Can the trade forums increase SEA income?

[RedKnight]

Hi folks - pardons if this has been covered before, but -

When you increase the size of your (land-based) trading building, the description says that it increases the number of tradeable goods. Does this mean that it "unlocks" a good not formerly available, which might also be used in your sea trade for better profits?

My understanding of the trade system (including sea trade) is that the game always selects the "single best" routes your city can do, based on how many routes it's capable of, what goods you have, who wants them, who you can trade with, etc. Putting two and two together, it seems possible that the land-based forum might allow some better sea route, if it gives your city a new kind of good to trade by sea or land. But what the forum description might simply mean is that you now have +1 land-based trade routes available (like with port upgrades) - and it doesn't do anything relative to which goods are available from the province.

I recall someone did an in-depth tracking of incomes and found that increasing forum size increased income from neighboring provinces as well. But I can't find that thread now - I wonder if he (or anybody else) knows about this particular issue?

[Quillan]

If I am not mistaken, all trade routes make more money (both land and sea) if you increase the quantity of tradeable goods, by any means. The special trade resources seem to be used for something else. I can't recall ever seeing a town exporting to another town that shares all the same resources. In fact, I suspect that's why Memphis doesn't seem to trade by sea with Petra, Bostra or Thebes. The only resource Memphis has is incense, and all three of the others have it too.

[Mr Frost]

...The only resource Memphis has is incense...

Guess I'll have to mod in the Elvis impersonators resource then !

[therother]

I recall someone did an in-depth tracking of incomes and found that increasing forum size increased income from neighboring provinces as well. But I can't find that thread now - I wonder if he (or anybody else) knows about this particular issue?

Was it thread by Tamur?

[The_Emperor]

I suspect that's why Memphis doesn't seem to trade by sea with Petra, Bostra or Thebes. The only resource Memphis has is incense, and all three of the others have it too.

Actually Memphis has Grain as a trade resource which it does trade with Thebes and then the surrounding cities, check the settlement details for the towns nearby... "Food Imports" will make a good chunk of your pop growth in Petra, Thebes and other cities in the area.

[HopAlongBunny]

The whole trade thing is a lil confusing.

I wish I knew enough about modding to control the variables and explore the affect of each trade building. For instance I built a "Trade Caravan" in one city; the increase in income was sooo small, perhaps it was the effect of the pop increase over the time it took to build the structure; and I don't recall observing any "extra" tradeable goods coming on stream.

In fact, I would really like to see if any of the buildings increase trade I believe one thread (no idea where or by who) claimed that all trade increased relative to city size, with the buildings (dock upgrades excluded) having no real impact.

[Quietus]

Hey all,

You guys might want to read my Economics Guide somewhere out there. Unfortunately, I haven't updated it in almost 2 weeks since I have no time to do the tests. I studied trades and incomes for 9 hours last week but found nothing significant to add. I've managed to do farming and trade building tests though, but it was too little for an update.

I think the trade effects are mutually exclusive. Meaning, paved roads always double land trade, highway by 50% etc. regardless of the land trade income. Sea EXPORTS increases for every upgrade of trade building. Sea IMPORTS are always dependent on the the region that is exporting, so it won't be affected. I'll post additional numbers when I do the update.

The equation is 20% Sea Exports = Sea Import.
So if Province X export income is 100 denari,
then Province Y import income from Province X is 20 denari.
If Province X increases Sea Exports, for example to 120 denari
Province Y now will get 20% (120denari) = 24 denari.

I'll see if I can do some tests today.

(PS. to therother: the base trade values in the folder you mentioned to me are really icky. The numbers don't match at all ).

[andrewt]

The market line gives +1 to trade for the lowest and +5 for the highest level. Trade temples similarly add +1 to trade per level. The port line also adds +1 to trade per level in addition to increasing the number of trade fleets per level. The caravan line gives +2 from the first building and another +1 for each upgrade.

As to how much +1 to trade is, I don't know. I think it is most likely a percentage increase as opposed to farmland, in which +1 to farm income is a steady +80 denarii per turn on average harvest.

[therother]

(PS. to therother: the base trade values in the folder you mentioned to me are really icky. The numbers don't match at all ).

Well, okay, but what have you done, and why do you believe the numbers don't match? The numbers in there most certainly affect the value of trade routes: I've tested them, and others have changed them to make the game harder in certain mods.

PS I've started a thread to collate trade research here.

Edit: And if that isn't enough to get you to look at it, I've just answered the initial question you asked: "Can the trade forums increase SEA income?". For the answer to this question, and indeed how much it increases it, you'll have to click on the link!