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  1. #1
    Member Member Icerian Rex's Avatar
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    Default My final thoughts on RTW

    I posted once before on some of the things that I noticed about RTW, and now that I've played most of the factions at least a little bit, I figured I'd give my final compare/constrast/wish-list/etc....

    Likes:
    1. The towns and cities are great. They're absolutely immense, and the way you don't necessarily have to kill everyone, but merely take and hold the town square is much more satisfying. Also, it's really cool when you're invading a big town to at least take a minute to look around.
    2. Elephants. There's simply not much that stands in their way. In one Carthaginian campaign I used about four units of Armoured Elephants and wiped out around 800 Gauls without a single loss.... and then I turned around and did it a few more times to a few other factions....
    3. Senate missions (and the senate in general) - Unlike the pope, the senate can actually help you from time to time, the rewards for completing missions aren't too shabby. Also, you know that eventually the Senate will get it's come-uppance, and that once they're dead, they stay dead.
    4. Moving armies by ship
    5. Changing seasons.
    6. Cavalry charges - I know many have griped about these, but I actually see them as being one of the most exciting aspects of the game. They're only really effective if you can strike from the flank or rear, which is (IMO) as it should be.... and man when you've got a good angle it's cool watching the bodies fly.
    8. Last but not least, the inspiring battle speeches (although I wish they were only reserved for really large battles).

    Dislikes and/or things I would change:
    1. I am yet to fight a night battle in the regular campaign, and I miss the "weather report" from Shogun. Also, I wish I was able to fight in blizzards, heavy fog, and snowstorms like in Shogun... really added to the effect.
    2. Ambushes - Sometimes my army just tells me they're "ready to ambush", not that it does a darned hill of beans worth of good, as I've never fought in one (on either side). I would change things to where both ambushes and or forts were automatic, so that if you attack a barbarian faction, they'd have say a 25% chance of ambushing (possibly going up with command experience), and if you play a Roman faction, there'd instead be a 25% chance of having to fight them in a fort.
    3. Command bar (during battles) and lack of speed slider - I still say the icons are too small, and would rather see them at the top of the screen. Also, in the midst of combat I've more than once "mis-clicked" the new speed thingy (meaning I clicked just beside or below)... I thought the speed slider was easier.
    4. Routing troops run too fast.
    5. Archers and ballistas shoot my troops right in the back if they get in the way (I know, teaches em' to not get in the way, but still).
    6. The whole "city growth" thing is perhaps the single biggest annoyance I find with the game. I'll wind up slaughtering my citizenry every other turn towards the end, and everything's just chaos. Rather than feeling like I've accomplished something, I instead feel like I'm just trying to wrap up as fast as possible. Very UN-enjoyable.
    7. Ending sequence - I played shogun till the end simply to see the end movie. It was awesome. By comparison, MTW was a letdown, and I had big hopes for RTW. In my opinion, the new "ending movies" are the worst yet.
    8. Lack of "area specific" units, buildings, or bonuses - This was one of my favorite parts of MTW, and I wish it was there for RTW. I thought it added alot of character to the factions, as well as the game as a whole. Obviously there are certain areas now where you can get elephants, and perhaps a few other units, but overall that's about it.
    9. Juggling family members - This is easy enough in the beginning, but later on is a pain in the neck. I think you should be able to "appoint" a unit to a city if you don't have a family member close by (perhaps with a slight performance penalty or something).
    10. Generals - seriously, I've had some fairly basic armies take on some top notch enemy generals, and inevitably the general impales his horses on my spears and that's that. Even if he lives, he doesn't really seem to do much for the performance of his army.
    11. Camera movement - The camera seems far more restricted than it used to be, and you can get a headache trying to zoom in on the action at the top of walls during a siege.
    12. Sapping - Speaking of sieges, all one really needs to do is sap for one turn and you're in. Normally, I autoresolve sieges, as although the towns are interesting enough, there's really no need for ladders or mobile towers - just dig your hole and get down to business.
    13. I'd like to have seperate "cycles" for Navy vs. Army. Sometimes I'm trying to find a certain ship, and wind up having to scroll through every land unit just to spot it.

    So, overall:
    I've had some fun with this game. I'll probably have a little more fun as well. Still, I don't think it's going to have the "replayability" for me that MTW (or STW for that matter) did. With all that was successful with the games that came before it, I would have assumed RTW would have been a slam dunk - adding onto past successes while tweaking past failures, all in combination with a healthy dose of graphical enhancement. Instead, it seems like the developers were far more after the "playstation" crowd than the gamer crowd that (to me) is the core. I find the game unneccessarily complex where it didn't need to be, and not complex enough where it should be. Battles live up to their hype, and there are some interesting new features, but overall it seems like alot that was good was ommitted this go-round. I can only hope that if there is a MTWII (or some other TW incarnation) these things are addressed. Still, I guess it's like with the movies, "The sequels are rarely as good as the original".

  2. #2
    Lord of the Kanto Senior Member ToranagaSama's Avatar
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    Default Re: My final thoughts on RTW

    You should try the "Total Realism Mod" in conjunction with the "Total Combat Mod", together they make for a more MTW experience, similar to the MedMod, thought not quite.

    Particularly, items, 4, 6, and 8, have been moderated somewhat effectively. Routing troops are no longer much of an issue. The "City Growth" issue is a good bit more manageable and hopefully each mod version will make it better, until the Patch is released. The latest version of the Total Realism mod has begun to address "area specific[ation]".

    If interest go over to www.twcenter.net and search for the mods, imo, use both for the best experience. Don't forget to *read* the Readmes.

    Without the mods, I probably wouldn't be playing the game anymore. It just wasn't fun.
    In Victory and Defeat there is much honor
    For valor is a gift And those who posses it
    Never know for certain They will have it
    When the next test comes....


    The next test is the MedMod 3.14; strive with honor.
    Graphics files and Text files
    Load Graphics 1st, Texts 2nd.

  3. #3

    Default Re: My final thoughts on RTW

    Agreeing on many point.

    But really, about the 4, I'm surprised : the routers routs too SLOW, not too fast !

    I'm able to catch light infantry routing, with my armoured hoplites ! If anything, routers should be FASTER...
    If violence didn't solve your problem... well, you just haven't been violent enough.

  4. #4

    Default Re: My final thoughts on RTW

    Routing troops should run very fast.

    If you were being chased by an Urban Cohort with tons of experience, you'd be running for your life!

    The whole idea of routing from the battle field is saving your life. If you want to save your life you run as fast as you can regardless of how tired or how much stuff you are carrying.
    He was no longer to be addressed as Gaius Octavius Julius but insisted on being called Augustus Caesar and he now styled himself as 'divi filius' - 'son of god'.

  5. #5

    Default Re: My final thoughts on RTW

    If I may add something, without getting Medieval Assassin on me, it would be: Retraining. You can retrain 8 or 9 units per turn. Ín battles you don't need to be careful at all about which units you use and how many you loose, since money isn't a problem either. Oh, one thing about the money issue as well: you end up buying solely the very very best troops you can get (like Spartan Hoplites or Urban Cohorts). That makes very unvaried battles. Boring indeed.









    EDIT:
    The problem with routing, Octavianus, is that you'll "loose" every single man if you don't win the battle. Where they'd go, you might ask.

  6. #6
    Cellular Microbiologist Member SpencerH's Avatar
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    Default Re: My final thoughts on RTW

    I feel the same way about the game. There are lots of improvements compared to VI but I'm only on my third campaign and I've already lost my zest for 'one more turn'.

    There are lots of threads concerning things to fix but I thought I'd mention a few points that reduce my overall enjoyment of my current game (Brutii, campaign VH/ battles H).

    1. right off the bat the AI navies were too strong to be dealt with 1/1 and they magically targeted any fleet carrying an army. I dont mind giving the AI some advantage at the harder levels but when I consistently loose with 1:1, 2:1, and even 3:1 ship advantages, thats just silly.

    2. My previous campaign was selucids on medium which was too easy battle-wise and became tedious by the endgame due to the inability to manage distant cities without periodically slaughtering the population. In this campaign I've moved up to hard battles and find it nearly impossible to win with a captain against the AI. A stack of upgraded principes and archers are just fodder for AI armies composed of lightly armed barbarians. A decent general evened things out a bit, but if the AI stack contains a general or some heavy inf my losses are disasterous even though I win.

    3. Missile ranges are annoying. There is simply no reason why barbarian archers should have firing ranges that appear double that of roman archers and appear on a par with ballistae.

    4. Wooden walls. How is it that archers outside the walls can target (and slaughter) my units inside but I cant fire back with any effectiveness at all with archers, pila, or ballistae (which destroy the walls and gate). OK we have the towers, but their firepower should reflect the missile units present inside the city including the ballistae.

    5. Diplomacy seems broken. Its now 232 BC I'm at war with the gauls, britons, dacians, and now the greeks (maybe I'll become a Greek protectorate). The only faction I attacked was the Dacians and the only fcation that would ally with me is the Spanish! My Roman allies are useless (I dont think either has taken a single city) and I fear the end is in sight since I still only have 2 cities that have grown to the point where they are capable of producing upgraded units (to match the AI light warbands).

    None of these (especially 5) are 'game-enders' but in total (along with the real bugs) they detract from my enjoyment to the point where I'm thinking of not playing another game. Hopefully the patch will address the gameplay problems (and will be out soon). For the most part, once I move on I dont go back to an old game.
    Last edited by SpencerH; 11-08-2004 at 16:39.
    E Tenebris Lux
    Just one old soldiers opinion.
    We need MP games without the oversimplifications required for 'good' AI.

  7. #7
    Member Member Praylak's Avatar
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    Default Re: My final thoughts on RTW

    I wouldn't put to much faith in the patch. I'll give CA/Activision a good grade on supporting products, but it seemed like we had to do allot of screaming and yelling to get the last patch for VI.

    I like what the Total Realism mod is aiming to do, and the Europa Barb.. I'm not using the Realism mod yet because I'm concerned about some of the negative changes some people are reporting. Once it gets tweaked I intend to use it. In the end I think its the modders that will move this game to the level where I can really enjoy it. Like many games before, the fans that mod make a good game great. They seem better atuned to what the core players want from the game. Why this is I'm not quite sure, but if its any feature a game developer must include for it to be great, its the ability to mod it. All we need do now is be patient or participate if your able.
    Last edited by Praylak; 11-08-2004 at 17:50.

  8. #8
    Parentum voto ac favore Member Dark_Magician's Avatar
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    Default Re: My final thoughts on RTW

    Quote Originally Posted by Octavius Julius
    Routing troops should run very fast.

    If you were being chased by an Urban Cohort with tons of experience, you'd be running for your life!
    Yep. And routers tend to drop their shields etc

  9. #9
    Actual Person Member Paul Peru's Avatar
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    Default Re: My final thoughts on RTW

    Likes:
    1. some of the city planners need a swift kick in the butt, though
    8. agree, they should be given only in large battles, and maybe only by generals
    Dislikes:
    1. The Trivium mod gives you more varied weather. I think it changes too quickly, though. Night battles would be cool. Have had evening ones. Looks nice.
    2. Yeah, where are the ambushes?
    3. Bring back the slider! (or at least make the buttons bigger)
    9. Should have an "assign to city" option for family member, maybe with a delay to arrival based on distance and perhaps a few % chance of getting lost if having to cross seas or enemy territories.
    overall:
    I'm a bit worried that the game may not last as long as MTW, it feels like it's getting a bit old already. Patching and modding will decide... The game is so great! It's like a lovely gourmet meal with a turd in it
    Sono Pazzi Questi Romani
    Paul Peru: Holier than thy bucket!

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