Research: Elephants, Healing, and Multiple Hit Points

[Mr Frost]

...
p.s. as it stands now, it is ridiculous that macedonian cavalry with practically no defense but super high charge kills phalanxes in seconds in frontal attacks... the horses should evaporate in such suicide runs, but it's the phalanxes that disappear and rout...

Strange , as the last time I fought the Macadons with Phalanx {playing Selucid} their Light Lancers {that I manipulated into charging my line of mostly Mercenary Hoplites} died and routed swiftly , though causing more casualities than they should have . I think I had my line deeper than usual {they had a lot of lancers , and I didn't want my line breeched} .

Look here for a fix for the bionic horse problem {jumping the pikes frontally to engage so pikes are useless or even from the rear} and here for something I did with Triarii that seemed to make a difference against cavalry {simply upping the sword stats for phallanx would help to giving them a better chance against bionic horsemen} .

[barocca]

..{BIG SNIP}...here for something I did with Triarii that seemed to make a difference against cavalry {simply upping the sword stats for phallanx would help to giving them a better chance against bionic horsemen} .

Mr Frost,
is a download avaiable for your changes to the Roman Units?
I like what you have done to them,

Cheers,
B.

[SwordsMaster]

Yeah!
Please make a download!
Triarii phalanx, the first thing that came to my mind after finishing the julii campaign....I just didnt know where to look....

Anyway. Great changes

[Red Harvest]

barocca,

I haven't tried flaming arrows, since they are bugged. I leave them to the AI. I've used insane numbers of archers without causing damage as the pachyderms approached--eight units of archer auxilia against base elephants, they didn't rout until they started dying in melee.

I haven't seen the accuracy penalties for archers with deeper ranks. Others have found that box formations work best for horse archers. However, I'm still accustomed to stringing out my archers into shallow lines from earlier TW games, so that is still what I do.

[Mr Frost]

Mr Frost,
is a download avaiable for your changes to the Roman Units?
I like what you have done to them,

Cheers,
B.

Sorry , I didn't follow the thread after my post so I didn't see the request . I'll try to remember to upload it tommorrow .

I made a balista alteration that oneshots elephants without unballancing balistas Vs anything else which is in the downloads section of TWC {in Mods subsection} called "Ballistas of Dumbo Slaying" that is appropo to the thread topic .



Incase I forget to upload the Triarii Phalanx mod it is done thus :

find the Triarii entry in export_descr_unit.txt in {in default installation} C:\Program Files\Activision\Rome - Total War\Data which looks like the following

type roman triarii
dictionary roman_triarii ; Triarii
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type Medium_1
soldier roman_triarii, 40, 0, 1
officer roman_early_centurion
officer roman_early_standard
mount_effect horse +4, chariot +4, camel +4
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap
formation 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 7, 7, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 25 ,0.73
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 7, 5, 5, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 2, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 10, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 500, 210, 50, 80, 500
ownership romans julii,romans brutii,romans scipii,romans senate

and change it thus {changes highlighted red}

type roman triarii
dictionary roman_triarii ; Triarii
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type Medium_1
soldier roman_triarii, 40, 0, 1
officer roman_early_centurion
officer roman_early_standard
mount_effect horse +4, chariot +4, camel +4
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap
formation 1, 1, 2, 2, 4, square, phalanx
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 8, 7, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 25 ,1
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 8, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 15 ,0.75
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 9, 4, 5, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 2, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 10, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 3, 500, 250, 50, 80, 500
ownership romans julii,romans brutii,romans scipii,romans senate

{don't worry about any other differeances , they're just my personal preferances}
Then find descr_model_battle.txt and in the roman_triarii entry in {default installation} C:\Program Files\Activision\Rome - Total War\Data which should look like the following

type roman_triarii
skeleton fs_spearman ; combat spear
indiv_range 40
texture romans_julii, data/models_unit/textures/unit_roman_triarii_julii.tga
texture romans_brutii, data/models_unit/textures/unit_roman_triarii_brutii.tga
texture romans_scipii, data/models_unit/textures/unit_roman_triarii_scipii.tga
texture romans_senate, data/models_unit/textures/unit_roman_triarii_senate.tga
model_flexi_m data/models_unit/unit_roman_triarii_high.cas, 15
model_flexi_m data/models_unit/unit_roman_triarii_med.cas, 30
model_flexi_m data/models_unit/unit_roman_triarii_low.cas, 40
model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_roman_triarii_lowest.cas, max
model_sprite romans_senate, 60.0, data/sprites/romans_senate_roman_triarii_sprite.spr
model_sprite romans_scipii, 60.0, data/sprites/romans_scipii_roman_triarii_sprite.spr
model_sprite romans_brutii, 60.0, data/sprites/romans_brutii_roman_triarii_sprite.spr
model_sprite romans_julii, 60.0, data/sprites/romans_julii_roman_triarii_sprite.spr
model_tri 400, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5f

and change it thus {changes highlighted red}

type roman_triarii
skeleton fs_spearman, fs_swordsman ; combat spear
indiv_range 40
texture romans_julii, data/models_unit/textures/unit_roman_triarii_julii.tga
texture romans_brutii, data/models_unit/textures/unit_roman_triarii_brutii.tga
texture romans_scipii, data/models_unit/textures/unit_roman_triarii_scipii.tga
texture romans_senate, data/models_unit/textures/unit_roman_triarii_senate.tga
model_flexi_m data/models_unit/unit_roman_triarii_high.cas, 15
model_flexi_m data/models_unit/unit_roman_triarii_med.cas, 30
model_flexi_m data/models_unit/unit_roman_triarii_low.cas, 40
model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_roman_triarii_lowest.cas, max
model_sprite romans_senate, 60.0, data/sprites/romans_senate_roman_triarii_sprite.spr
model_sprite romans_scipii, 60.0, data/sprites/romans_scipii_roman_triarii_sprite.spr
model_sprite romans_brutii, 60.0, data/sprites/romans_brutii_roman_triarii_sprite.spr
model_sprite romans_julii, 60.0, data/sprites/romans_julii_roman_triarii_sprite.spr
model_tri 400, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5f

The commas are very neccessary as one might expect {the code seems to have a fettish for them ;p} .
The decription still serves , but you could change that by adding to or altering the triarii entry in export_units.txt in {default} C:\Program Files\Activision\Rome - Total War\Data\text which looks like the following

{roman_triarii} Triarii

{roman_triarii_descr}
Hardy\nDisciplined\nSapping Ability\n\nTriarii are tough heavy spearmen who make up the third and most senior part of a Roman Legion before the military Reforms of Gaius Marius. They carry a long "hoplite-style" spear (the hasta) which is used to thrust, a long shield and a gladius. They are the oldest veteran soldiers, and well armoured – hardly surprising, given that they are also drawn from the richest section of society. \n\nThe triarii are the last available line in early-pattern Republican Legions. "Going to the triarii" is a Roman saying meaning carrying on to the bitter end, and if they are used it’s a sign that the moment of decision in a battle has arrived. \n\nHistorically, triarii spent their own money on their equipment and could afford to buy the best of everything.

{roman_triarii_descr_short}
Triarii are tough, experienced spearmen who are the senior element - the backbone - of an early Roman Legion. They can be a decisive force in battle.

To something like this {change in red}

{roman_triarii} Triarii

{roman_triarii_descr}
Hardy\nDisciplined\nSapping Ability\n\nTriarii are tough heavy spearmen who make up the third and most senior part of a Roman Legion before the military Reforms of Gaius Marius. They carry a long "hoplite-style" spear (the hasta) which is used to thrust, a long shield and a gladius and fight in the same fashion as Greek Hoplites. They are the oldest veteran soldiers, and well armoured – hardly surprising, given that they are also drawn from the richest section of society. \n\nThe triarii are the last available line in early-pattern Republican Legions. "Going to the triarii" is a Roman saying meaning carrying on to the bitter end, and if they are used it’s a sign that the moment of decision in a battle has arrived. \n\nHistorically, triarii spent their own money on their equipment and could afford to buy the best of everything.

{roman_triarii_descr_short}
Triarii are tough, experienced spearmen who are the senior element - the backbone - of an early Roman Legion. They can be a decisive force in battle.





For those whom might wish to mod this into their game I ofcourse say :
Back up the files you are going to change before you change them ! .

[Turin]

People, elephants are EASY to kill!

Javelins take them down like nothing else. I always laugh when enemy brings elephants cause I know I can pwn them easily with a single velites unit!

[Red Harvest]

People, elephants are EASY to kill!

Javelins take them down like nothing else. I always laugh when enemy brings elephants cause I know I can pwn them easily with a single velites unit!

You obviously didn't have much experience with them prior to 1.2. They are much better now, although the actual response to missile fire is still quite odd. If you play some of the historical battles the elephants can be a real eye opener. But the historical battles are all superhuman units anyway, not much fun.

Side note (not for Turin)
And what is that triarii mod post doing here?

[Creeper525]

do you think makeing elephants easier to kill is the best solution?

I think the real problem is they are to lethal, even basic one man elephants can run threw the enemy formations causeing hundreds of casualties even before the enemy routes

I think they should cause far fewer casualties, but still cause severe disruption, like when you give a run order repeatedly on the other side of the enemy line, so that the elephants run through, knock everything down, but they get back up again

I think elephants should still be as hard, or near as hard to kill, but they should fling enemies in the air less often

if more of what they trampled got back up again, then elephants would be more balanced, and still fun to use and watch

P.S I dont know what Im talking about

[Lord Winter]

I found that elephents are best killed with numdian calvery or A Armoured genreals unit with some hevay calvery and missle support. I have only lost one genreal this way and he was serverly weakened.