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Thread: MP help guide

  1. #1
    Rout Meister Member KyodaiSteeleye's Avatar
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    Default MP help guide

    I notice no one has put up a help guide for players doing MP yet. Maybe someone could make this a sticky?

    I have no advice to give - instead, i'm asking for it! - I am an experienced TWer, but i'm finding MP RTW very hard going - so advice please!

    How do better RTW MPers manouver their armies around the battlefield coherently?

    What tactics can you employ with the new unit types?

    I'm getting panned everytime at the mo', so some ideas would be appreciated - the MTW/STW principles don't seem to uphold anymore, or perhaps are very difficult to implement.
    KyodaiSpan, KyodaiSteeleye, PFJ_Span, Bohemund. Learn to recognise psychopaths

  2. #2
    PapaSmurf Senior Member Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe's Avatar
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    Default Re: MP help guide

    A few players wrote some guides for MP in MTW; I am one of them.

    My opinion on your idea is:

    In the current state of the game, with all the bugs and problems, either the patch will change a lot of things and you'll have to rewrite the guide after the patch, or it does not, and RTW MP is dead in 3 months. So why bother?

    A second point to consider; I think it takes a couple of hundred games to start to figure out how to play this game. Another couple to really figure out what beats what, and how to use each unit.

    It's too early... and things keep going the way they go, soon there won't be a MP game to write a guide about

    Louis,
    [FF] Louis St Simurgh / The Simurgh



  3. #3
    Senior Member Senior Member Cheetah's Avatar
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    Default Re: MP help guide

    please be a bit more optimistic Louis ...

    ... and start writing your MP guide !!!

    While I agree that it is too early to write about which units beat which, but I think the major problem for both vets and new players is how to move their armies, how to turn, how to make groups run, etc. I think a guide about these basic features would be nice.

    oh, and I will help
    Lional of Cornwall
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  4. #4
    PapaSmurf Senior Member Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe's Avatar
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    Default Re: MP help guide

    I sure hope a patch will change those "basic features" making a 1.1 MP guide obsolete!

    Once we'll get a working game, with adequate feature, then we'll see

    And I'll remember your help proposal

    Louis,
    [FF] Louis St Simurgh / The Simurgh



  5. #5
    Rout Meister Member KyodaiSteeleye's Avatar
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    Default Re: MP help guide

    Yes, i have to admit its the whole moving and manouvering thing that's really getting to me, - including moving my army so my units don't wander casually into decimating arrow storms etc..

    Any work arounds, people?
    KyodaiSpan, KyodaiSteeleye, PFJ_Span, Bohemund. Learn to recognise psychopaths

  6. #6

    Default Re: MP help guide

    The grouping of units is a big problem for those of us used to MTW.

    The small groups in a larger group are no longer possible to have assigned to hot keys.

    The method that I use which is the best I have managed to find so far is to lay out my full army as I want it. Then group this into one large group, this can then be left mouse clicked and dropped where I want it to go. If I drag it and I don't like the look of its position before leaving go of the left button I press right mouse button to cancel the move. If I am satisified where the highlighted area is I release the left button and they move in formation to that point.

    Making them move quickly to that point is tricky as the whole army will not run while in formation. To make them run as one army I press ctrl+i+r, this makes the infantry run, then ctrl+m+r, this makes the missile units run and finally ctrl+c+r, this makes the cavalry run. It sounds difficult and slow but it is the best way to guarantee that your army gets its skates on.

    Now with the army in one large group, number I,problems occur when splitting units off it. If you just split a couple of say infantry units off and make them into another group say II, when you move group I the infantry units will go back to their places in group I. To avoid this, and it isn't 100%, you need to ungroup the whole army, create group II and then put back the rest into group I. This is a ridiculous way of grouping units but it's the only way that stops units reverting back to previous groups.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Senior Member Dionysus9's Avatar
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    Default Re: MP help guide

    When I played RTW MP (notice the past tense) I used the method sweetzero describes-- grouping the entire army.

    Unfortunately, groups are so flawed in RTW that they have become less than useless (actually they are a hindrance).

    I agree with Louis. At this point the movement and grouping "functions" are so flawed there is no "guide" that can help. The problem is with the game itself.

    We simply have to wait until the patch.
    Hunter_Bachus

  8. #8

    Default Re: MP help guide

    I group my whole army as one and when I need to make a smaller group they need a new formation order (ie shift 1 single line) to break the link to the old big group formation.

    Kyodai, as for tactics it seems flanking is everything especially with cav.Also cav shouldnt be left in melee too long pull out and recharge as often as you can and units rout pretty quick.

    Missiles are far more effective firing at a flank (preferably the enemies right as this is unshielded) or rear.

    Hope this helps a little.

  9. #9
    Rout Meister Member KyodaiSteeleye's Avatar
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    Default Re: MP help guide

    thanks guys - i'll try the grouping suggestions. Is it my imagination, or are missile units (esp' archers) far more effective in RTW - eg: faster fire rates, higher kill rates and far more ammo? (except face on against phalanxes and cohorts).
    KyodaiSpan, KyodaiSteeleye, PFJ_Span, Bohemund. Learn to recognise psychopaths

  10. #10
    Senior Member Senior Member Cheetah's Avatar
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    Default Re: MP help guide

    No, it is not just your imagination and whenever possible you should have one of the advanced archer types, such as cretian archers, chosen archers, pharaohs bowmen, archer auxilia. Also, horse archers are better and need less micromanagement as in MTW. However, friendly fire is a lot more devastating, you should be very careful not leting your archers firing into a melee.
    Lional of Cornwall
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    "If you wish to weaken the enemy's sword, move first, fly in and cut!" - Ueshiba Morihei O-Sensei

  11. #11

    Default Re: MP help guide

    I find it very tedious to form/break/reform groups during a game. My solution was to break free of my MTW habit and stop trying to move my entire army at once while keeping it in formation. During setup I create roughly six groups, by purpose, and I avoid mixing unit types within the group. So one group is my spear wall, I have left and right infantry groups, left and right cav groups, an archer group, etc. Each group I usually give the single line formation order (shift +1) so that I can draw the group on the map in any thickness or orientation that I want.

    When I want to move my whole army from point A to point B, I just Ctrl + A to select all and then right click on point B. A press of the space bar will show that if you did nothing else, your army formation will be all jumbled once they got to point B. So while they are marching to the new location, I redraw the groups on the map in the exact place and orientation that I want them to be when they get there.

    There is a change from MTW to RTW for the better (IMO) in that unless you are setting waypoints, when you issue a movement order it automatically cancels the previous order. In MTW you needed to either wait for the previous order to complete, or you needed to manually cancel with a halt command (bringing your units to a stop), before you could change the order. So in MTW, when moving my whole army in formation, I frequently had to move/rotate several times until I got it in exactly the position and facing that I wanted it. In Rome, I just draw it on the map where I want it to be....if I don't like it or want to change it, I just redraw it.
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    Rout Meister Member KyodaiSteeleye's Avatar
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    Default Re: MP help guide

    Hi Agravain - yes, i've been doing something similar, in that i've been using 4 or 5 seperate groups for my missiles/main line, secondary line and cav wings, but to be honest its a real fag having to redraw them all to get them into some sort of ordered formation - although i will try a bit harder to redraw while they move.
    KyodaiSpan, KyodaiSteeleye, PFJ_Span, Bohemund. Learn to recognise psychopaths

  13. #13
    Travelling Knight Content Manager Nigel's Avatar
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    Default Re: MP help guide

    hmm, this is a useful thread.

    I am still struggling to control my formations, too.
    Will be interesting to see how other people deal with it.

  14. #14

    Default Re: MP help guide

    Quote Originally Posted by KyodaiSteeleye
    but to be honest its a real fag having to redraw them all to get them into some sort of ordered formation
    Agreed Kyodai. Would be a whole lot easier if you could just CTRL+A to select everything and then just draw it once on the map, while having everything retain their original groups, spacing, facing, etc. Both methods described in this thread have their advantages and drawbacks. Guess it comes down to individual comfort in the end.
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    Senior Member Senior Member Dionysus9's Avatar
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    Default Re: MP help guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Agravain of Orkney
    Agreed Kyodai. Would be a whole lot easier if you could just CTRL+A to select everything and then just draw it once on the map, while having everything retain their original groups, spacing, facing, etc. Both methods described in this thread have their advantages and drawbacks. Guess it comes down to individual comfort in the end.

    Thats why I use the single-group-army, because you CAN just select it all and draw it out on the map, and it retains formation, and you draw the facing you want. . . only works if its (G)rouped though, and only one single group will work at a time.

    As Dreadlahll says, they got rid of "groups within groups" which generally means that you either do it Agras way (many small groups, but no "full army formation"), or my way (one big group that retains formation, but no sub groups).

    If they had retained the old dual group system (numbered groups being distinct from "G"roups that are visually linked) we could combine both methods much more easily and regain some semblance of control over our armies.

    We tried to get at this in the Petition and I only hope they picked up on it.
    Hunter_Bachus

  16. #16

    Default Re: MP help guide

    I remember quotes from ca saying that in rome you would have to anticipate more in where you order your troops to move.

    One big group responds more precisely than drawing several groups maybe this is a reflection on their idea of chain of command(or lack of it in ancient times)

    Remember this is not vi.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Senior Member Cheetah's Avatar
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    Default Re: MP help guide

    I hope this is not to suggest that vikings had better chain of command than roman armies
    Lional of Cornwall
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  18. #18
    Rout Meister Member KyodaiSteeleye's Avatar
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    Default Re: MP help guide

    Indeed not - if we were ever dealing with realism, then in MTW we'd be allowed 3 'battles' (groups) tops, and once you'd given them some orders, that would be it

    Trouble is at the moment, I can hardly anticipate where my troops are going to end up at all (half the time they wonder off and do the their own thing :) )
    Last edited by KyodaiSteeleye; 11-10-2004 at 13:47.
    KyodaiSpan, KyodaiSteeleye, PFJ_Span, Bohemund. Learn to recognise psychopaths

  19. #19

    Default Re: MP help guide

    Lol point taken.

  20. #20

    Default Re: MP help guide

    Refering to what sweetzero mentioned about running command. I did it quite easily by doing the below
    - lets say all your units r in grp 1, u right click or drag them to the location u want them to march to, then ungroup them (while they are still walking), press r key, all ya troops will start running by now and then ctrl A n group them back. So all will be running by now even in group.

  21. #21
    Rout Meister Member KyodaiSteeleye's Avatar
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    Default Re: MP help guide

    ahah - sneaky!

    will try, but faffy all the same.
    KyodaiSpan, KyodaiSteeleye, PFJ_Span, Bohemund. Learn to recognise psychopaths

  22. #22
    Cynic Senior Member sapi's Avatar
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    Default Re: MP help guide

    Yep, ak sg, i do the same thing, but with cavalary seperate. The only problem is that the skirmishers run too damm fast!
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  23. #23

    Default Re: MP help guide

    Hi people!


    I just joined this forum for a silly question regarding multiplayer online...

    Do I need to register at GameSpy just to play multiplayer? I had already keyed in my cd keys and downloaded the latest v1.1 patch...but I couldn't get online...


    please help this dummy in his desperate attempt to play aganist a human oponent

  24. #24
    Rout Meister Member KyodaiSteeleye's Avatar
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    Default Re: MP help guide

    sorry, can't remember what i did to get online now - don't you have to register with gamespy when putting in your cd-keys etc?

    You need to be registered, as gamespy run the server.
    KyodaiSpan, KyodaiSteeleye, PFJ_Span, Bohemund. Learn to recognise psychopaths

  25. #25
    Member Member Kanamori's Avatar
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    Default Re: MP help guide

    I am pretty sure that the names are not account specific (this was one of the things in the petition?). Yeah, friendly fire issues make the fast armies harder . Control and the game in general just seems a lot more chaotic. How do you guys hold order w/ the battle?

  26. #26
    Member Member Oswald's Avatar
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    Default Re: MP help guide

    Well I just reinstalled Rome after HD died , no u dont need to join gamespy to get in MP; try these steps:

    1> Get CD key correctly: o(letter),0(number),- caps etc.
    2> Turn off firewall for a minute. (Once logged in I can turn it back on, wierd I know...)
    3> Hit multiplayer, sometimes it only works 2nd time.

    Hope this helps..
    Die Fast

  27. #27

    Default Re: MP help guide

    Question.
    How do i chat during an online game to my enemies and allies?

  28. #28

    Default Re: MP help guide

    Hi guys,

    I'm new to the forums, so nice to meet you all!

    Did you guys know that when you use alt+right click to move your units keep their original formation/facing? I noticed you guys implementing all these weird tricks while all I do is use alt+ right click to move Then press the space bar and you will see exactly where your army will move too. Hope this helps you guys!

    And as for the chatting, press 'T'- then a menu will pop-up who you want to chat too and if you want to type yourself ('custom') or if you want to use one of the automated messages. There must have been an easier way to chat to eachother but CA doesn't seem to like to have things the easy way

  29. #29

    Default Re: MP help guide

    hey i've played medieval totalwar alot and now i have rome totalwar.

    but being new to rome totalwar i don't know how to get to an online game.
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  30. #30
    Member Member romeo_longsword's Avatar
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    Default Re: MP help guide

    Hi there,

    I have been playing R: TW since the end of January, 2005. I am mainly interested in playing R:TW online and I think its a great idea to express a few tips and personal experience here, but to make a full guide, it would require some work I think, especially paper warfare is always lacking of something, due to many things are situational :)

    Although I donít think I have the time to produce a full guide, I like to share my personal experience as follow:

    Against Onagers and their cheesy fireballs

    It is a well known method that some players would pick a number of onagers and throw fireballs towards to your army, a successful hit could take out half of your troop of unit, and this usually make people feeling insecure and broken their formation or plan that they had in mind.

    Relax.

    It is true that it seems a big massive deal while watching half of your troop turned into black pieces of things, but from my personal experience, I have only lost one game that against with cheesy fireballs user, and that was the first time I ever seen them online (or in the game, as I started to play online before single player).

    As long as you donít stand there eating the shots, you should be fine, if you decide to attack, just relax and move towards to them, there will be a range where they can not attack you if close enough, try not to rush into them, as they usually have a defensive formation, such as placing a large pack of spearmen surrounding it.

    There was one time somebody taken a high advantage in placing about three of his onagers at the top of a very tall hill, in fact, itís a mountain, he typically had his spearmen surrounded the onagers and some horses were ready to charge me. By the time I got up there, 50% of my units have already been lost due to his fireballs, but I still managed to beat this player.

    The more onagers they have, the lesser money they had in spending on other units.

    Another effective method is to use your archers and their fire arrows to shoot at the ongers, it will set it on fire and disable its usage.


    Fighting against phalanx

    In my view, Phalanx is one of the most powerful feature/unit in the game, donít be fooled by the lower number in their attack and defence which shows while you studying the units, its long range could stop its oppositions getting in range to contact, not to mention against horses no matter what quality, it is extremely effective. Horses falls to phalanxís feet is expected, but they can even hold their ground to the Urban Cohort face to face.
    They can even take a lot of arrows in their faces, so shooting at them from the front, or, even sometimes in the back takes ages to really damage them. Their weakness itís of course the sides and the behind from melee or the good old charge from the horses.

    Cheesy phalanx box

    The phalanx box is an also another common formation for phalanx lovers. Basically, they will create a formation as follow

    Ppppppppppppppppp
    Ppp {space} pppp
    Ppp {space} pppp
    Ppp {space} pppp
    Ppppppppppppppppp

    With that, they would place whatever required protecting in the middle of this box, such as archers and ongers for example.

    Some might think itís a nightmare, but its actually really easy to break this box. I usually would surround this box, and using my archers or missile units to shoot at the backs of these units, until they are weaken, then, attack with whatever method you have in mind.

    Added: You can charge the phalanx's sides with your horses, usually this will bring a rout impact to them, since they are only about average in their morale. However, when you are fighting a phalanx box, you are usually only left with a very small gap, so I usually would not charge my horses into the box until it breaks.

    To charge into a very small gap in a better formation, the quick way to do it is drag the formation into a long and thin shape for each of your units (you are do it for more than one unit at one time by selecting all of them) then group them by pressing G, and press shift-8 (I think), this will make them line up into a very thin line.

    However, using cavs charging at a box its very risky unless you know its a now or never type of situation.

    There are also talk about how a horse unit can "jump the line", meaning that (I think) a few of your horses could get behind the phalanx formation, but since most of them will die or stopped at the front of it, from my experiments, I would not employ it. [end]

    Another version of the box I have saw once was that they made a phalanx box as the one above, but this one, it has no space in the middle at all, just a solid box of spikes sticking out in all of the four directions. But its can be broken with the same sort of method.

    Phalanx vs. horses

    It can be a hard game if all you have left are your horses and the oppositions are left with a large number of phalanxes. Under a reasonable condition, such as that you are not overly out numbered, you can defeat them.

    They can only target one of your unit at a time, most of all, you have speed, you can surround them in all directions and flank the targetís back and the sides. Of course this would be that you are better to target one unit at a time with enough number of units to post as a target and the flanker.

    I have two replays that show how I was able to defeat 3 players, 1(me) vs. 3 (them) with the condition that they almost had two full armies worth of spearman and horseman, against me who was having an army with 95% horses. The other one was saved just today. I was lucky enough to defeat almost two full armies (some random online players who was my team mate at the time managed to get beaten and lose all of his units at the start of the game), two players with also full armies with plenty of phalanx spearman as well.

    If anyone would like to see them, please message me, however I am going to Hong Kong tomorrow, so I will not be able to do that for you guys for three weeks.

    But of course I have got beaten many times in this sort of condition also.

    Elephants

    Against horses, elephants are very effective, they could make the horses run away even the horses are much larger in number.

    Whenever you see these elephant units, call up your archers and shoot fire arrows at them, even though they provide fear to their opponents, but they can get scared easily as well. So try to make them go amok and keep the horses away form them .

    Sometimes some players think they are very clever by combining their horses and elephants together and charge at you. This is a situational thing, but if you could shoot fire arrows at the elephants enough to make it go amok, it actually because a disadvantage for the horses that was accompany them.

    Grouping up

    I thought itís a great advantage to have your units grouped up in a certain formation and moving around the field in the desire shape.

    But when it comes to a mobile units/group, very oftern I find that after your command, some of the units would go to a completely irrelevant location, which on the battlefield is highly, ummÖ not good. The full detail I would not explain here, but when you are commanding a selected units without grouping, this problem does not exists, so I would advice people not to group up their units, since its easy enough without it anyhow.

    Donít talk/respond to the immature players

    Some players would mouth you down, taunt you and very oftern they world ask you to play in a certain way, such as, ďcom chage me yo9 chicken, n00b!Ē

    You could leave the game, or kick them out, but of course you want to pay respect to the game for your sportsmanship, so you continue to play, which is understandable.

    I used to be immature back to them! But from my experience, its totally waste of time, as they usually would develop the ďconversationĒ and spoil the game. I see this aspect of the game also a test of discipline, it is especially important on the battlefield!
    Last edited by romeo_longsword; 03-04-2005 at 12:11.
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