Anybody else see a persistent 15% Unrest?

[RedKnight]

Pardons if this has been covered elsewhere; I didn't find anything with the new Google search though -

I have 15% Unrest in a number of my cities that has persisted long after the usual 30% (from first conquer) wears off.

Some of my cities duly went from 30 to 0% in 5% per turn (?) as usual, but many others went from 30 to 15 and are staying there now dozens of turns after conquering.

I can't make any particular sense out of which have or haven't except that maybe it's due to me having exterminated them? I've exterminated a lot this game BUT can't remember precisely which cities, so I'm not sure if this is the rule.

Anybody else seeing this? Any ideas? I'm playing a Normal/Normal game (Julii).

[therother]

Have you checked for enemy spies? They are known to cause unrest in your settlements.

[RedKnight]

Huh - they'd have to have a rather extensive spy network, but I guess it's possible.

How would I check? Move a high level spy of mine into the towns? Will I see enemy spies move out "for sure" if I kick them out? (How can I know for sure whether my town has any foreign spies in it?)

Thanks guy!

[Slyspy]

AFAIK enemy spies (and your spies) do not cause unrest no matter what you may have read or heard, or what you have experienced in previous TW games.

[Siris]

Hm, no idea. Always with my experience is when I exterminate a cities populace (my old methods), and garrison a few hundred soliders there, the loyalty & happieness shoots up to over 200% a lot of the time. So no clue bro, prehaps its a spy, filthy beggars, smell like cabbage... small hands...

[Oaty]

A CA developer came by and mentioned causes of unrest, I think it was posted shortly after the game came out.

What your most likely reason is economic failure of the city, and even if it shows a positive # for income it still may be a failure.

Some of the reasons for bad econmics is farmland. Another is poor trade income.

Some cities are prone to it do to poor farmland and noone to trade with, no matter what you do. Also corruption can ruin a cities economic power.

Some cities are prone to it forever like Nepte and Palma. Nepte is hurt from multiple factors. Only 2 cities to trade with and with a small population merchants do'nt trade much with them, bundle this in with their poor farmlands and then the reduced income from corruption due too your not likely to even have a capital that's even close to them. Now Palma can be improved, unlike Rhodes who probbly have a bout 20 cities to potentially trade with Palma has a limited selection. Now I have never had a game last long enough to get Palma to get 3 trade fleets, but when you do it may kill the unrest as they have become economically stronger.

Now With Parthia never been near them before but because they are stuck on the edge of the map they get that special building of caravans I believe. Now at the edge of the map reduces trade partners but I'm guessing those caravans compensate for that.

Also if you move your capital to the edge of the empire you will notice an increase in unrest in the outer cities along with higher corruption.

Hope that helps

[Siris]

Too bad you cannot make like, Vice Capitals, like the outpost Capitals of the outer stretches of the Empires, to ensure consistant un-corruptedness.

[andrewt]

I think some cities just have a higher unrest if you are not the original culture. The whole Iberia in my Julii game had 15%, both the high income and low income ones. Tarsus had 30% permanent in both my Parthian and Pontus game. IIRC, net income of Tarsus in my Parthian game is almost 7000 so it can't be that.

Jerusalem has 30% permanent in my Pontus game but not in my Parthian game. I'm suspecting that that is because of the Pyramids. I'll test maybe later.

[bmolsson]

It would be so much easier of we could prosecute, exectue and sieze the assets of all the corruptors. It would be good for the cash flow and make life easier....

[therother]

How would I check? Move a high level spy of mine into the towns? Will I see enemy spies move out "for sure" if I kick them out? (How can I know for sure whether my town has any foreign spies in it?)

Put one of your own spies in the city, and wait. Eventually their spy will be kicked out, and you should see it. If it is killed, you should see the effect on Public Order. Alternatively, if you've unlocked the cheats, you could switch to play as your enemies to see if they have spies in the city. If you don't fancy that, email the game to me and I'll be happy to quickly check.

AFAIK enemy spies (and your spies) do not cause unrest no matter what you may have read or heard, or what you have experienced in previous TW games.

Spies no longer have a 'secret police' function, in that they will not improve public order in friendly cities. They most definitely cause unrest in enemy cities. I've done this many times myself, causing revolts with a combination of assassins (to sabotage public order buildings) and spies.

I know that it is counted as unrest as I've seen a spy cause this in my cities. The most recent I've seen was a Carthaginian spy in Syracuse. He was constantly causing 30% unrest, and he was thrown out 4-5 times before he was finally killed, and I had 4 4+subterfuge spies protecting the city. When he was finally killed -- agent found message popped up -- that 30% unrest was flashing in the settlement details box, meaning it was a loss for next turn, and sure enough there was no unrest the next turn.

[Slaists]

in the last version of MTW, CA limited the extent of spy's effect on a settlement to the highest valor spy (the effect of an extra valor point was considerable though): i wondered if it is the same in RTW.

[therother]

in the last version of MTW, CA limited the extent of spy's effect on a settlement to the highest valor spy (the effect of an extra valor point was considerable though): i wondered if it is the same in RTW.

It doesn't seem so, as each extra spy seems to add more to the unrest - up to a point. I did want to investigate further, but haven't found the time. I would suspect that unrest has a maximum limit, as all the other public order components do.

As for valour, I'm not sure. Again, this would have been an investigation area, to see the effect of valour on causing unrest and preventing bribes. Valour obviously has an effect on infiltration and information gathering ability.

[Oaty]

Spies are a little overpowered. When they first hop in public order should'nt drop but should drop for a few turns in a row if he's succesful

[*Ringo*]

Man, glad i read this thread. Segestica has had a 15% unrest since i conquered it about fifty turns ago. Time to turn out some spys, only question is which of my governors need the master of espionage trait! Most of them already master assassins after the senate gave me about 5 "hit" missions in a row!?!

*Ringo*

[Servius]

I really wish CA would publish a definitive guide the the possitive and negative factors for Happiness. For instance, before a few days ago I had no idea that foreign culture's buildings (in a city of theirs I've taken) causes Culture problems. I mean, it's a building, not the people... Even stupid things like the roads, walls, troop-building...buildings. I can understand teh Temples but not the roads or walls.

[RedKnight]

I've posted spies in all my cities with 15% Unrest, to see if enemy spies get kicked out. But I readily confirmed that spies cause 15% Unrest another way - I moved one of my spies into an ally's city, and saw his PO drop 15% on the spot. This was for an ally with military access etc., mind you (me Julii, them Brutii), so of course it'd work for worse relations.

It also helps explain why all of Spain has 15% Unrest even though I've long since annihilated Spain, Carthage, the Gauls, and Numidians - the only folks you might've expected to have (once had) spies there. If any spy can waltz in and cause it, even an ally, it makes more sense.

[Servius]

I have the same perpetual 15% Unrest problem with Segestica (East of Patavium). I moved in a high-leve spy and he didn't find any nme spies in there. I also put up watchtowers ALL OVER that territory to make sure there wasn't some nme army or whatever messing up my grass, but nada there too.

It seems really odd that a lack of trade goods would make people unhappy. I mean, if it's a constant thing, don't live there. Unrest shouldn't be caused by things beyond our control.

Anyway, I still have no idea what's caused the Unrest. What would be a really kick-ass feature would be if, when you mouse over an Unrest block in your City Info Page, the pop-up text not only told you what it was (Unrest) but also what is causing it.

[therother]

The persistent unrest issue has been resolved. Please see this thread in the Ludus Magna.