Ptolomaic Egypt.

[The_Emperor]

Now this faction has irritated the hell out of me in RTW. Egypt's portrayal as a King Tut army may be good if someone plans to do an ancient Egypt mod.

But given this is the EB Mod this faction will need some serious changes to be realistic.

According to Polybius, and other historical sources I have read, the native populace were not and could not be relied upon by the Ptolemaic rulers of Egypt for fear of them threatening the Minority rule of the Macedonian landowning class... This means their army would be very similar to the current Selucid lineup (probably why CA changed them to make them unique).

Infantry.
Now according to what I have read, The bulk of the army will be the Macedonian Phalanx. But the twist is that the majority of them wore Quilted Armour. (no doubt to give them increased flexibility and stamina in the desert heat)... So similar to the Nile Spearmen in armour appearance, just without the fancy old-style Egyptian look (and with a rounded shield style).

Interestingly I have also found a reference of "Imitation" Legionaires being used as Roman power began to grow in the area. I need to follow this up.

There are also references from Ceasar for mercenaries and brigands and ex-pirates from Cilicia and Syria being used.

Ranged units.
The army also included the traditional Peltasts, Cretan mercenaries, Egyptian or Syrian archers and slingers.

Cavalry and Support.
Cleruch Cavalry. They were equipped similarly to Macedonian companions, and the Cleruch cavalry were offered land for military service. These would be the Elite heavy cavalry of the Ptolomaic lineup.

There would also be light cavalry alonside as well. I have yet to discover the specific details of them.

Elephants.
Now historically the Selucids cut the supply line of Indian Elephants to the Ptolemies and they were forced to recruit the much smaller North African Elephants into their army. As such I feel the Selucids should have the larger "War Elephants" while the Egyptians get the smaller basic "Elephants" for their army.

Camels.
I have yet to find a reference that the Ptolemaic Army used Camels in battle. I still need to do some more searching on this.

[PROMETHEUS]

Camels.
I have yet to find a reference that the Ptolemaic Army used Camels in battle. I still need to do some more searching on this.

__________________






according to what I have read about the camels, they are original from the arabian peninsula , and where introduced by the roimans in the north africa , even if this form of warfare developed in north africa only in the end of the empire so the Egyptians definetly shouldn't have camels at my opinion.....

[Oleander Ardens]

Camels and Dromedars have been introduced already around 500BC in western Egypt, but it seems that they were used on full scale for military operations only after 400AD. I will try to find the reference to it...

In any way they have surly been used by patrols and for transports, sometimes also for combat, or as a meaning to come into combat - think dragones there..

My best bet is a undersized irregular unit;

Cheers
OA

[Urnamma]

The_Emperor: Most of the Ptolemaic units have been decided. Check out theFactions and Units: Info and Descriptions thread.

[eadingas]

I have another question.. have you decided about new provinces and their names for Ptolemaic? The original division is too arbitrary, IMO, it simply divides the area into three equal areas, without any regard to historic accuracy...not to mention they're English in a Latin world. Also, I don't think Thebes were that important in post-Alexandrian era, there were already other more important cities in southern Egypt...
Too bad that expanding map to the south is such a pain. If it's at all possible. Egypt could use that expansion the most.
(if you do expand south, don't forget Sheba and Axum, Egypt's southern neighbours!)

[Stormy]

I will love to see Nubia and Axum ( ethiopia ) added to this mod in the future. It will be hard work because we will need Family and general names. Units for these factions will be somewhat hard to find. Ptolemaic Civ is difficult I think and I will also like to see some unit in model or art detail for this civ. The only site with photos is DBAonline Hmmm, I have a question, did the Ptolemaic empire control Nubia and Axum ? I did read some articles and it never mentioned anything about Ptolemaic empire controlling these regions.

[sharrukin]

No. Ptolemaic Egypt was mostly concerned with the Hellenic world rather than their southern border. They were mostly on the defensive in the south.

[Urnamma]

The Ptolemaic Empire did control the relevant parts of Nubia. I really don't think Axum or Nubia should be factions though. They would eat up needed unit and faction space.. and there are more important factions that could be added (Media, for one) if/when the map is expanded. All IMHO of course.

[Ranika]

Perhaps relevant mercenaries or region specific units in Nubia and Axum, but there are other considerations to be made for larger factions. We when we get to adding factions, we should nominate, and then vote on how many, and which factions to add. We cannot add all that everyone would want, out of unit limitations though. A Nubian faction, for example, would need a unique army, with unique units, and that may be quite a bit of additions to make, about 12 units, at least?

[Stormy]

What is the faction and unit limit ?

Rome does have the most units in game. They should be the only faction with the most units. I agree with Ranika, most faction don't really need alot of units for it. Each faction with their skinned representative will be perfect, at least 10-12 each. I would love to venture into east africa along the nile.

[Ranika]

30 factions, and 300 units, I believe. Keep in mind mercenaries, that'll take a chunk out of the number of available units, as well as ships, etc.

[Stormy]

There is 20 factions in game now no ? Maybe we can free up some space by making Rome just one simple faction ? If of course if it is realistic to make Rome into one faction.

[Ranika]

The Romans all share units though, so that'd free no space for units, except for the removal of gladiator units.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

I have another question.. have you decided about new provinces and their names for Ptolemaic? The original division is too arbitrary, IMO, it simply divides the area into three equal areas, without any regard to historic accuracy...not to mention they're English in a Latin world. Also, I don't think Thebes were that important in post-Alexandrian era, there were already other more important cities in southern Egypt...
Too bad that expanding map to the south is such a pain. If it's at all possible. Egypt could use that expansion the most.
(if you do expand south, don't forget Sheba and Axum, Egypt's southern neighbours!)

Thebes shouldn't be capital in Ptolemaic times. IIRC, Alexandria was the capital and beacon of knowledge with the famous library.

As for the southern egyptian cities, we could extend the map further south. But, for that to happen, we'll have to see if the map can be extended without creating stability problems.

Even if we extend the map south, Sheba and Axum will not feature in the game. They were unimportant for the portraied factions and period.

[WhiteWolf]

From what I read your thoughts seem fairly historically accurate. I was severly disapointed how RTW realism portrayed the egyptians as and entirely greek nation, lol they were all white. It seems like you guys seem to be on the right track though good luck.