared and hated because of it. +5 Valour, +4 Dread, -5 Piety. "}

Should be all right, I believe.


"Tyrone MacNiall Cochoran daGlúindubh
Command; 8 (Tyrone was a truly amazing commander, his faith and lingual skills inspired his men to fight, even in situations that were almost assured failure)
Piety; As much as possible (Tyrone was called 'more faithful than Patrick' by his contemporaries)
Loyalty; Likewise (Tyrone's faith and proto-patriotic feelings encouraged maximum devotion to his cause, and to anyone who supported it, his cause being a firmly Catholic Ireland)
Acumen; 6 (Tyrone was an aristocrat, and was raised to be an able mathematician)
Dread; 0 (Tyrone's kind demeanor toward prisoners and his enemies would make him almost totally lack any sense of dread. He was simply too nice)"

The only virtue he will get is

["chivalrous3desc"]
{"This man's adherence to the code of chivalry is the very stuff of legend, an inspiration to troubadours and storytellers! +3 Morale, -3 Dread"}

OR

"paranoidd3desc"]
{"He has repented his sins and claims to be washed in the blood of the Lamb of God. He has taken a vow of personal poverty and donated his wealth to the Church. The Inquisition will find him hard to fault now. -6 dread, +6 piety"}

WHICH one is better ?

I will also use the stats you have propose, even though any non-royal commanders will not get command higher than 6 - they can usually be promoted with various office titles, but because they are rather rebels ( or maybe the first one should be in English heroe list ?) or independent characters I think they can be as good as you have proposed. If you think that 'this Devil' sgould be in english list his command will be decreased by 2 points.



"I can't think of any truly amazing battles in Ireland during this period, except one, led by Tyrone (the ambush at Ceanniasc). However, I don't know how to make maps for that, unless you mean, just some basic 'troop position' type thing like found in a history book."

This kind of map should be enough, I can re-create it using MTW editor.
You can always prepare something using anykind of graphic software ( even Windows Paint is enough) as long as it is good enough to place troops and other objects using it.

"And on Irish units, all should at least hide in tall grass, Oaghancocharan should be able to hide anywhere, they were quite proficient with camoflauging. None should be available to the English except Enniskillen Fusiliers (which the English did use)."

They will be. In MTW all these units will hide everywhere ( maybe except the Fusilers).

"Also forgot, Kerns by the 16th century only carried one or two javelins on them, then used their modified lochaber axes as pikes."

Thay already have javelins, I have some data about the Irish military at that time, but the info about these axes is very important - they will get bonuses fighting cavalry.

Another thing.
In the MTW campaign every faction will get at least 9 office titles ( up to 10). I have no idea now if I add Ireland for the MTW edition of this mod ( not too soon, at least), still please propose some ( including at least 1 religious title) I will have these placed in my data resources for future, possible use.

@EC

"As for "The Wild Fields", well I know you like that province a lot and no problem, I can do it. But still I don't understand your motives. That area was part of Kiev. Sich was merely what we could today call a "terrorist camp" (or at least Bush's administration would call it so). It was no town, it was no city, it was a place filled with crazy warmongers and pillagers called cossacks."

Honestly I was going to travel to Kiev to support the Ukrainian opposition manifestations only to realise that my passport is invalid ( I don't need it in the EU) and it takes about one month to get a new one, damn ! Still it has nothing in common with this province.
I believe that it is really necessary, even though it wasn't a town, but was important enough to be added as one of these. I want the Cossack faction in the mod and they will need one province.
Kiev is not for them, so they need something else.
In fact even though Sich was a warrior camp ( or camps, because there were several of these) and not much more WE WILL NEED IT.
It should be called Sich, because it was known by this name. No 'Hortitsa', please - noone will recognise its meaning, except few of us.


The map should include some kind of 'landbridge' from Finland to Sweden, but nothing more than minimum.

BTW I am sending you the MTW map.

@Dead Moroz

"This was my suggestion for Eastern European provinces during MTW mod. Some most eastern regions should be corrected according to RTW realities, but the main idea is still the same."

Lithuania should be the way it is done in EC's map. It was easy to invade and its borders are rather very acurate.

Regards Cegorach/Hetman

[cegorach]

@Count, tHe dEmEnToR

This will take some time, I am not sure I have this at all it was AlexPeters work.

Anyway I will inform you soon..

[Ranika]

I'll make a map for the ambush at Ceanniasc as soon as I can, and send it to you, it should be simple. As an aside, the town's name, Ceanniasc, means 'Fish's Head'. I always found that funny, considering the town really did do anything with fish.

Aedhan, maybe make him an English hero, since he WAS working for the English, not the Irish. However, my sticking point on that is, he used an Irish army, with Irish troops and such, not English troops. The Vice sounds perfect for him.

I'd say the second virtue for Tyrone, that seems to fit him to a T. Even if Tyrone were in a faction (like, as said, a possible, but probably far off indepedent Irish faction), he'd technically be a prince. While he joined a monastary and such, he was prepared to take the throne of Munster if necessary. While not directly from the bloodline of the current king, Irish Ruire were elected, not usually inherited.

If the Irish were made a faction, just to get this out of the way right quick, could that be simulated? Like, have them operate like the HRE. When the king dies, with no heirs, a new king is elected? In reality, whenever the ruire died, they'd elect a king, regardless of any children he had, but usually it'd be one of his sons, nephews, siblings, or first-to-second cousins.

Office Titles;
Ardeaspag tu Armagh (Archbishop of Armagh, where the cathedral in which Saint Patrick's body is interred is, as well as numerous holy relics that were removed during the Victorian conquests; during this period, he also had to command a defense force for the cathedral and the town, and should maybe get +1 to command)

Taoiseach (Chosen One, the oldest title still in use in Irish government, the Taoiseach was originally in charge of overseeing the elections of the Ri, and was a foreign affairs advisor)

Ceannasaí Faolcú (Wolf Champion, in charge of organizing all clan armies into cognizant combat units, this job required more mathematical skills than it did command skills, as he actually commanded very little, he more crunched numbers to organize the men)

Comhairleoir duiRuire (Advisor to the King, technically, he was less of an advisor, and more of a stenographer. His duty was to copy down all important events in the king's life, including things said that the 'advisor' found interesting or important, to ensure the king's legacy. However, they were also mathematicians and trained commanders, who would lead armies for the king if needed)

Claíomh duIompróir (Bearer of the Sword, the king's personal champion. This man was expected to be the greatest single warrior in Ireland, and also the greatest war leader, aside from the king {who was always expected to be the best, it's part of how they were elected})

Aochaith Peaca (another religious title, One Who Eats Sin, like an Irish grand inquisitor, except his duty was to rally people to fight against Protestants, and instead of personally punishing heretics {there was no legal execution in Ireland for civilians, no matter the crime, though soldiers, including spies and such, would be executed}, he encouraged the populace to do it themselves)

Brehonmór (Great Judge, all of the Brehons (Judges) in Ireland answered to him. He was responsible for resolving high level legal disputes, such as the Ruire deciding to sue one another over some percieved slight, his job was to ensure they did not come to war over it, and resolved it peacefully)

Madra duiRuire (Dog of the King, while it may sound derogatory in English, this was a huge compliment to be given this title. It's purely ceremonial, but it did provide the recipient with many servants to assist them in running their affairs, possible acumen increase?)

Madra Aimiréal (Dog Admiral, essentially a 'Grand Admiral', the head of not only all naval operations, but spies, assassins, and other clandestine operations)

[Dead Moroz]

Lithuania should be the way it is done in EC's map. It was easy to invade and its borders are rather very acurate.

Disagree. Lithuania shouldn't be that huge region it was in MTW and in EC's map. You confuse state and national borders. Lithuanians dwelled in small territory, close to present day territory of Lithuania. But they had large state - the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and Russia - which consisted of many small regions. It was the big mistake that there was only one big region of Lithuania in MTW. Let's not continue this bad tradition!

Lithuania MUST be split into at least 3 regions:

- Lithuania (national territory of Lithuanians);
- Polotsk (former Russian principality of Polotsk; very important town in conflicts between Russia and Polish-Lithuanian state);
- Belarus (national territory of former Kievan Rus Slavs).

There should be also Galicia (not sure in spelling) - the territory around modern Lviv.

[Eastside Character]

I agree 100% with you Dead Moroz. Grand Duchy of Lithuania was a name of a state, which was further split into many Voivodships. I think the split in 3 is fair. Besides RTW is quite a bit different from MTW the way an opponent can invade your province. It can go straight to your capital, not paying much attention to other regions it passes. And controlling the Grand Duchy of Lithuania as a whole was never that easy for a conqueror. It's simply too vast a territory to be easily subdued.

There should be also Galicia (not sure in spelling) - the territory around modern Lviv.

There is Ruthenia, as I believe Galicia is a bit older name and refers to slightly different territory (not only Ruthenia but also large part of Lesser Poland with Krakow).

Regards,
EC

[cegorach]

SENAT

I believe we should use it and all three auto-allied factions slots as efficient as possible, so it means that ALL THESE SLOTS ( senat + 3 factions) should be used.
We want as many factions as possible, I believe.

It means that it SOULDN'T BE Ottomans + Tatars + Moldavia, but either HRE or Catholic states ideas.

I believe that Spain + Hapsburgs + the Knights + Pope is better than
HRE ( Hapsburgs + Saxony + Brandenburg or similar), because actually very many of the wars fought at that time were between the countries of HRE and this way we will have HRE expanding not fighting numerous 'cvil wars' as it was in reality.


Cegorach

[SwordsMaster]

Another general consideration about France:

To reflect huguenot unrest an so on, we should allow in the Huguenot provinces some sort of building that adds up greatly to the cultural penalty and thus to unrest.

Alternatively what we could do is make a Huguenot France as a country vassal of the normal France and tie the war to some building construction event (say a big cathedral or something).

Just brainstorming tho, we have to address the issue I believe and that was the first thing that came into mind...

[SwordsMaster]

cegorach, check this
out. It might come handy as it allows us to specify VERY clearly the conditions under which to build a unit. And how to make them region-specific and so on.

[Eastside Character]

MAP NEWS

I've been working on a map lately, added some regions here in there. In The Netherlands, Eastern Europe, Germany, and a couple more here and there. Screens presenting there regions will be soon. In the meantime, you can see screens showing what I'm doing with the added Northern Europe. I will get in further north, as some of you here advised, so that it will be possible to go from Sweden to Finland on foot.

I have an idea: I've been reading that thread about the triple alliance and the Senate thingy, and I think I have to change my mind. I'm saying it here as I have some other conclusions connected with it. I think the option with the Papacy, HRE, Spain, and ... Electoral States is a good one. I think it's better to have one faction representing states such as Saxony, Brandenburg, Bavaria etc. similarly to (Greek Cities in RTW), than to use some other faction slots for many one-province factions. There also should de some few strong rebel type regions in Reich.

As Cegorach previously mentioned, we cannot afford to leave even one faction slot empty, and the main flaw of the muslim idea is I think that such alliance would not make much difference in the game as only the Ottomans would be a challenge for their foes. While when attacking some weak german state you would not only be in troubles with the Emperor and the local ruler, but aslo with Pope and Spanish Habsburgs. Pretty realistic I'd say.

Regards,
EC

[SwordsMaster]

Good work! the map looks quite satisfying.

And you might have a point about the Alliance. Lets see what other say. I like the idea. Altho that removes the irony of having a "muslim" "papacy". Ah well....