Viking Age: Total War!

[King Yngvar]

Viking Age: Total War

Game will start in the year 900.

20 Factions:

Norway
Sweden
Denmark
Gardariki
Dublin-York
Normandy
Wessex
Ireland
Scotland
Frankish Kingdom
German Kingdom
Poland
Asturia
Al Andalus
Italy
Papacy
Magyars
Bulgar Kingdom
Byzantine Empire
Karjala


Many new units will be made, with a larger variety than in vanilla RTW


We have some people on the team already but we need more, especially moddelers. If you wish to join us, contact me at: yngvarv@hotmail.com
Or write at the Total Rome forums: http://forums.totalrome.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=13


Europe in 900 AD



This is the currently planned provinces, the rest will be added soon...


Units currently planned:

Scandinavian Kingdoms (Norway, Sweden and Denmark):
Trell Knifemen
Trell Spearmen
Leidang Spearmen
Light Archers
Leidang Archers
Huskarl Arhcers
Viking Axemen
Berserkers
Ulfhedin Berserkers
Huskarl Swordsmen
Huskarl Axemen
Hirdmen
Horse Raiders

Boats:
Snekkja
Drakkr
Bardi

Dublin-York
Saxon Peasants
Gaelic Peasants
Bonnaght Spearmen
Dibhlann Swordsmen
Light Archers
Viking Axemen
Berserkers
Huskarl Swordsmen
Huskarl Axemen
Hirdmen (royal guard)
Horse Raiders
Hobilars

Boats:

Snekkja
Drakkar

Scotland
Gaelic Peasants
Light Archers
Pict Levies
Firdacraoiseach
Celtic Swordsmen
Batareicht Swordsmen
Sinoach Warriors
Cleighdemhor Warriors
Ridire Guard (infantry)
Light Cavalry
Scottish Cavalry

Wessex
Light Archers
Saxon Peasants
Fyrd Spearmen
Fyrd Axemen
Skirmishers
Huskarl Axemen
Huskarl Swordsmen
Royal Huskarls
Light Cavalry
Saxon Cavalry

Ireland
Gaelic Peasants (throws javelins, fight with knives)
Raighhangh Berserkers
Kern Spearmen (throws javelins and fight with them)
Bonnaght Spearmen
Iobnaght Axemen
Celtic Swordsmen
Dibhlann Swordsmen
Batareicht Swordsmen
Ridire Guard (Infantry)
Light Cavalry
Hobilars

Gardariki
Light Archers
Slavic Archers
Peasant Spearmen
Rus Spearmen
Armored Rus Spearmen
Slavic Axemen
Viking Axemen
Berserkers
Varangian Axemen (another version of Huskarls, not quite as good)
Varangian Swordsmen (another version of Huskarls, not quite as good)
Royal Varangians
Light Cavalry
Boyars (heavy)
Steppe Cavalry (missiled)

Magyars
Peasants
Spearmen
Magyar Archers
Skirmishers
Avar Axemen
Light Cavalry
Steppe Cavalry
Magyar Horse Archers
Heavy Lancers
Royal Lancers

Byzantine Empire
Militiamen
Psiloi
Anatolian Highlanders (archers)
Peltastoi
Skutatoi Spearmen
Veristitatae Swordsmen
Varangian Axemen
Varangian Swordsmen
Horse Archers
Foederati Skythikon
Latinikon
Kavallaroi
Kathapraktoi
Klibanophoroi (royal guard cavalry)

Al Andalus
Falahin (peasants)
Slave Spearmen
Arab Spearmen
Arab Warband
Saber Warriors
Desert Warriors
Moorish Infantry (elite sabermen)
Mujahedins (means holy warrior, so yes it fits for the time)
Desert Archers
Arab Longbows
Camel Warriors
Arab Cavalry
Moorish Heavy Cavalry
Horse Archers
Royal Cavalry

Poland
Peasants
Slavic Axemen
Slavic Archers
Spearmen
Armored Spearmen
Skirmishers
Polish Swordsmen
Royal Guard (infantry)
Light Cavalry
Polish Cavalry

Bulgaria
Peasants
Spearmen
Armored Spearmen
Slavic Axemen
Slavic Archers
Bulgarian Brigands
Light Cavalry
Steppe Cavalry
Heavy Lancers
Boyars

Asturia
Peasants
Spearmen
Armored Spearmen
Skirmishers
Light Archers
Highland Axemen
Galician Infantry
Asturian Fanatics
Asturian Swordsmen
Royal Guardsmen
Light Cavalry

Normandy (will have a "reform" system like the Romans, take place in between 970-1000 maybe)
Peasants
Spearmen
Armored Spearmen
Light Archers
Heavy Archers
Viking Axemen
Berserkers
Huskarl Swordsmen
Huskarl Axemen
Hirdmen
Horse Raiders
~After reform~
Peasants
Spearmen
Armored Spearmen
Light Archers
Heavy Archers
Skirmishers
Light Swordsmen
Norman Swordsmen
Light Cavalry
Retainer Cavalry
Norman Knights
Skirmisher Cavalry
Royal Knights

German Kingdom
Peasants
Spearmen
Armored Spearmen
Bavarian Spearmen
Light Archers
Heavy Archers
Skirmishers
Saxon Axemen
Light Swordsmen
Swabian Swordsmen
Light Cavalry
Feudal Knights
Royal Knights

Frankish Kingdom
Peasants
Spearmen
Armored Spearmen
Light Archers
Axe Skirmishers
Skirmishers
Light Swordsmen
Frankish Swordsmen
Light Cavalry
Feudal Knights
Frankish Knights
Royal Knights

Italy
Peasants
Spearmen
Italian Spearmen
Langobardian Axemen
Light Swordsmen
Italian Swordsmen
Venetian Infantry
Light Archers
Heavy Archers
Venetian Archers
Crossbowmen
Venetian Crossbowmen
Light Cavalry
Feudal Knights
Royal Knights

Papacy
Peasants
Spearmen
Italian Spearmen
Light Swordsmen
Italian Swordsmen
Brothers of Camael
Brothers of Michael
Holy Virgin Brothers
Light Archers
Heavy Archers
Crossbowmen
Light Cavalry
Feudal Knights
Royal Knights

Karjala
Korpisoturit
Heimosoturit
Armored Spearmen
Keihäsmiehet
Footmen
Karelian Kylfings
Karelian Raiders
Karelian Horsemen
Finnish Berserkers
Finnish Nobles
Kuninkaan Henkivartio


Boats:

Small boat
Uisko

Mercenaries
Gael Gaedhil Buanna (All of Ireland and Scotland)
Leinstermen (Dyflinnsysla and Leinster)
Welsh Longbowmen (All of British Isles)
Manx Fer Cliwe; (Kumberland, Nordimberland, Dyfed, Gwynedd, Man, Sudr-Eyar, Cymri, Dublin, Ulster, Strathclyde and Lowlands)
Gorddgwas (Dyflinnsysla, Bretagne and All of Britain south of Scotland)
Gallowglasses (Connaght, Ulster, Meath, Dyflinnsysla, Leinster, Man, the Highlands, Strathclyde and the Grampians)
Saxon Mercenaries (Saxland and All of England)
Breton Axemen (Brittany and Outer Britanny)

Mercenary Vikings (All of British Isles, Finland, Baltics, Northern Russia, Iceland and Scandinavia)
Jomsvikings (Jume, Vendland, Aust-Vendland, Sjellund, Odinseyar, Jutland, Nord-Jutland, Sudr-Jutland, Skáni, Halland, Aust-Gautaland, Svitjod, Viken, Agdir, Hordaland, Trønderlag and Hålogaland: Important, Jume annually recieves several available Jomsvikings for hire, the other provinces get them less frequently)
Vendish Warband (Vendland, Aust-Vendland and Jume)
Vendish Warriors (Vendland, Aust-Vendland and Jume)
Karelian Mercenaries (All of Finland, Karelia and Lappland)
Saremaa Raiders (Saremaa and Estland)
Lithuanian Cavalry (Lithuania and Livonia)

Feel free to add suggestions.


Scandinavian Units

Trell Knifemen
Weapon: Knife
Armor: None
Shield: None
Helmet: None
Morale: Very Poor
Abilities: None

Trell Spearmen
Weapon: Short Spear
Armor: None
Shield: None
Helmet: None
Morale: Very Poor
Abilities: None

Leidang Spearmen
Weapon: Long Spear
Armor: Light chain mail
Shield: Medium round shield
Helmet: Leather
Morale: Good
Abilities: Warcry

Light Archers
Weapon: Bow + Knife
Armor: None
Shield: None
Helmet: None
Morale: Poor
Abilities: Flaming arrows

Leidang Archers
Weapon: Bow + Knife
Armor: Light (fur/leather)
Shield: None
Helmet: None
Morale: Average
Abilities: Flaming arrows

King's Archers
Weapon: Bow + Sword
Armor: Light chain mail
Shield: None
Helmet: Leather
Morale: Good
Abilities: Flaming arrows

Viking Axemen
Weapon: One handed axe + Throwing spear
Armor: Light (fur/leather)
Shield: Medium round shield
Helmet: Leather
Morale: Good
Abilities: Warcry and Svinefylking (wedge)

Berserkers
Weapon: One handed axe
Armor: None (half-naked)
Shield: Medium round shield
Helmet: None
Morale: Excellent
Abilities: Berserkergang

Ulfhedin Berserkers (special Nordic)
Weapon: One handed sword
Armor: Light (much fur)
Shield: Medium round shield
Morale: Fearless (can't be routed)
Helmet: None
Abilities: Berserkergang

Huskarl Swordsmen
Weapon: One handed sword + Throwing spear
Armor: Heavy chain mail
Shield: Large round shield (iron edge)
Helmet: Gjermundbu
Morale: Excellent
Abilities: Warcry and Svinefylking (wedge)

Huskarl Axemen (best in loose formation)
Weapon: Bearded axe
Armor: Heavy chain mail
Shield: None
Helmet: Gjermundbu
Morale: Excellent
Abilities: Warcry and Svinefylking

Hirdmen (Royal Guard)
Weapon: One handed sword
Armor: Heavy chain mail
Shield: None
Helmet: Gjermundbu (general/king himself has it in gold)
Morale: Fearless
Abilities: Rally, Warcry, Svinefylking and Shield Wall (protects the general/king)

Horse Raiders (Mounted)
Weapon: Long Spear
Armor: Light chain mail
Shield: Medium round shield
Helmet: Gjermundbu
Morale: Good
Abilities: Wedge

[Hagbard la Suede]

Leidang Archer = Well actually,wouldn't it be Ledung or Ledgang?The Ledung/Ledgang was when the chieftain or king called his followers to join him in war.
Leidang Skirmisher = I'm not sure scandinavians had special units of these people
Leidang Spearman = Acceptable
Viking Axemen = All vikings were made for raiding :P,but ok.
Berserker = good
Huskar Swordsman = I think you mean huskarl,its ok.
Huskar Axeman = alright for the flavor
Hirdmann = Hirdman,Hirdmen.Soldiers in the service of a lord
Light Cavalry = good

[King Yngvar]

Leidang Archer = Well actually,wouldn't it be Ledung or Ledgang?The Ledung/Ledgang was when the chieftain or king called his followers to join him in war.
Leidang Skirmisher = I'm not sure scandinavians had special units of these people
Leidang Spearman = Acceptable
Viking Axemen = All vikings were made for raiding :P,but ok.
Berserker = good
Huskar Swordsman = I think you mean huskarl,its ok.
Huskar Axeman = alright for the flavor
Hirdmann = Hirdman,Hirdmen.Soldiers in the service of a lord
Light Cavalry = good

Leidgangr is the old norse word, I just used the modern Norwegian.
It was a "draft" system where the peasants had to fight for their king for a certain time. They used bows, spears, etc. Light units. Skirmisher, maybe we don't need it, but give the Viking Axemen and maybe the huskarls and hirdmen an ability to throw spears before charging. Yes, the Vikings did that.

Viking Axemen = All vikings were made for raiding :P,but ok.

Just need a light axeman

Huskar Swordsman = I think you mean huskarl,its ok.
Huskar Axeman = alright for the flavor

Huskarl might be a better name, though I have read the use "huskar" as well.

Hirdmann = Hirdman,Hirdmen.Soldiers in the service of a lord

Hirdmann is just the Norwegian name. The name of the group would be Hirdmenn or Hirdmen in English. The most elite warriors. There was fewer than a thousand in a kingdom. These men formed the shield walls of the king.

[King Yngvar]

Special abilities (using some of your suggestions, eliminating the skirmisher if we are to include ability to throw spear for the other infantry):

Leidang spearmen: Warcry
Leidang archers: Flaming arrows
Viking Axemen: Warcry
Berserkers: Warcry (Berserkegangr, extra effect on berserkers)
Huskar Axemen: Wedge (Svinefylking)
Huskar Swordsmen: Wedge (Svinefylking)
Hirdmen: Wedge (Svinefylking, warlord in front!)
Light Cavalry: Wedge

Another idea: Mercenary that can only be sold to "Viking" factions: Jomsviking.

[Meneldil]

Hey, I was thinking about making a Age of Charlemagne mod, but i think I'll rather wait for CA to show us their next project, because everything would be easier if the plan to release MTW2.

Anyway, if you're looking for informations, you might want to ask to Norseman. He's working on the Fury of the Northmen mod for MTW, and has gathered a loads of historical informations.

[King Yngvar]

MTW2? Wouldn't that be based in around the same period as MTW? Plus, it will take them at least two years to release it.

About information, if someone want to give information (especially about the other kingdoms outside Scandinavia) that would be nice. But I need some modders too.

[King Yngvar]

So I decided for a starting age, at first that starting age will be 911 as it is more interresting and with more options than 793. Just another thing that proves this is not the same as Viking Invasion. Well, mostly I decided this because of Normandy and the Magyars, as they will now be included.



Only the provinces of the north have been lined up there, the rest of Europe is just bordered by factions for now.

Factions:

Norway
Sweden
Denmark
Wessex (or England)
Dublin-York (yes I know they were not united until 919, but no need to include them both)
Scotland (or Alba, just think Scotland sounds better)
Ireland (or Eire)
Wales (or use one of the names of a Welsh principality, f.ex Gwynedd or Dyfedd?. Yes, just one province, but we want them in don't we?)
Kingdom of Vendland (those two provinces east of Denmark if you wondered, Slavic people)
Normandy
Frankish Kingdom (or West-Frankish Kingdom)
German Kingdom (or East-Frankish Kingdom)
Cordoba
Asturia
Italy (yes there were actually a kingdom called Italy from the late 800's till mid 900's)
Papacy (the Catholic "senate")
Poland
Magyars (or Hungary)
Kijev/Novgorod/Konugard/Holmgard (still not sure which name to use)
Bulgar Khanate
Khazar Khanate
Byzantine Empire (or Romanoi Empire/Eastern-Roman Empire?)
Fatimid Kaliphate (started out in Algeria in 901, rapidly expanded westwards, took Egypt later on)
Abbasid Kaliphate (the original Kaliphate, the Fatimids challenged them for the title of Kalif)

[Meneldil]

The best name for the Russian faction is Kievan Rus, cause Novgorod was an independant city in 911 I think.

[Paul Peru]

It's true that the norse threw spears/javelins.
Jan Guillou mentions this in one of his medieval novels. (post-viking era)
The hero, a former knight templar, is defeated in two contests back home in Götaland: throwing spears and throwing axes, which the young men he competes against have been practicing since infancy. He comments that he needs to get better at throwing away his weapon.

I got an idea for a unit, inspired by the Burgundian snipers in NTW: How about a "Heroic Archer"? In the sagas there is a guy called Einar Tambarskjelve, who has unique skills. He is "one shot, one or more kills". The Norwegian king is a great athlete, but when Einar's bow breaks and he is offered that of king Olav instead, he complains that it is too weak. After that, they lost the battle (against a combined force of Danes, Swedes and Norwegian rebels) Einar subsequently worked for the former enemies. This made me think that the unit might be a recruitable mercenary, available in western Norway.
One man unit (if possible). Expensive to hire, high upkeep, max.possible missile attack, very long range. High starting experience/valour. Possibly lower than standard number of arrows (because the silly sod ruins his bow a lot)
Should be good for taking out enemy leaders etc.

[King Yngvar]

I have read those books yes, all four of them

One man unit (if possible).

Don't know if this is possible, maybe a small berserker sized unit (24 right?).

By the way, do you wish to help with this mod? Either by collecting historical information or if you know anything about modding.

The best name for the Russian faction is Kievan Rus, cause Novgorod was an independant city in 911 I think.

Helgi ruled both cities

[Paul Peru]

By the way, do you wish to help with this mod? Either by collecting historical information or if you know anything about modding.

I would like to help. I'm not
-a historian
-an archaeologist
-a graphic designer
-an experienced modder

I'd be happy to help with testing.
I can try to help with research, unit info, finding pictures to base unit design on, text file editing/experimenting etc.
Just try assigning me a task, and we'll se how I perform

As I usually say: try benefiting from the work of others instead of reinventing the hand pump from scratch.
There's VI with a lot of units. There may be something to rip off in the Medieval mod for RTW. https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=38508
Some guys are working on a MTW mod called "Fury of the Northmen". It's got roughly the same timeframe as "your" mod, and there's loads of information in the thread: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=30879
My impression is that most modders are happy to share as long as they're given proper credit for their work.
Another thing (probably well known): There may be changes to moddability and possibly CA-made modding tools in the next patch.

[wilpuri]

For information, you might want to take a look at the "Fury of the Northmen" mod thread in the engineers guild.

Good luck with the mod.

[King Yngvar]

I'd be happy to help with testing.
I can try to help with research, unit info, finding pictures to base unit design on, text file editing/experimenting etc.
Just try assigning me a task, and we'll se how I perform

I think the testing phase is far ahead. I am getting photoshop soon on CD in the mailbox, not sure when. Probably soon as I get my new computer.

Scandinavian Kingdoms (Norway, Sweden and Denmark):

Trell Spearmen: Short spears and small wooden un-painted shield, no armour.
Leidang Spearmen: Longer spears, medium wooden un-painted shield, fur clothing.
Leidang Archers: Light standard archers with a "Viking look"
Viking Axemen: Skegg-axe, medium wooden, un-painted shield, no armor, lether helmet. Geirrkastir, throw spears like Roman infantry throw pilums. Abilities: Svinefylking (Wedge) and Warcry (hoping for possibility to have two).
Berserkers: Sword and medium wooden, un-painted shield, "wild" fur clothing. Ability: Berserkergang warcry, last longer, more effect than normal warcry (if possible).
Huskarl Swordsmen: Sword, big painted shield, chain mail, gjermundbu helmet. Geirrkastir, throw spears like Roman infantry throw pilums. Abilities: Svinefylking (Wedge) and Warcry (hoping for possibility to have two).
Huskarl Axemen: Two handed bearded axeman, chain mail, gjermundbu helmet. Geirrkastir, throw spears like Roman infantry throw pilums. Abilities: Svinefylking (Wedge) and Warcry (hoping for possibility to have two).
Hirdmen: Infantry royal guard, sword, big painted shield, golden gjermundbu helmet. Geirrkastir, throw spears like Roman infantry throw pilums. Abilities: Svinefylking (Wedge) and Warcry (hoping for possibility to have two).
Horse Raiders: Spear and small wooden shield.

Boats:

Snekkja
Drakkar


Dublin-York (Disable berserker, York was already christianized, Dublin got christianized in 948. No drakkr. No leidang system. But gets Irish units in return):

Trell Spearmen: Short spears and small wooden un-painted shield, no armour.
Irish Spearmen
Gallowglasses
Viking Axemen: Skegg-axe, medium wooden, un-painted shield, no armor, lether helmet. Geirrkastir, throw spears like Roman infantry throw pilums. Abilities: Svinefylking (Wedge) and Warcry (hoping for possibility to have two).
Huskarl Swordsmen: Sword, big painted shield, chain mail, gjermundbu helmet. Geirrkastir, throw spears like Roman infantry throw pilums. Abilities: Svinefylking (Wedge) and Warcry (hoping for possibility to have two).
Huskarl Axemen: Two handed bearded axeman, chain mail, gjermundbu helmet. Geirrkastir, throw spears like Roman infantry throw pilums. Abilities: Svinefylking (Wedge) and Warcry (hoping for possibility to have two).
Hirdmen: Infantry royal guard, sword, big painted shield, golden gjermundbu helmet. Geirrkastir, throw spears like Roman infantry throw pilums. Abilities: Svinefylking (Wedge) and Warcry (hoping for possibility to have two).
Horse Raiders: Spear and small wooden shield.
Hobilars

Boats:

Snekkja


The others are just wild ideas that will definately be changed:

Scotland

Peasants
Commoners
Light Archers
Spearmen
Skirmishers
Armored Spearmen
Claymore Warriors
Pictish Axemen
Lowland Infantry
Light Cavalry
Scottish Cavalry
Celtic Guard (infantry)


Wessex

Light Archers
Heavy Archers
Peasants
Fyrd Spearmen
Fyrd Axemen
Skirmishers
Huskarl Axemen
Huskarl Swordsmen
Royal Huskarls (infantry)
Light Cavalry
Saxon Cavalry


Wales

Peasants
Light Archers
Longbowmen
Spearmen
Armored Spearmen
Axemen
Skirmishers
Briton Swordsmen
Briton Horsemen
Celtic Guard (infantry)


Irish

Peasants
Dagger Fighters
Irish Spearmen
Viking Axemen
Gallowglasses
Skirmishers
Kerns
Celtic Guard (Infantry)
Hobilars


Kijev

Peasants
Slavic Archers
Rus Spearmen
Armored Rus Spearmen
Slavic Axemen
Viking Axemen
Berserkers
Varangian Axemen
Varangian Swordsmen
Royal Varangians
Light Cavalry
Boyars
Steppe Cavalry

Boats:

Snekkja
Drakkar


Magyars

Peasants
Light Archers
Magyar Archers
Skirmishers
Swordsmen
Slavic Axemen
Light Cavalry
Steppe Cavalry
Magyar Horse Archers
Heavy Lancers
Royal Cavalry


Byzantine Empire

Peasants
Archers
Crossbowmen
Trebizbond Archers
Spearmen
Armored Spearmen
Roman Swordsmen
Varangian Axemen
Varangian Swordsmen
Cathapracts
Pronoias
Horse Archers
Royal Cathapracts
Catapults
Ballistas


Abbasid Caliphate

Peasants
Desert Bowmen
Syrian Archers
Crossbowmen
Spearmen
Saracen Infantry
Nubian Spearmen
Skirmishers
Beduin Camels
Saracen Cavalry
Horse Archers
Ghulam Cavalry
Royal Cavalry


Fatimid Caliphate

Peasants
Spearmen
Fatimid Spearmen
Saracen Infantry
Berber Warriors
Desert Bowmen
Light Camels
Saracen Cavalry
Berber Cavalry
Royal Cavalry


Cordoba

Peasants
Slave Spearmen
Iberian Spearmen
Light Infantry
Moorish Infantry
Desert Bowmen
Light Cavalry
Moorish Cavalry
Horse Archers
Royal Cavalry

Wends

Peasants
Slavic Axemen
Slavic Archers
Spearmen
Armored Spearmen
Skirmishers
Berserkers
Wendish Swordsmen
Bearded Axemen
Royal Guard (infantry)
Horse Raiders

Have not come up with appropriate names for the others yet. This is just to give you an idea of units.

[King Yngvar]

Pherhaps this can be an armored spearman unit?

[Radier]

King Yngvar... Excellent units and map!
I hope this mod will be released, but since i am not a modder or a historian I can't help.. but I wish you the best of luck!!

Fury of the Northmen mod have a load of information... Maybee you can get some info there or maybee join them... 'cause your units is great!

Radier.

[King Yngvar]

Fury of the Northmen mod have a load of information... Maybee you can get some info there or maybee join them... 'cause your units is great!

Thank you, however I don't think I can join them as they mod MTW. I don't even have MTW anymore, and the new 3D engine of RTW prevents me from even thinking about going back to MTW
What is needed is a "Viking mod" for RTW.

[wilpuri]

Thank you, however I don't think I can join them as they mod MTW. I don't even have MTW anymore, and the new 3D engine of RTW prevents me from even thinking about going back to MTW
What is needed is a "Viking mod" for RTW.

Well I know that. I was just thinking, that since thr FotN crew has done some very extensive research on the viking world, may be you would find that useful for your mod.

EDIT: oops I thought you were quoting me. Got to learn how to read first and post later.

[Lazul]

Might I just add that the favored weapon of the "more veteran" viking was NOT the axe but the simple sword/boradsword etc etc.
It is just a myth that all vikings used only axes.

just wanted to say that...

[King Yngvar]

Might I just add that the favored weapon of the "more veteran" viking was NOT the axe but the simple sword/boradsword etc etc.
It is just a myth that all vikings used only axes.

just wanted to say that...

The reason berserkers, huskarl swordsmen and hirdmen will have swords.

Well I know that. I was just thinking, that since thr FotN crew has done some very extensive research on the viking world, may be you would find that useful for your mod.

I may concider it, thank you

[Ranika]

Christianized 'Irish' Vikings in Dublin shouldn't disclude berserkers, the Christian Irish had berserkers called Raighhangh (in the old An Mhumain). Also, the backbone of the late dark age Irish armies were chainmaille wearing light swordsmen (Dibh Lann, black blade), coupled with chainmaille wearing heavy spearmen (Bonnaght, later Bonnacht, spearman).

[King Yngvar]

Christianized 'Irish' Vikings in Dublin shouldn't disclude berserkers, the Christian Irish had berserkers called Raighhangh (in the old An Mhumain). Also, the backbone of the late dark age Irish armies were chainmaille wearing light swordsmen (Dibh Lann, black blade), coupled with chainmaille wearing heavy spearmen (Bonnaght, later Bonnacht, spearman).

Woha, we got an Irish history expert

Maybe you could be in charge of the Irish faction? I will put in those unit names, thank you.

[King Yngvar]

Sorry for the second post, but it seems you cannot edit posts in this forum. Oh well;

Irish

Peasants
Raighhangh Berserkers
Spearmen
Bonnaght Spearmen
Viking Axemen
Dibhlann Swordsmen
Gallowglasses
Skirmishers
Kerns
Celtic Guard (Infantry)
Hobilars


Dublin-York (No drakkar. No leidang system. But gets Irish units in return):

Trell Spearmen: Short spears and small wooden un-painted shield, no armour.
Bonnaght Spearmen
Dibhlann Swordsmen
Viking Axemen: Skegg-axe, medium wooden, un-painted shield, no armor, lether helmet. Geirrkastir, throw spears like Roman infantry throw pilums. Abilities: Svinefylking (Wedge) and Warcry (hoping for possibility to have two).
Berserkers: Sword and medium wooden, un-painted shield, "wild" fur clothing. Ability: Berserkergang warcry, last longer, more effect than normal warcry (if possible).
Huskarl Swordsmen: Sword, big painted shield, chain mail, gjermundbu helmet. Geirrkastir, throw spears like Roman infantry throw pilums. Abilities: Svinefylking (Wedge) and Warcry (hoping for possibility to have two).
Huskarl Axemen: Two handed bearded axeman, chain mail, gjermundbu helmet. Geirrkastir, throw spears like Roman infantry throw pilums. Abilities: Svinefylking (Wedge) and Warcry (hoping for possibility to have two).
Hirdmen: Infantry royal guard, sword, big painted shield, golden gjermundbu helmet. Geirrkastir, throw spears like Roman infantry throw pilums. Abilities: Svinefylking (Wedge) and Warcry (hoping for possibility to have two).
Horse Raiders: Spear and small wooden shield.
Hobilars

Boats:

Snekkja

[Speiz_Bankurt]

Great idea for a mod. Just thought I'd mention, Magyars should be pretty much cavalry only. They certainly didn't use slavic troops that's for sure! They were basicly like Eastern horsemen, excellent horse archers and some heavy cav, really hard bastards.

[Radier]

King Yngvar were are you from? Just wonder since you to this vikingmod...

And the scandinavian units... will the different vikingfactions have unique units apart from each other?

Radier.

[Ranika]

I am an expert in Celtic history, and have a degree in Irish Military History. The professional Irish army also did not employ viking axemen, except as mercenaries, they had their own, Iobnaght (Ee-obe-nakt), who fought using a two-handed axe called a moriob (great axe). These were a type of light-to-medium infantry, coupled with similarly armored Cleighcach, shortswordsmen, and Kerns. The Iobnaght and Cleighcach were the lightest 'professional' soldiers used by Irish militaries (Kerns are peasants), though they were actually just chiefsmen (tribal warriors) that were led by their chieftans, under the direction of a greater Arras (Irish noble), and, unless in a small skirmish or a cattle raid, were usually used as a reserve, or as a forward force to soften the foe, before the bulk of the actual army, consisting mainly of Bonnaghts and Dibh Lann swordsmen, would follow and do the true bulk of damage, using their high quality armor and weapons, as opposed to the Iobnaght and Cleighcach's total lack of armor and shields (However, Cleighcach from parts of Munster, called Dhácleighcach, used two swords).

Also, having Irish with peasants and kerns are redudant. Kerns were simply a peasant mob that were given darts and a spear, both of which were more than plentiful in Ireland. Subsequently, Kerns are ALSO Irish skirmishers. In Viking Invasion, it had a seperate unit for dartmen (Irish skirmishers) and kerns, but in reality, they're the same thing.

Also, hobilar, just so a common mistake is not repeated, are NOT light cavalry. They are, in fact, Irish medium-to-heavy cavalry. Hobby ponies are very sturdy, and their riders were clad in high quality chain, threw three javelins before a charge, and then attacked using their spear in 'the old fashion', that is, wielding it over their head. Irish light cavalry are Marcach (horsemen), and aren't really exceptionally different than other horsemen, so a generic horsemen unit could be employed for that. There are also Ridire, who I'll talk about shortly.

Gallowglass, also, do not use two-handed swords, usually. Some did, but the main weapon of the Gallowglass, is a large, two-handed axe, called a sparth axe. The axe is on a 4.5-to-6-foot pole. Gallowglass should not be included, however. While the Irish employed them heavily, they were actually Gaelo-Nordic warriors from the Hebrides. Gallowglass itself (the Anglicized version of the Irish word 'Gallogladh'), means 'Foreign Warrior'. The most important point, though, is that they did not come into usage until the high middle ages. If you still wish to use them, make them a mercenary unit available in the north of Ireland, and Scotland, they were not trained, they were bought, and even fought for the English a few times.

Irish two-handed swordsmen were lewcach, and used a massive two-handed sword called a lewing sword. These huge weapons were made to split through chain armor, and cleave off heads in wide strokes. They were the precursor to the cleighdemornach (claymore men, two-handed swordsmen) used by the Scots.

In Connacht, the tribe of the Dal Cais produced extremely heavily armed, and long trained warriors called the Dalcaission Knights, they used a lewing sword, or a longsword and shield, coupled with full body chain, and a shield with the flag of Ireland on the front (a blue field, not green, with a yellow Irish harp on it) after the unification under Brian Boroime. If used, they would be vaguely like R:TW's Spartans, a limited area, high power, extremely expensive unit. Also, they appear only in small numbers, a unit of Dalcaissions were about 20-30 men. They were paid in pounds of treasure, weapons, and armor, as such, they were VERY expensive to maintain. Alternatively, the high king of Ireland himself employed these men as his own guards, and they could be a 'royal' unit for generals. However, I recommend Ridire. Ridire are a mounted unit, they are Irish 'knights', who use extremely high quality swords, shields, suits of chain, and metal helmets, and wear flowing cloaks. Either one would be good as a bodyguard unit though.

Also, bonnaght ARE spearmen in Ireland, the Irish spear was a throwing weapon as well as a defensive weapon. The Irish military was highly unique. Archers in Ireland were always mercenaries, the Irish military didn't rely on long range engagements, they relied on their high quality chain and shields to protect them at distance, use short range armor piercing missiles (heavy javelins), or fast to throw light missiles (darts), and close and use their melee weapons (axes, swords, and spears). I know I said the bonnaght are heavy spearmen, and they are, but that's more of a comparison to other nations spearmen. The only 'light' spear unit used by the Irish were Kerns, who, when their darts were thrown, used a homemade spear.

The vikings of Dublin no longer employed Trell spearmen by 1000, they adopted the Irish bonnaght entirely for their spears, as the bonnaght's system was very effective against most enemies you'd need spears against. However, their bonnaghts were really more like Kerns who marched in formation.

Also, on Dibhlann, they worked similarly to legionarres, they throw a javelin before their charge, which is precursored by their warcry "Bas! Bas! Bas ach Ifreann ru ta namhaid!" - "Death! Death! Death and Hell on the foe!"

Scottish armies in this period were VERY similar. However, they employed their cleighdemornach instead of lewcach, and used light archers. However, their clothing is of importance to note.

Irish and Scottish warriors, none of them at this time, wear kilts. They wear brat, a shoulder cloak akin to the kilt (in fact, the kilt is simply a brat worn about the waist). The poorer soldiers and peasants wear a long shirt, called a leine. It goes to the knee. They wear, with it, a belt, a brat, and leather shoes.

Professional soldiers (Dibhlann, Bonnacht, etc.) wore checkered pants called trews, along with a brat, a leine, and usually, a chain shirt, with a padded vest over it, and high ankle boots with the trews stuffed into the boots.

Beards are not popular with Gaelic soldiers (though they are with peasants), but mustaches are. Long 'handlebar' mustaches, called cruda or brocha, or any number of things based on dialect, are especially popular, and are, in fact, a hold over to ancient Gallic mustaches in France and north Italy. The most advanced soldiers wear long cloaks. Included there would be 'noble' units, like those around generals, and any of the highest tier units.

The strength of an Irish army should be in two main areas:
Heavily Armored Advanced Units - During the Dark Ages, the Irish had the finest made chain in Europe. They used advanced metallurgical procedures to have a 'double knit' shirt, that was light as the average shirt of chain.

Morale - Gaelic armies are historically reknowned for an insanely high level of morale and fearlessness during this period, instilled mainly due to the teachings of the Celtic rite of the Catholic Church. They still took heads, and saw death in battle as the greatest glory.

The weaknesses of an Irish army should be in two main areas as well:
Range - While having decent short ranged attacks, at a long range, the Irish are at a HUGE disadvantage. While their most advanced units should have good enough armor to get them close, their lower tier units are another story.

Very Poorly Armored Low Tier Units - While generally willing to fight, more so than most warriors in many places, the Irish levymen, their very basic soldiers are VERY badly disadvantaged when it comes to armor. Totally unarmored, and without shields, they have little chance of survival at range, against archers and the like. While their unarmored status affords them great speed upclose, and the ability to dodge, at a range, they're good as dead.

[Ranika]

Also, on the subject of Raighhangh Berserkers, they were not unarmored like Nordic berserkers, they used a high quality hand-and-a-half sword called a sidhemhor, with a large targe-style shield. They wore chain shirts, under a leine, no pants, but wore shoes, with an elaborate gold neck chain (a gift given to them all), a heavy cloak that stopped just above the knees, with a plaid design, and body painted heavily with blue or white dyes, especially the face, and often have religious tattoos on the arms.

Such a unit should be confined to a province with a specific religious structure, as they were supposed to be the 'children of Saint Finbar', a little known Catholic saint of wolves, but he was very popular in 'backwoods' regions of Ireland, among hunters and the more tribal warriors, who hadn't really incorporated heavily into the uniting kingdom of Ireland. In professional armies, they only showed up three times, and every time, they were were found in a chapel to Saint Finbar in Connacht when they were hired, found praying naked and tattooing and cutting themselves in front of the altar.

After their ritual, they were hired, and gathered their brethern to fight for the Irish. In battle, they exhibit the same qualities as a Nordic berserkr, a berserk rage, and wild, selfless behavior. They would cry 'For the Christ, Saint Finbar, and Eireann, I will take your head and eat your pagan soul' before battle. With such a cry, I'm sure you can see why I insist that they be tied to a religious structure.

[Ranika]

I am also aware that in later periods, a Kern was simply an ordinary Irish warrior, and meant many types of troops, but in this period you've outlined, the Kern is just a peasant sent to fight.

[Ranika]

And now, the Scots. The Scots had a very similar military, and, at the 'entry' point of the game, were just recently to become the Albions, with Kenneth Mac Alpin's completed conquest of Pictland. The kingdom of Alba was, itself, still VERY Gaelic in this period, and the Scots, as such, were not that different from the Irish. The distinction between highlanders and lowlanders wouldn't really be formed until the Norman incursions north, when the lowlanders would become more 'European' in culture, while the highlanders were more Gaelic in culture. Any Picts used in a Scottish military, it should be noted, are generally significantly shorter than a Gael, with black hair.

The Scottish military, as such, acts similarly to the Irish one. While there is a professional military, the bulk of soldiers in Scotland are clan warriors. They are made for raiding, not prolonged battles. They are patroned to a chieftan, who is himself patroned to a local 'ruire', who is then patroned to the 'ardruire' (the same titles as Irish 'ri' and 'ard ri', the 'kings' and 'high king'). These would be the lowest tier soldiers, kerns (called bollocknach, as they used bollock knives, not spears, in Scotland), spearmen, very light archers, Pict levies (Picts fought in large levies, all generally very poorly armored, using axes or curved swords), and the lightest of cavalry.

Then, you have the soldiers trained by the ruire, they are professionals. They include: Strathnach (used by the Welsh and Scots, they were essentially just Armored Spearmen, so that's a fine unit for them), Droganach (medium cavalry, wearing light chain, and using an axe and shield from horseback), and Sinoach Warriors (these were also used by the Irish, but not as often), who would dress in fox furs, and, at a distance, appear to be a fox by laying down. This would leave them fairly unmolested by enemies, or draw hungry enemies closer looking for something to eat. They would use this camoflauge to sneak near to enemies, then fire on them with fair quality bows, and draw a mace or sword, and their shield, to engage in melee. They weren't used too often, but almost every Ruire before 1050 AD had at least a few groups of them for assassinating traveling nobles and their entourages, and used them sometimes on the field to go after noblemen.

The most professional were the soldiers of the high king. These included Moarcleigh (Bearer of the sword), who dressed in very elaborate chain, and used swords with the mark of the king on the pommel, and were his personal guards, cleighdemornach, claymore warriors, also, were in his private armies, they used the heavy two-handed swords as an anti-armored infantry unit, and also batareicht (also an Irish soldier), clubmen. The bata is also called a shillealagh, a stick with a rounded 'head', and many knots, to inflict nasty gashes. Professional bata warriors were something like a Japanese kensai, they were very skilled martial artists with their weapon. Batareicht also used swords, called Pronoais, and those who used swords were generally the most skilled, and used, often, two at a time. The pronoais warriors were also sometimes called Prochacht or Pronach, and the pronoais itself is an elaborate shortsword.

[Ranika]

The Welsh, you have pretty well. They did employ a large number of archers, light archers, as well as "Ddynion chan bwâu", 'Men of Bows', excellently trained longbowmen, as well as shortswordsmen. They were, in a pinch, decent light infantry, and carried small shields and shortswords. The later English employed Welsh longbows were 'Anglicized', they weren't as heavily trained in melee combat as the dark age Welsh bowmen were.

Also, they made extensive use of "Allt farchogion" (Hill Horsemen), who were a swift cavalry unit that used bows from horseback, and then road in with a longsword or axe, and large shield.



A side note for the Irish. As a united people, the 'kingdom' of Ireland was actually called 'the Irish Empire', as it was several kingdoms under a single ruler. Brian Boroime actually held the title of 'Scotum Imperator', in Papal records, as he was 'Emperor of the Irish', and in some places of Ireland (like where I'm from), he's referred to in English, not as King Brian, but as Emperor Brian. However, either way, in Irish, he's 'Ard Ri', 'High King'

[King Yngvar]

Great idea for a mod. Just thought I'd mention, Magyars should be pretty much cavalry only. They certainly didn't use slavic troops that's for sure! They were basicly like Eastern horsemen, excellent horse archers and some heavy cav, really hard bastards.

Are you 100% sure? So those Slavs that lived within their borders did not fight in their army at all? It seems unlikely that they did not employ any infantry, even the Mongols employed infantry. But of course, I wish their army to have weak infantry and great cavalry. Those who like to play as Parthians in RTW will like to play as Hungarians here.

King Yngvar were are you from? Just wonder since you to this vikingmod...

Norway

And the scandinavian units... will the different vikingfactions have unique units apart from each other?

I do not see a point in that. If this was for the later period after the Viking Age, I might have concidered that. But the Scandinavians was so similar in the Viking Age you can say they were all the same people, just divided by borders.

Also, they made extensive use of "Allt farchogion" (Hill Horsemen), who were a swift cavalry unit that used bows from horseback, and then road in with a longsword or axe, and large shield.

Horse archers for the Welsh, interresting...

The most professional were the soldiers of the high king. These included Moarcleigh (Bearer of the sword), who dressed in very elaborate chain, and used swords with the mark of the king on the pommel, and were his personal guards

The Scottish equilant of Hirdmen then...

I am also aware that in later periods, a Kern was simply an ordinary Irish warrior, and meant many types of troops, but in this period you've outlined, the Kern is just a peasant sent to fight.

Pherhaps like the "leidgangr" system in Norway then?

After their ritual, they were hired, and gathered their brethern to fight for the Irish. In battle, they exhibit the same qualities as a Nordic berserkr, a berserk rage, and wild, selfless behavior. They would cry 'For the Christ, Saint Finbar, and Eireann, I will take your head and eat your pagan soul' before battle. With such a cry, I'm sure you can see why I insist that they be tied to a religious structure.

Seems all natural, was thinking the line of just making churches of Christ for the Christian factions. But pherhaps national patron Saints can get their churches. Like "Curch of Saint Finbar" could be a structure necessary for Irish berserkers, "Temple of Odin" could be necessary for Nordic berserkers.

The professional Irish army also did not employ viking axemen, except as mercenaries,

Hmm... Pherhaps these mercenaries could be set to the Irish provinces then, at a fair price and upkeep cost.

make them a mercenary unit available in the north of Ireland, and Scotland

Thanks, I shall take them out of the unit list. Was actually just copying Viking Invasion there. About the kerns, what about making two different units, first a Kern with a spear and then a Kern with throwing javelins. The Kern Spearmen being light anti cavalry units while the Kern Skirmishers being, well skirmishers. About the Marcach horsemen, using the name Light Cavalry and making it the same for all Celts might be better concidering all these units have to be skinned. Using the same royal guard units for Celts might be preferable, concidering 25 factions are to be made. It's the reason I want Norway, Sweden and Denmark to use exactly the same units. However royal guard units will have the coat of arms of their respective faction, though they elsewhere look the same.

Also, bonnaght ARE spearmen in Ireland, the Irish spear was a throwing weapon as well as a defensive weapon

Maybe a "legionary ability" here then...

Also, on Dibhlann, they worked similarly to legionarres, they throw a javelin before their charge, which is precursored by their warcry "Bas! Bas! Bas ach Ifreann ru ta namhaid!" - "Death! Death! Death and Hell on the foe!"

Same ability as I plan the Scandinavian units to get...

Morale - Gaelic armies are historically reknowned for an insanely high level of morale and fearlessness during this period, instilled mainly due to the teachings of the Celtic rite of the Catholic Church. They still took heads, and saw death in battle as the greatest glory.

They will have the same main strength as Scandinavian units then. A clash between the two would be a long battle...

Irish and Scottish warriors, none of them at this time, wear kilts.

So when did they start using kilts? Magnus Barefoot (king of Norway who attempted conquering Ireland but fell in an ambush in Ulster) is said to have had bear legs, "like the Irish". I always thought he wore a kilt, but then again, that was between 1098 and 1103, 200 years after this mod shall start.

The Welsh, you have pretty well. They did employ a large number of archers, light archers, as well as "Ddynion chan bwâu", 'Men of Bows', excellently trained longbowmen, as well as shortswordsmen

Would like to use the same shortswordsmen for Welsh and Irish. Did they both use shields? Then maybe just name them Celtic Swordsmen and give them a short sword and a wooden shield...


Ireland

Kern Spearmen
Skirmisher Kerns
Raighhangh Berserkers
Bonnaght Spearmen
Iobnaght Axemen
Celtic Swordsmen
Dibhlann Swordsmen
Celtic Guard (Infantry)
Light Cavalry
Hobilars

Scotland

Bollock Knifemen
Pict Levies
Light Archers
Spearmen
Armored Spearmen
Celtic Swordsmen
Batareicht Swordsmen
Sinoach Warriors
Claymore Warriors
Celtic Guard (infantry)
Light Cavalry

Wales

Peasants
Light Archers
Longbowmen
Spearmen
Armored Spearmen
Axemen
Skirmishers
Celtic Swordsmen
Briton Swordsmen
Light Cavalry
Hill Horsemen (missiled)
Celtic Guard (infantry)