Frustrated with lack of competition!

[Emperor[1G]]

Im seriously losing interest in the game, and not because of its horde of bugs and what not, those I can live with. Its the lack of any kind of competition! Night in and out, me and my clanmates host everything from 3v3's 2v2's even 3v2's against clans as well as general public. We're 11-0 versus clans, 11 different clans. Its gotten to the point no one will even play us.

After a month and a half of this game being released, you'd think there'd be improvement, but there isn't! Want an example?
Tonight in a 3v3 I went Spain, my allies were clanmates Desperado and Moooveziiig as Pontus and Brutii. Ok, so we had a Roman. Pontus and Spain especially are on the low end of the spectrum. Our opponents were Selecuid, Carthage and Sycthia. FOUR ARMORED ELEPHANTS DIVISIONS BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM NO LESS. Result? Clear victory, with our opponents scoring less kills combined then any of us singly. The Sythian had 54 kills.

We faced two clans tonight in 2v2 format, and beat both in under five minutes. We're not talking about Close Victories. I haven't lost a game since the first week the game was released!

I don't think its a matter that we are that good, I think its more a matter of people being THAT BAD. Am I just being arrogant? Is there something to this Im missing? Are the best players just not playing the game yet? I didn't play Shogun or Med online so I don;t know what to expect. I have well over 250 games played now online and I have MAYBE a dozen losses. I'm growing tired of this game quickly and I don't know how to rectify it.

Ive written a couple strat articles and a few instructional audio commentaries, and I figure maybe this will help some, but this won't fix the problem anytime soon. Bah I don't know anymore.

[Sp00n]

Yep most of the veterans arnt playing Rome online as its far inferior online to MTW and Shogun.

That and theres widespread cheating going on.

MizuSp00n

[CBR]

As I see it RTW has pretty much ruined the established MP community so most people playing online are new players. It will take some time before the new players/clans become skilled.


CBR

[Puzz3D]

I only played about 10 RTW MP battles about a month ago. That's all I needed to know I didn't want to spend my time playing RTW MP. I've experienced much better gameplay in the previous games. I've been working with CBR to bring the gameplay in barocca's STWmod for MTW/VI close to what it was in original STW, and it's quite close to that now. I'm converting all the original STW maps to MTW so that the STWmod can be used to play out the battles in the STW multiplayer campaign that Elmark is going to run. CBR is also improving his Community mod for MTW/VI, and both mods will be released as a package for online play in MTW/VI. If the RTW v1.2 patch fails to sufficiently improve multiplayer, I think a fair number of vets may start using these mods for MTW/VI, and we'll get a high level of challenge in those games if that happens.

[sweetzero]

As the other replies have stated very few of the MTW vets have gone over to RTW. Rather than just whining about the competition have you tried helping out some of the new players and giving them some training? I remember 18 months ago when I moved from sp to mp, one of my best friends now in the TW communty offered me some help and tips and spent some time showing me army selection and tactics. I've never forgotten the help he gave me and I do my best to help other new and inexperienced players in the TW games, although quite often my help is turned down.

The new clans do not understand the game and the subtleties of coordinated teamplay and until they do I'm afraid your games will not be very enriching.

[Cheetah]

Well said sweetzero!

[Redleg]

I have played three times so far online with RTW - I do not like the multi-player engine at all. And yep I would agree the average game play has been weak. Hell I went with really bad tactics and terrible armies and only got beat once.

But oh well give it some more time - or most likely now that I got my computer up to speed again - I might just start hosting in MTW.

[Rob The Bastard]

Well said sweetzero!

Everything except the bit about " whining "...

[Tomisama]

I've been working with CBR to bring the gameplay in barocca's STWmod for MTW/VI close to what it was in original STW, and it's quite close to that now.

Yuuki-san

All I ever wanted was 13th century Japan and honorable people to play with. Is there a discussion somewhere about the above project? I have been looking but can't seem to find anything.

[Emperor[1G]]

Yes, I really want to take the time to type to people who constantly cuss and whine about the game. I want to take the time out to help someone who ridiculous me for using onagers, or elephants, or fire arrows, or Egyptians. I really want to take the time to type in a room of 200 people, a good many which constantly spam simply to flood the channel.

Yes, all these wonderful people. I have given tips, know what I get for my trouble?
"stfu noob" "you suck" "you dont know crap" "whatever you got lucky"
I do refer people to our site where they can get articles and audio's that will help them in their game, far more then YOU do sir. Then again, what did I expect? This is a forum afterall, which means its bound to be populated by children who troll to start flame wars. Get over yourself Sweet, troll elsewhere, I have no time for kids like you.

[Colovion]

I wanted to play RTW online a lot more than I do now (not at all).

I'm waiting for the patch before I continue playing any form of RTW. The more I play it the more I'm annoyed with the problems.

[sweetzero]

I wasn't trying to start any sort of "flame" war with you Emperor. I was trying to point out the reasons why this game hasn't advanced yet. I shouldn't have put whining as Rob pointed out and for that I am sorry.

I am a member of RTK and one of our guidelines is to make the gaming experience enjoyable for all. If you are so unhappy with this game try to come up with someway of getting more players up to your level. If we just let the new players in TW drift along they will hardly improve.

STW and MTW were both great multipplayer games but against inexperienced players they too were tedious.

[Emperor[1G]]

yes yes, I know of RTK. We beat you 2v2 on Saturday night, all we got for it was flames about using fire arrows and artillery. I think you need to review your clan charter then, because what we were subjected too sure as hell wasn't "guidelines is to make the gaming experience enjoyable for all."

I will be the better man and simply ignore you. You bring nothing positive to the table, and this thread and the game 2 nights ago is proof enough for me your clan isn't mannered in the least.
Edit: RTKLeonidus was one of the names in the game I remember, can't remember the other RTK.

[Rob The Bastard]

Thanks for apologising, sweetzero.

Emperor[1G] your comments are as unwelcome as sweetzero's was.

Tone it down or this thread will be closed.

[Emperor[1G]]

Close the thread then, nothing good will come of it now. Its been hijacked.

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

You sure know how to make friends
That's part of making the game enjoyable for all...

What make you think that anyone would like to play against someone using such a tone?
Maybe that's why you don't meet any of the older and more experienced players.

I seldom see any those days. Neither on RTW, nor on MTW...

But I got enough trouble with my own troops to need any opposition I can lose on my own well enough, thanks!

Louis,

[Sp00n]

Ah now the picture is clear to me on how you win your games Emperor,
Artillery sucks m8 it was banned from most MTW games as there is no skill in just bombarding your oponent with artillery any crap player could win with it especially on Rome where it is even more overpowered.

In the few games I played on Rome I lost no games to artillery players as I just rush them, but the damage you take from art on rome is very high.

If they sort out Rome with the patch id advise you now to play without artillery as the vets wont use them and will ban them from thier games.
Elephants were also overpowered but are better after the patch, winning by using the imbalances in the game doesnt make you a good player.

Artillery has also been banned from any tourny in Total War that I can recall, so if they do tournys in the future its doubtful you,ll be able to use it.

Just an opinion

MizuSp00n

Yuuki I tryed out the beta of the Shogun MTW mod and it was pretty good way back then so ill be interested to play it when its ready.

[CBR]

Yuuki-san

All I ever wanted was 13th century Japan and honorable people to play with. Is there a discussion somewhere about the above project? I have been looking but can't seem to find anything.

AFAIK there is no thread about it. Barocca didnt finish his mod and Yuuki decided to correct some of the errors in latest version and balance it so it would be close to original STW (as Barocca wants it to be). We have talked about making another era for something close to MI but not sure.

I can start a thread about it and we can see what people wants.


CBR

[Voigtkampf]

Personally, I believe to hold a rather unique stand among the MP players.

Though I never played M:TW or S:TW online, I did play Rome, and was confronted at once with a multitude of “no art no elephants” game titles. I joined any that I could - with the “failed to connect to host” problem you aren’t very picky about your opponents and games, right? - and have always played by the rules. Ones I have double-clicked a game to join and joined another one instead; in this 2vs2 flat terrain game art wasn’t allowed, and people started basically yelling at me “NO ART NO ART”!!! Too beaucoup, ok, I get it, no problem; I took my one unit of catapults, deployed it at the end of the space and faced it to the edge of the map, so it wouldn’t ever get a chance to fire accidentally upon anyone.

I was stricken how repulsive people are towards the artillery a lot of times.

Funnily, last time I played I joined 1vs1 game saying “no art”. I didn’t take any art, of course, since I always respect the rules of the host; then the other guy rushes me with elephants, and I simply had to laugh out loud.

Other match I played was 2vs2; the two opposing armies were composed solely out of cavalry and they rushed me and my ally. We were wiped out in a matter of minutes.

Now to my stand; anything goes. Also, and this may sound pompous, but it is how I truly feel, I believe that people that overly complain on art and elephants are simply unable to find proper tactics against such weapons. I never complain that my opponent had an army composition that I didn’t expect; I see it as my own failure to respond to his tactics. Have an elephant only army, five pieces of art, whatever you want, your free choice. I must stress once more that I always respect the rules of the host.

Last time I was hard pressed from a Eggy chariot-archers army; I found no proper way to ward off their attacks with the army composition I had. However I see no reason why should I press people to play with those units I find more comfortable for me.

So, I don’t complain upon whatever my opponent chooses to play with, as long as he doesn’t cheat. Furthermore, if we ban art and elephants, the already unit-poor Rome will become even poorer than this. I can however understand that the clan wars are fought without artillery, much like there is only one sniper per squad limit in almost all CoD tournaments, but, once again, I never ban any unit from my games.

[Cheetah]

Emperor, I really dont want to hurt you but what is the point of this thread other the bragging about your victories against this and that clan? Sweetzero raised a valid point when he pointed out that if you want improved opposition then there is something you can do for it by helping out new players (even if it has a "low return", which we know because RTK has a training system to help new players). His wording was indeed unfortunate but he already apologized for it. If you have nothing constructive to add then it is indeed better to close this thread.

and, yes, before you second guess I am an RTK too, RTKs are everywhere

finally, just to answer your original questions:

Am I just being arrogant?

yes

Is there something to this Im missing?

definitely, yes

Are the best players just not playing the game yet?

so so, some playing some waiting

GL and HF

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

One issue with artillery was that you can target the ennemy general, get lucky, kill him, and the game is virtually over.
And there is not a single thing that the player facing artillery can do to avoid that.

So, with one lucky strike, you can give a -2 morale to all enemy unit before even starting the fight.

In MTW, that was thought to be unbalancing. Not so much because it was overpowered (I don't think artillery kills per itself would justify the cost or using a slot in MTW), but because of general sniping.

In RTW, artillery is better. There is still no way to counter an artillery unit targetting your general; either you are lucky, or you are not.

The one thing I don't know is either general death gives a permanent morale penalty or not.
If it does not, then please kill my general, for all I care. And then I won't mind artillery too much.

There is a counter to elephant rush. There is no counter to a boulder coming to your face before you can even move.

I don't play with Artillery. If you want to bring some, fine, please do it, but don't expect me to play the game with any regard to seriousness or fun; you'll get what you want; I'll rush.
Do we really want to play this game like that?

Louis,

[spacecadet]

Voightkamph, no one is stopping you playing with artillery and elephants with other likeminded people, but you cant deny that when someone hosts a game that says no art or elephants and then 1 person takes 1 fully boosted elephant and someone else takes 10 artillery pieces that its very very annoying. Like Louis says, unless you dont know what your doing, artillery means a rush game...

Most of the veterens have stopped playing Rome unless all those strange names are undercover, which i doubt....although it may have changed since i stopped playing (nearly a month now).

[Dionysus9]

First of all, if you are looking for competition-- look in MTW, not RTW.

Jack Russel and I were online in MTW last night, with only 15 other people on the server. The pickin's were slim so we started giving people a 10-20% advantage in florins (like 16k vs. 20k).... too bad you cant do that in RTW.

You cant do that in RTW because hte damn florins are fixed. grrr.

[Dionysus9]

The best you can do is start handicapping yourself by not spending all your florins, or giving the defenders a huge hill to defend.

[sweetzero]

Emperor you must be commended by the work that you have put in making the audio commentries and videos that you have produced.

Unfortunately the tactics that you are employing at the moment are not very sophisticated and not an ideal model to be showing novice players.

One video in particular where you are camped up a hill with 3 onagers, 3 units of war elephants. some spear units and a few cavalry units is probably the easiest way to win a game and not to offer yourself any sort of challenge.

I'm afraid you are not going to get much more from this game and you will be best served to move on to something like "Battle for Middle Earth" when it is released.

[Emperor[1G]]

sweetzero, you're ignorance knows no bounds. You have no idea the audios I do, and are basing your assumptions on ONE game. Perhaps you should download the one i did tonight, or the others posted? How about send a replay worth doing, or better yet, do it yourself? Try contributing before you start condemning. I'm afraid you're not going to get much from these audios or this game, and I think you'd be best off waiting for Imperial Glory when it is released.

Ah, so we're only good because of Onagers? Im impressed you can make that assumption without having ever played/seen me play. More ignorance. Our games are played in BOTH formats, and to limit the game with lame rules is ridiculous. Field artillery, i.e. catapults and balista, were used in real life warfare, and are included in the game for a reason. If you are going to place those kind of rules, then you are limiting the aspects of the game. All but handful of factions have the ability to use onagers, so its not like only ONE faction has that advantage.

Furthermore, any player with a modicum of common sense will deploy his general OUT OF RANGE of an onager, not to mention dispersing their armies. Watch a replay of mine if you want an example. Elephants, same deal. People are limiting the game, and blaming their losses on units instead of their inability to deal with those units. Carthage lacks shock troops, GOOD heavy cavalry and any kind of decent ranged unit. They require Elephants to be viable, and thats leaving history out of it. Did it ever occur to you it requires 200 deniarri for one pig unit to rout a 3000 denari elephant? Elephants are easy to counter.

I saw a game the other night that was "No art, No ele, No Egypt!" So I am to assume that anyone playing Egypt is also breaking rules and has no skill. Gotcha. Anyone who masses 10 art units is easy pickings even to the novice player. A poor excuse.

Cheetah, flame baiting is bad enough, but when you're the mod of the site thats even more reprehensible. Your very post embarrasses this site.

I don't worry myself or lose sleep over "making friends on the internet."
Apparently it is impossible to have a serious discussion even here, as people like Sweet and Cheetah are more interested in creating an environment of hostility and tension then in furthering the idea. Its not like you were FORCED to post in this thread. This entire post has been hijacked and twisted, the very point of which has been lost. The fact that a mod is able to threaten and run this like a gulag is as amazing to me as it is saddening. I had thought better of you.

[Rob The Bastard]

I am the sole moderator of the Rome and Medieval multiplayer forums of the Org.

No other moderator interferes with how the RTW MP 1,Barracks and The Jousting Fields are managed.

Decisions to close or leave topics are mine alone... should I close a thread that may allow members to reconcile?

I feel regret that, in this instance, I waited to long.