british chariots

**Ikken Hisatsu** · 11-04-2004, 22:37

first off I want to say that while this is a bit of the moan, I LOVE this game. everything about it is quality, and I would happily become CA's gimp so long as I got to be a playtester. ANYWAY.

this is one of the few things that bugs me about the game- british chariots.

1) charioteers didn't use bows. the britons as a whole didnt use bows in this time period, afaik. I am no expert, but from what I know, they would use javelins.

2) the charioteers would ride into combat and when the chariot was bogged down, or damaged, the warriors would jump off it and engage in hand to hand. that might be a bit difficult to engineer into the game though.

3) chasing down fleeing infantry in a chariot is a real pain in the ass. this is something you would think a chariot with big scythes on its wheels would be perfect for, but most of the time all that happens is that they get flung into the air.

4) this is probably the single most annoying aspect of the chariots- the "start stop" thing. I dont know why they do this, but when the chariots get close to the enemy they stop, then start, then stop... and finally charge when they are a couple of metres away. and consequently get bogged down and slaughtered. in a similar vein, chariots were used to smash through a battle line and then swing back around behind the enemy- the pathing a.i. makes this almost impossible without losing a large number of troops.

so yeah, this is my little moan and gripe to add. apart from this one eency thing, and a couple of other bugs, this game is perfect. well done CA.

**andrewt** · 11-05-2004, 05:20

It's the same thing with elephants. I have no idea how chariots and elephants can kill tons of infantry in close, fighting formation but can't kill any of them while they are routing.

**The Claymore** · 11-05-2004, 06:36

The default looser formation of elephants and chariots could have something to do with their lack of effectiveness when chasing routers. This morning it took 14 minutes (at 3x speed) for a full unit of British Hvy Chariots to run down and kill 11 Mercenary Hoplites. Irritating and amusing at the same time.

**hoof** · 11-05-2004, 08:53

With the elephants, it's much worse. Units withdrawing seem to be invulnerable to elephants, and I suspect routing units are the same. At least chariots kill routing men (admittedly very slowly).

I had an experience where I had a unit of javelin throwers (I forgot their name) being charged by a unit of elephants. In an attempt to save them I hit the "withdraw" button. The elephants caught my guys, yet for the next five minutes they didn't kill a single guy. On a hunch I turned off withdraw (but kept the guys running). Sure enough, my guys started to die. I turned back on the "withdraw" order and the dying stopped. There's something going on here that's keeping the elephants from killing.

The british Chariot issue is a huge problem IMO. Their chariots are very ineffective at killing routing units. Normally this wouldn't be a problem, except the British faction have no regular cavalry (not even general units). Thus you have no effective units for killing routing units. Once the enemy breaks, they will usually all get away and either reform at a distance or escape to fight another day. I gave up on the British as a faction once I realized that they couldn't effectively capitalize on a situation where the enemy routs.

**Octavius Julius** · 11-05-2004, 09:45

I think the wheels with the knives on them are a bit rough.

Like, a Roman unit armed with scutums (those rectangular shields) would just have to stand them on the ground to deflect the blades from the wheels. This would prevent their legs getting chopped off.

An example of this can be found in that film Gladiator when the scutums are used from the ground to deflect the chariots.

This should be in the game.

**bmolsson** · 11-06-2004, 11:04

Originally Posted by Octavius Julius

An example of this can be found in that film Gladiator when the scutums are used from the ground to deflect the chariots.

.

I REALLY want to adopt Russel Crow in to my family......

**Octavius Julius** · 11-05-2004, 09:56

Has anyone compared or seen a fight between a testudo formation legion and a chariot unit with blades? Does the testudo defend against the blades or is it just lousy programming and it doesn't matter what formation you use because the computer doesn't have a brain and any common sense?

**The_Emperor** · 11-05-2004, 10:14

I agree with the first post.

The Briton chariots really do suck, they knock everyone over and do not kill anyone... WHen I sent a general to mop up a unit of peasants it took him forever to chase them away cos he kept knocking them down and they kept getting back up.

Now I don't know about you guys, but I don't think men would be getting up again when hit by a chariot. if you were hit by one you'd probably be trampled to death by the horses and then run over by the wheels...

The Britons need a cavalry unit and I get real tired of having to rely on Barb Merc Cav (which I can find around Britannia strangely enough) so that I have something decent to flank and Chase with, because Heavy Chariots are not 'heavy' at all...

Oh and he's right by the way, the Birtons never used archery, Javelin throwing and Slingers were the ranged weapons of the Britons (and don't even get me started on the head hurlers)

**lismore** · 11-05-2004, 11:00

Originally Posted by The_Emperor

I agree with the first post.

The Briton chariots really do suck, )

Send in some Woad warriors right after them to kill the enemy while they're still flat on their backs.

**Praylak** · 11-05-2004, 22:37

Agreed, so I decided to take a look under the hood.

-------------------------
stat_pri 13, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 25 ,1
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 13, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, slashing, none, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr launching, ap
---------------------------

Oddly enough, the secondary stats are considered to be the chariot. So we can see they have a fairly decent attack with only a mild charge bonus. Chariot has an 8 for charge bonus whereas Barbarian Cavalry have a 9. Maybe we are looking for the effect of when cataphracts charge or somewhere inbetween? They have a 15 charge bonus. Even at 15, it still wouldn't be as potent as a cataphract charge simply because of the formation difference. Perhaps the charge should be pumped to reflect the force of a horse drawn chariot? Could even close up the formation more, that may produce the effect too. Thoughts?