Research: the best foot unit

[Basileus]

Forrester war band is awesome and the best archer unit in my mind but the 2 turns you need to train them is what makes chosen archers a better unit, i would still chose forresters though :D

[Siris]

You cant forget, the Spartan warriors. I'd rather have them than these warbands, with my milita spear throwing calvery anyday.

[Zorn]

B. Running into towers without defense causes enough casualties as it is: adding an infantry/archer unit for extra defense doesn't cause more casualties due to arrow fire from the tower.

I don`t understand that.
you are talking about a stone wall, are you?

[KyodaiSteeleye]

Only trouble with 'dual role' troops (they would have been classed as proper skirmishers in MTW) is that they're up front at the start of the battle trying to get their arrows off. However, doing that means that they're also getting peppered (unless your playing single player AI who didn't bring any). Therefore, even though they have kewl dual-use capabilities, the enemy archers are killing your expensive troops, and your letting them! - so when they eventually get to melee they may already be under half strength.

[TinCow]

That's only true if the enemy archers outnumber you. Lately I've taken to packing 8-9 Chosen Archer Warbands in each of my Dacian armies. Any enemy archers that get within range drop to 30 men or less within moments, with minimal casualties on my side. I've been using the Archers to hold the front line... turned off skirmish and turned on guard. Shoot as much as possible until the enemy closes to melee. Let the archers absorb the melee hit and hold the enemy line, then charge Chosen Swordsmen through them into the enemy line and flank with any unengaged infantry/archers or cavalry.

The Chosen Archers can easily hold up long enough against full legionary cohorts that escaped the arrow barrage and keep them pinned while my flanks do their work. I'm almost praying I get assaulted in a captured Roman city... I would love to see my archers defending the walls. Pouring death onto the enemy and then slaughtering them if they scale the walls.

[Quillan]

While my Gauls were conquering Macedonia, I was besieged by the Macedonians right after I had captured Thessalonica from the. I sallied, put my 4 units of Foresters on the ramparts, and unloaded. Their entire army retreated from the field the casualties were so high. Those phalanx units were too slow to get out of archer range. They didn't even do the "sit under fire until destroyed" bit; they started pulling back immediately.

[Lord Ovaat]

Forrester war band is awesome and the best archer unit in my mind but the 2 turns you need to train them is what makes chosen archers a better unit, i would still chose forresters though :D

Totally unfair. It only takes one turn to produce an auxilia archer, though it does take two to produce Pharoah's Archers who have similar stats. That's why I went into the stat sheets and changed the "2" to a "1". Man it's tough goin' up against the Gauls, now.

[Red Harvest]

You cant forget, the Spartan warriors. I'd rather have them than these warbands, with my milita spear throwing calvery anyday.

Those Spartans have low armour ratings, making them excellent pin cushions for high end archer units.

[Nelson]

Germans? Freyja (+15 happiness +15 growth). Donar (+15 happ, +2 xp), Woden (+15 happ +3 xp), with Donar being redundant.

If you want berserkers Donar isn't redundant. Woden gives you naked fanatics (and Gothic cav?). Freyja makes screaching women.

I recently began a campaign as the Germans and while I can't yet raise chosen archers they look to me to very good units. Rather like janisaries.

[sapi]

Those Spartans have low armour ratings, making them excellent pin cushions for high end archer units.

he's in love with the greek cities ;)

You get chosen archer warbands the earliest, too, dont' you?

[dismal]

I'm playing Germania now. I took Alesia from the Gauls around 255 BC and they had already built the level 2 temple of Abdenola and the prereq building for Chosen Archers and a blacksmith upgrade or two.

I can now crank out gold weapon CAWs, which are a very nice complement to German spears.

The range is the key, since it keeps the enemies missile troops from taking free shots at the spear line. Also helpful to soften up those big stacks of Principes and Hastati.

I would never think to use CAWs as melee troops except in an emergency, however. Not very cost effective.

[jerby]

archers are overpowered and nobody complaints! why? archers should suck and spears should rule! archers should not be armor piercing, spears should. arrows could NEVER pierce a shield, spear could practically always pierce the shield. This is messed up!

[Kraxis]

archers are overpowered and nobody complaints! why? archers should suck and spears should rule! archers should not be armor piercing, spears should. arrows could NEVER pierce a shield, spear could practically always pierce the shield. This is messed up!

I wouldn't say that nobody has complained that archers are overpowered... We have discussed this to death several times and it is obvious that most people find archers to be too strong (meaning a nerf would be accepted).
Given hte fact that we play with rather small armies each unit has to be effective, and since CA couldn't reproduce the disruptioneffect more profoundly archers simply had to kill more... Too much we can agree.
And spears weren't all that great at penetrating shields either, a onehanded spear is going to have hard time penetrating a typical non-wicker shield, and if it did penetrate it would do so slowly (it would go through but would need a further push to get at the man behind) and the other warrior would be able to avoid it. Now the spear would be stuck and your weapon useless... Not good since the enemy would now have the initiative. Yes his shield would be useless but what good does that do you if you are dead or mortally wounded?

And arrows could never penetrate shields? Let me give you a little pointer... Carrhae. There the Roman legionaries found out that the Scythians could indeed penetrate the shields with their arrows so their had to layer them double.

[Claudius Maniacus Sextus]

someone said he goes into iberia and get bonus +3misile attack from spanish temples.i say to him that dacia can go to macedon to take +4,+5 missile attack!

the Chosen are beter for ONE reason:-They are built in 1 turn.

[RollingWave]

In stratigic use wise Forester is probably best due to the ability to hide anywhere (if ur smart with the use anyway) and the high charge also helps a ton since u usually won't use archer as a melee line but rather as a last line rush.

However Forester cost a ton and takes two turn AND takes quiet a while for the Gauls to aquire (I took out the Julies and the Senate by the time I got them XD....)

I don't think that archers are overpowered.. rather that Javlins in general is under par (espically the pure javlin throwers) ... if anything the training/maintance cost of calvary is what's really over powered in the game... yes calvary were suppose to be very good, but they were also suppose to be very hard to train and maintain relative to infantry and also in RTW they melee a bit too well in most cases. (though hitting from horse back is definately strong due to height... should also make them a lot more prone to attack themself... espically in this age when there were no horse armor and horse gear weren't that perfected yet.)

[guineawolf]

someone said he goes into iberia and get bonus +3misile attack from spanish temples.i say to him that dacia can go to macedon to take +4,+5 missile attack!

the Chosen are beter for ONE reason:-They are built in 1 turn.

if it would me,i will choose Forester warband as the best foot archer(use them as muskeeteer)why?,coz they can hide anywhere(a flexible tactical unit),best use in ambush(infantry can't catch them,coz their fast moving;light cavalry can't take them down easily coz their high melee ability and spear)

but if you want a foot archer that will win the war,i will suggest CAW,first:
produce in 1 turn(like T-34 for Russia in WW2)
180 denarii upkeep(but you get good morale that archer auxilia ain't got)
7 armor compare to 3 armor of archer auxilia




now i found out new attributes for comparison of three best foot archer unit,it is about their morale:
Chosen archer warband=8
Pharoah bowman =10
Forester warband =12
archer auxilia =4
cretan archer =8

[Arphaxad]

I really like the forester warbands , but the one turn creation of the chosen archers does give them that advantage in men. In the time it takes one to build a unit of foresters, two chosens will have been built, and as been stated in a previous reply, two chosen archer units can take out a forester unit and still have men to spare.... so toss up a coin and pick one, but id go with the chosen archers for campaign, and foresters for MP.

just my thoughts....

[Abokasee]

Phalanks...i've even made a tacktic called "box form" simply place panklank all around ur general..no just..err i dont konw how say this nut they kick ass when u do it!!!!

[Afro Thunder]

What in Sam Hill is a panklank? Oh yeah, to beat your phalanx box, all I have to do is keep shooting with my forester warbands.

[Slicendice]

I didn't see factored in the faction specific enhancements gained by religious buildings. Better weapons and exp upgrade change the stats on these dramatically.

[Morphee_moi_mal]

've tested many units against praetorian cohort and none or very few win against these elite roman troops, apart from spanish bull warriors (one of the most efficient? massive huge warriors with 2pvs & PA pilums ) and the most lethal chosen axemen from germany.

[swirly_the_toilet_fish]

Chosen Archers from a fresh install have 7 armour (chainmail vest) and 4 defense skill. Out of the three, they have the second best melee capabilities plus if you remain in northern europe, you have little to fear with their added bonuses in woods and snow.

Egyptians fair a little better (14 missile/9 melee/7 armour/6 skill and 10 morale) but do have the drawback of time and penalties for snow and woods (both -2).

Cretans have absolutely no armour and only 11 missile.

Foresters have the highest missile attack rating (15) and also 11 melee. However, the battle modifier on their spear is less than 3/4 so it is ineffective against armoured infantry. Defense is poor (3 armour/5 skill) but they have the highest morale (12) and the best melee charge (8). In terms of engagement they can also hide "anywhere" and have the same bonuses as Chosen Archers.

If you were to alter stats and give all arrows the armour piercing ability, the foresters would win hands down. They function more like longbowmen; lightly armoured, long range, powerful shots, and (if there wasn't a bug) would have the highest stamina amongst all of the tree with the best morale.

I still prefer the foresters because of their hiding ability. Turning off skirmish and auto fire will allow you to wait for enemy units to be ambushed from behind while peppering them with the highest damage of all foot missile units.

Since this decision is really all about personal taste(reminds me I must fix something to eat), no unit will be a definite clear-cut winner.

However, I have seen Militia Hoplites make decent hell for Chosen Archers.

________________________________________________

Ooo. Thought it was all about foot archers. Spanish Bull Warriors are effective against most other heavier infantry but do lack luster when pitted against heavy archers. Praetorians can hold their own against most top level units and Chosen Axemen (if given 2 hitpoints) can definitely hard head-strong into packs of archers, cavalry, infantry, elephants, siege weapons, nuclear missile silos, etc.

[Seige_Engineer]

Mmmmmm Janisaries :D

Just checking, do Choosen archers have the very long range missles like cretans/Pharos/foresters?

Also, Why can I not create new topics in the SP RTW section? :(

[econ21]

Welcome, Siege Engineer. I believe the Chosen archers do have a long range, yes.

On the posting restrictions, they are because you have not yet been promoted from junior member to member. Have a look at this thread for more info:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=43835

I understand it can be frustrating, but stick around a while, make some posts in the frontroom or other open forums, and promotion will not take long.

[russveld]

these chosen archer warbands are exactly the same as venetian archers in m2tw (my favorite unit because of flexibility).
basicly after im done using the arrows they can charge the flank of rear of an enemy and change the tide of the battle.

[El Guiménez]

Those Spartans have low armour ratings, making them excellent pin cushions for high end archer units.

When you train them in a city with temples of Nike, you get improved veterans who are better able to with stand archer fire. Plus, when attacking archers, you can have them break up the falanx and just run at the archers. This only works when the archers are in front of the lines though.

You can however dodge archer fire by breaking up the falax, losening the formation and having the Spartans run at the enemy formation only to fall back into a falanx when they've almost reached the enemy lines. It works well enough.