CA: This has got to STOP! (AI Control is simpley a source of Frustration)

[ToranagaSama]

I don't know about anybody else, but I have just about had it.

Total Realism Mod 3.0 is out so I decided to start a new Campaign. I have not completed 5 turns yet, sorting things out, blah, blah....

I'm playing the Juii, of course, I take Segesta, seiging until it falls in 2 turns. Decius or the other non-heir, is the winning general he has like 3 or 4 Scrolls, gonna be a good administrator for this town, right?! Yup!

I install him as Govenor, with his little army in garrison, until we can get his Govenor's Villa built, and have a few Town Watch sent over from the Capital.

A turn later, I notice a Rebel band just to the West of Segesta, so I take my chosen *fighting* General, the one with the good Combat Traits, and my remaining combat units (Hastati and above) over to deal with these Rebels. Good opportunity to get him a sure victory and another star, just before encoutering the Gauls.

The battle is won, but with more losses, than I think should have occurred. (Gotta get used to the mod changes). Ok, so I move the stack back to the Capital for retraining (2 turns), they get retrained, and I notice another Rebel band (enough with the Rebels already), just to the East of Segesta.

Ok, fine, my fighting general is now a 4 star, might as well get another win before taking on the Gauls. The Rebel band is located close to the town. So, I march my little Army over from the Capital and attack. [Note, I don't bring my *good* govenors to battle unless I HAVE TO.]

OH NO!

I look up at the screen, and the stupid AI has decided to take control of Segesta's Govenor and join me on the field of battle.

WTF!@ I don't need any help.

Fortunately, or so I thought, my personally controlled army and the AI army, have the little rebel band in a perfect "L" shapped ambush, each army closing in on the little rebel band at the point of the L.

Ok, maybe this won't be so bad. Yeah Right!

Note both Armies are about equal size with 6 or 7 units apiece; the rebles, have 4. I push out my Velites do a little damage to a Peasant unit on the Rebel's left flank, I move my left flank of Hasti out close to back up the Velites, once they decide to high tail it back to the lines. I thinking this is going to be a massacre, and my Govenor's Garrison will manage to get back to town unscathed.

Then all of a sudden the AI amry engages! Who asked it to do so? 2 minutes later I get the unnecessary popup video, MY D*** GENERAL IS DEAD. I'm like you've got to be kidding, My Govenor is dead?

WTF.

----

This has got to stop. There has got to be a way to turn off AI control.

I DON'T WANT IT---PERIOD!
I DON'T NEED IT---PERIOD!
I DON'T LIKE IT---PERIOD!

Either get rid of it, or give me *some* command and control, for example.

Command 1: Hold Back wait for Orders, where the army will not attack unless ordered to do so. The AI can control the attack once ordered to so.

Command 2: Attack--Hold Back General, the AI can control the attack, but will NOT engage the General. More perfectly, the Player would control the General, while the AI controls the army.

Command 3: Attack, the AI engages and controls both the Army and the General.

---

Either turn off the AI Control altogether, or give the Player *some* control. As it is, it's just not enjoyable. Simply a source of frustration.

NOTE: This is aside from, or, in addition to, fixing "Suicide Generals". Fixing Suicide Generals ala MTW:VI won't address the above.

Thank you in advance.

P.S., oh yeah, most importantly,

Command 4: Stay the F in the Town! The AI will NOT bring troops, under any circumstances from within a Town/City unless EXPRESSLY ordered to do.

---

BTW, while on the subject of AI control, what's with the Sieges?

For example, playing as the Juii, the Gauls may lay siege to one of my cities. I'll hold the mouse pointer over the city and be informed that the city will hold for 8 turns or something. Good, I decide to let that city tough it out while I deal with another crisis, afterwhich, I'll go and save that city.

I think, EIGHT turns, that's plenty of time, right? NO!

3 turns later, the Garrison is fighting the besieging Gauls. Whaaa? I'm not sure what's happening here. I suppose the Gauls have managed to break thru the walls or something.

The thing I question, then, is why no FMV advises the player of such? There's an FMV for for just above everything, a player is capable of knowing w/o the FMV; but, here's a case where the player is incapable of being aware and no FMV showing the Gauls or whomever breaking thru the walls.

---

I dunno know, maybe losing a valued Govenor 5 turns into the game, through no fault of my own, has just pissed me off.

[A.Saturnus]

I agree, there should be a basic control over AI armies.

[Warlock]

The "hold out for X turns" is how long it will be until the city falls automatically. The AI can assault at any time, just like the human player.

[motorhead]

I agree, besides fixing suicide generals, being able to give some basic direction (even just an aggressvie/defensive option) would be very good. Under the current conditions, I try to always check what generals are in the 3x3 combat box. Unless it's impossible, I make sure only one general will engage and move the other general(s) beyond the box to avoid giving the AI direct control of any portion of my army.

[Lonewarrior]

Through out my campaing, I have seen at least 30 suicidal generals, come on stop throwing yourselfs at my spears.

[SpencerH]

Its pretty clear that CA is aware of this problem from some of their comments in the dungeon (and there may be a good fix in the works i.e. being able to toggle between generals on the tactical map).

[A.Saturnus]

Its pretty clear that CA is aware of this problem from some of their comments in the dungeon (and there may be a good fix in the works i.e. being able to toggle between generals on the tactical map).

If that´s their way of fixing it, I don´t like it. I find it actually good that there are AI controlled armies. If it just actually was AI. I mean the only thing needed to let it work properly is a set of rules like DON´T ENGAGE YOUR GENERAL!!!!
And some basic commands aren´t asked too much. The AI already knows the distinction between defence and attack. The only thing needed is a hotkey to let it switch it´s strategy.

[TheDuck]

If that´s their way of fixing it, I don´t like it. I find it actually good that there are AI controlled armies. If it just actually was AI. I mean the only thing needed to let it work properly is a set of rules like DON´T ENGAGE YOUR GENERAL!!!!
And some basic commands aren´t asked too much. The AI already knows the distinction between defence and attack. The only thing needed is a hotkey to let it switch it´s strategy.

Now I'm getting excited. If they implement that it will be a dream for me. I'd set up much larger formations if I could, but simply won't due to the AI issues.

For instance, if I could I'd have a more 'purely infantry' element and a 'cav heavy' element. I'd tend to fight the cav element closely and use the infantry element more broadly. Of course, I hope the improve the AIs capabilities regarding coordination, because if not then me controlling two (or more) armies in a battle becomes a cake-walk.

[SpencerH]

Dont get too excited, I cant find the thread to refresh my memory. Someone suggested the toggle idea as a way to fix the suicidal generals. Someone from CA said that was an idea they had thought about using before and that maybe they should look at it again. That doesnt mean it will happen though, but clearly they are aware of the problem and that may be a simple solution.

EDIT found the thread (looking for something else of course)
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=38916

[TheDuck]

I don't know about anybody else, but I have just about had it.

Total Realism Mod 3.0 is out so I decided to start a new Campaign. I have not completed 5 turns yet, sorting things out, blah, blah....

I'm playing the Juii, of course, I take Segesta, seiging until it falls in 2 turns. Decius or the other non-heir, is the winning general he has like 3 or 4 Scrolls, gonna be a good administrator for this town, right?! Yup!

I install him as Govenor, with his little army in garrison, until we can get his Govenor's Villa built, and have a few Town Watch sent over from the Capital.

A turn later, I notice a Rebel band just to the West of Segesta, so I take my chosen *fighting* General, the one with the good Combat Traits, and my remaining combat units (Hastati and above) over to deal with these Rebels. Good opportunity to get him a sure victory and another star, just before encoutering the Gauls.

The battle is won, but with more losses, than I think should have occurred. (Gotta get used to the mod changes). Ok, so I move the stack back to the Capital for retraining (2 turns), they get retrained, and I notice another Rebel band (enough with the Rebels already), just to the East of Segesta.

Ok, fine, my fighting general is now a 4 star, might as well get another win before taking on the Gauls. The Rebel band is located close to the town. So, I march my little Army over from the Capital and attack. [Note, I don't bring my *good* govenors to battle unless I HAVE TO.]

OH NO!

I look up at the screen, and the stupid AI has decided to take control of Segesta's Govenor and join me on the field of battle.

WTF!@ I don't need any help.

Fortunately, or so I thought, my personally controlled army and the AI army, have the little rebel band in a perfect "L" shapped ambush, each army closing in on the little rebel band at the point of the L.

Ok, maybe this won't be so bad. Yeah Right!

Note both Armies are about equal size with 6 or 7 units apiece; the rebles, have 4. I push out my Velites do a little damage to a Peasant unit on the Rebel's left flank, I move my left flank of Hasti out close to back up the Velites, once they decide to high tail it back to the lines. I thinking this is going to be a massacre, and my Govenor's Garrison will manage to get back to town unscathed.

Then all of a sudden the AI amry engages! Who asked it to do so? 2 minutes later I get the unnecessary popup video, MY D*** GENERAL IS DEAD. I'm like you've got to be kidding, My Govenor is dead?

WTF.

----

This has got to stop. There has got to be a way to turn off AI control.

I DON'T WANT IT---PERIOD!
I DON'T NEED IT---PERIOD!
I DON'T LIKE IT---PERIOD!

Either get rid of it, or give me *some* command and control, for example.

Command 1: Hold Back wait for Orders, where the army will not attack unless ordered to do so. The AI can control the attack once ordered to so.

Command 2: Attack--Hold Back General, the AI can control the attack, but will NOT engage the General. More perfectly, the Player would control the General, while the AI controls the army.

Command 3: Attack, the AI engages and controls both the Army and the General.

---

Either turn off the AI Control altogether, or give the Player *some* control. As it is, it's just not enjoyable. Simply a source of frustration.

NOTE: This is aside from, or, in addition to, fixing "Suicide Generals". Fixing Suicide Generals ala MTW:VI won't address the above.

Thank you in advance.

P.S., oh yeah, most importantly,

Command 4: Stay the F in the Town! The AI will NOT bring troops, under any circumstances from within a Town/City unless EXPRESSLY ordered to do.

---

BTW, while on the subject of AI control, what's with the Sieges?

For example, playing as the Juii, the Gauls may lay siege to one of my cities. I'll hold the mouse pointer over the city and be informed that the city will hold for 8 turns or something. Good, I decide to let that city tough it out while I deal with another crisis, afterwhich, I'll go and save that city.

I think, EIGHT turns, that's plenty of time, right? NO!

3 turns later, the Garrison is fighting the besieging Gauls. Whaaa? I'm not sure what's happening here. I suppose the Gauls have managed to break thru the walls or something.

The thing I question, then, is why no FMV advises the player of such? There's an FMV for for just above everything, a player is capable of knowing w/o the FMV; but, here's a case where the player is incapable of being aware and no FMV showing the Gauls or whomever breaking thru the walls.

---

I dunno know, maybe losing a valued Govenor 5 turns into the game, through no fault of my own, has just pissed me off.

I feel your pain man.

After losing a number of generals to this type of shenanigans I completely changed how I approach the game.

I basically rarely use governors anymore to run cities, excepting the cities that need help in raising their happiness level (i.e. a city that is very distant from the capital, so that even all the happy/law buildings aren't helping without a huge garrison). I've also taken to only running generals in one stack if I have multiple stacks of units running around (as reinforcements or backup armies for temporary garrison duty). This guarantees I have utter control over the coming battles, and don't have to worry about losing scads of units in a battle because of the stupidity of the AI. If I have more than one general, all the generals are in the same stack (I just use them as heavy hitting cavalry now).

If you ask me, the whole idea of only being able to control one general on the battlefield doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

I realize that the engine only supports showing 20 unit cards at a time.. but couldn't they just have you switch to the other general via a button or something and replace all the cards? That way you could still set the goals for all the combat units, you just wouldn't have instantaneous control over all of them. They still have to track the units on the battlefield, so its not like the engine can't hand the number of units.. only the switching of the active army.

[Nerouin]

I agree about this.. in a battle today I had to rush my cav into position and attack so that my supporting army wouldn't get themselves massacred.
Of course, I forgot I was on the defense- the supporting army moved into defense position- and my cav ran over the enemy army anyway, but still- I dread fighting a battle with comp controlled allies, because there is a lot of potential for the computer controlled family member to die. I often even move them away so that I will have control of the other army myself!

I suspect CA will be fixing this. Have no fear, people, and enjoy the good parts of the game!

[Octavius Julius]

I like getting help from the AI.

What needs to be solved is the AI General.

AI General's should be setup like this:

- They remain out of combat when controlled by the AI.

- If the battle isn't going well for the AI, only then will the General's unit engage

- If the battle is really bad, the AI General should flee or should submit to the attackers

If the AI General loses a battle, he should still remain alive 90% of the time even if they lose. There should be an imprisonment or capture element possibly.

[Nestor]

There's obviously some kind of misunderstanding in the development process of the game: I actually want to win. If the AI is up to the standards of a human player, I would love to have it handle some of my troops.

It's not. So, get it out of my way. I don't want/need any help! I can win/lose by myself!

Give me a proper enemy AI and I will reconsider my opinion...

(I would accept it if my second stack would actually revolt and attack me in the battle ... Trying desperately to find enough interest in the game... modders rock, by the way...)