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Thread: STW mod

  1. #91
    Senior Member Senior Member Tomisama's Avatar
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    Default Re: STW mod

    Ok, lets give a full explanation a go

    If you are running the SoundSetupSTW program in the Medieval – Total War\Sounds folder, it will create a new folder called Sounds in that folder, and place a STW folder and MTW folder in it, with empty Orders, Troops, and Frontend folders in "each".

    *MD = Make Directory

    MD Sounds
    MD Sounds\STW
    MD Sounds\STW\Orders
    MD Sounds\STW\Troops
    MD Sounds\STW\Frontend

    MD Sounds\MTW
    MD Sounds\MTW\Orders
    MD Sounds\MTW\Troops
    MD Sounds\MTW\Frontend

    *Then it copies some of the original MTW files from the program, to the empty Sounds\MTW folder. First all of the Orders\Latin files, then all of the Frontend files.

    COPY ..\Sounds\Battle\Orders\Latin\*.* Sounds\MTW\Orders
    COPY ..\Sounds\Frontend\*.* Sounds\MTW\Frontend

    *Then the original Music folder files directly into the new Sounds folder (Mtw or MTW is the same to the DOS program).

    ECHO. This may take a few minutes, have patience please.
    COPY ..\Sounds\Music\"Euro Battle 1.wav" Sounds\Mtw
    COPY ..\Sounds\Music\"Euro Battle 2.wav" Sounds\Mtw
    COPY ..\Sounds\Music\"Euro Battle 3.wav" Sounds\Mtw
    COPY ..\Sounds\Music\"Euro Lose 1.wav" Sounds\Mtw
    COPY ..\Sounds\Music\"Euro Mobilize 1.wav" Sounds\Mtw
    COPY ..\Sounds\Music\"Euro Mobilize 2.wav" Sounds\Mtw
    COPY ..\Sounds\Music\"Euro Mobilize 3.wav" Sounds\Mtw
    COPY ..\Sounds\Music\"Euro Strat Summer 1.wav" Sounds\Mtw
    COPY ..\Sounds\Music\"Euro Strat Summer 2.wav" Sounds\Mtw
    COPY ..\Sounds\Music\"Euro Strat Winter 1.wav" Sounds\Mtw
    COPY ..\Sounds\Music\"Euro Strat Winter 2.wav" Sounds\Mtw
    COPY ..\Sounds\Music\"Euro Tension 1.wav" Sounds\Mtw
    COPY ..\Sounds\Music\"Euro Tension 2.wav" Sounds\Mtw
    COPY ..\Sounds\Music\"Euro Tension 3.wav" Sounds\Mtw
    COPY ..\Sounds\Music\"Euro Win 1.wav" Sounds\Mtw
    COPY ..\Sounds\Music\"Frontend.wav" Sounds\Mtw

    *And finally the original Battle\Troops\Horn files into the Troops folder.

    COPY ..\Sounds\Battle\Troops\"Horn_Euro_Alpine_Advance.wav" Sounds\MTW\Troops
    COPY ..\Sounds\Battle\Troops\"Horn_Euro_Alpine_Retreat.wav" Sounds\MTW\Troops

    *All of them now reconfigured to fit a format that the SoundSwapperSTW program expects to see.

    The “reconfiguration” is the key.

    In the Medieval – Total War\Sounds folder you will now have the original game program sound files in their original configuration. And you will have the original game program sound files in the “reconfiguration” order inside the “new” Sounds\MTW folder.

    When you copy the STW folder contents (guess you could do it whole, and answer “yes” to the copyover) that you made in the Shogun – Total War main directory, into the Medieval – Total War\Sounds\Sounds\STW folder, you will have a “reconfiguration” of the Shogun sounds.

    When you run SoundSwapperSTW and select either the Shogun or Medieval files to be transferred, they are read in their “reconfigured” state, and are sent to overwrite the original game program sound files in their “original” configuration.

    At any given time thereafter, you will always have “one” original configuration (either Shogun "or" Medieval) of sound files for the game program to use, and "two" sets of reconfigured files (Shogun "and" Medieval) that the swap program will use to reload your choice, when changing from one type of operation to the other.

    Last edited by Tomisama; 12-11-2004 at 15:45. Reason: Changed MTW to STW (now in red), and the last paragraph for clarity.
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  2. #92
    Clan 7BEAR7 Member Clips's Avatar
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    Default Re: STW mod

    btw about what i was saying about the mod being just an addition to projectile stats, excuse this comment i am thinking of the kenshin mod which works like this and ive got this now so no worries.
    Yours 7Bear7
    "Let your body and sword be one."

  3. #93

    Default Re: STW mod

    A set of 25 original STW maps is available for download now. They are retextured, but the contours are unchanged and the trees and objects are as close to the original maps as possible. Unzip them into the \battle\maps folder which is under your main MTW/VI game folder. These maps are all prefixed with STW_ so they will appear together in the hosting list.

    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

  4. #94
    ..fears no adversary Senior Member Jochi Khan's Avatar
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    Default Re: STW mod

    Maps downloaded and installed.
    Run a SP , everything ok.

    Now all I need to do is get the sounds working heh.
    Still can't gt the MTW folder to populate

    Jochi
    R.I.P Great Warrior Ja mata TosaInu


    sat at the..Nomad Alliance..campfire



    Do your best and do it according to your own inner standard
    --call it conscience--
    not just according to society's knowledge and judgement of your deeds.

  5. #95

    Default Re: STW mod

    This command: COPY ..\Sounds\Music\"Euro Battle 1.wav" Sounds\Mtw means the bat file has to be run from a folder just below the Sounds folder. The .. means to back up one folder and then the command goes down the Sounds\Music branch, gets EuroBattle 1.wav and copies it to Sounds\Mtw. Sounds\Mtw has no \ in front of it so it will be a folder under where you are running the SoundSetup.bat.

    Make sure your system can find choice.com. Put it in C:\WINDOWS\system32 folder.

    You may have to delete all those folders that SoundSetup created to get it to run again.
    Last edited by Puzz3D; 12-14-2004 at 00:16.

    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

  6. #96
    ..fears no adversary Senior Member Jochi Khan's Avatar
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    Default Re: STW mod

    Update to STWSounds install.............

    I have now manually copied the files that Tomi listed in his post above.
    I still cannot get the STWSound to work.

    Below is the information that I get when I run the the SoundSwapper.

    *************

    STW SoundSwapper....Choose stats A STW Music
    B MTW Music
    C STW Orders
    D MTW Orders

    A. The system cannot find the path specified
    0 file/s copied
    Repeated about 20 times STW Music


    B. Sounds\MTW\Euro Battles1.wav
    The system cannot find the path specified
    0 file/s copied
    Sounds\MTW\Frontend\DESELECT.wav
    The system cannot find the path specified
    0 file/s copied MTW Music

    C. The system cannot find the path specified
    0 file/s copied
    Repeated about 16 times Japanese Orders

    D. Sounds\MTW\Orders
    The system cannot find the path specified
    0 file/s copied MTW Latin Orders


    All the copied files appear to be in their right places.

    Thanks for the help Tomi, I printed the post to refer to when installing.


    Jochi
    R.I.P Great Warrior Ja mata TosaInu


    sat at the..Nomad Alliance..campfire



    Do your best and do it according to your own inner standard
    --call it conscience--
    not just according to society's knowledge and judgement of your deeds.

  7. #97
    ..fears no adversary Senior Member Jochi Khan's Avatar
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    Default Re: STW mod

    Just noticed your post Yuuki.
    Must have been typing mine when you posted.

    I'll double check that info....see if I got it right. Thanks.

    My Choice com is in the C:Windows\system.32

    Jochi
    Last edited by Jochi Khan; 12-14-2004 at 00:05.
    R.I.P Great Warrior Ja mata TosaInu


    sat at the..Nomad Alliance..campfire



    Do your best and do it according to your own inner standard
    --call it conscience--
    not just according to society's knowledge and judgement of your deeds.

  8. #98

    Default Re: STW mod

    Jochi,

    Apparently, the SoundSetup.bat and SoundSwapperSTW.bat can't find the files to copy them. Those bat files have to be in the right place relative to the files they are trying to copy. This is the folder structure you need under your main game folder:

    \Sounds


    \STWsetup
    \STWsetup\Sounds
    \STWsetup\Sounds\MTW
    \STWsetup\Sounds\MTW\Frontend
    \STWsetup\Sounds\MTW\Orders
    \STWsetup\Sounds\MTWTroops
    \STWsetup\Sounds\STW
    \STWsetup\Sounds\STW\Frontend
    \STWsetup\Sounds\STW\Orders
    \STWsetup\Sounds\STWTroops


    SoundSetupSTW.bat and SoundSwapperSTW.bat should be in the STWsetup folder. The Sounds folder and the STWsetup folder must be directly under the main game folder.
    Last edited by Puzz3D; 12-14-2004 at 00:43.

    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

  9. #99
    ..fears no adversary Senior Member Jochi Khan's Avatar
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    Default Re: STW mod

    Problem sorted...
    The extra ..Sounds file solved it.

    Now that I understand what the .. was for.

    I use a number of dots often to separate items that I want to emphasise.
    Didn't relate the .. as meaning something.

    Have successfully run and used the SoundSwapper in a quick battle.
    Wierd hearing STW sound when VI disc is loaded heh

    Thanks for your help Tomi and Yuuki.

    Jochi
    R.I.P Great Warrior Ja mata TosaInu


    sat at the..Nomad Alliance..campfire



    Do your best and do it according to your own inner standard
    --call it conscience--
    not just according to society's knowledge and judgement of your deeds.

  10. #100
    Senior Member Senior Member Tomisama's Avatar
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    Default Re: STW mod

    Jochi, you certainly have the tenacity to be a Samurai
    Last edited by Tomisama; 12-14-2004 at 05:03.
    HONOUR IS VICTORY - GO WITH HONOUR - KEEP THE CODE

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  11. #101

    Default Re: STW mod

    ~~~ Inclusion of Mongols ~~~


    I would still opt for some way of including a Medium cav unit ( STW/MI MHC? ) alongside a Heavy cav unit. The Japanese now have 5 cav units which is over the top IMO and the Naginata cav unit would appear to be too efficient. Though Naginatas were armoured units, the weapon itself is two handed and would be very unwieldy for use on horseback. I would have expected Naginata cav to be slow and that goes for melee too.
    To remove anti cav bonus for MHC would be wrong because it would simply hand a bigger advantage to the Japanese cav. If Yari cav can counter MHC why would I bother taking MHC? Especially since Yari cav is a lightweight unit
    I proposed 4 Mongol cav units when Mongols were first mentioned and I still think this should be the case. I would go with this.........

    Yuan Imperial Cav.....( Golden Horde HC )
    Mongol Heavy Cav.... ( STW/MI MHC altered stats )
    Yuan Imperial HA ..... ( Golden Horde HA )
    Mongol Horse Archers ( STW/MI MLC )

    I agree that this would take some refining but without these units the Japanese more than match the Mongols, unit for unit and some. Even with these units the Japanese still more than match them

    ......Orda

  12. #102

    Default Re: STW mod

    The hatamoto isn't a full cavalry unit, and isn't as effective as a full cavalry unit. The naginata cav is medium cav and is as slow as HC. I was proposing to drop the Japanese HC so the Japanese would be down to 3 cav units, and the MHC could fit in the spot vacated by the HC. If the HC is retained, the repationships could be something like:

    Yuan Imperial Cav.....( Golden Horde HC ) = Japanese Heavy cav = 600 koku
    Mongol Heavy Cav.... ( STW/MI MHC ) = Naginata cav + anti cav = 500 koku
    Yuan Imperial HA ..... ( Golden Horde HA ) = Yari cav - anti cav = 450 koku
    Mongol HA................. ( STW/MI MLC ) = Japanese HA = 400 koku

    If the Yuan Imperial cav is made better than the Japanese Heavy cav, it will have to be more expensive and might get priced out of the game.

    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

  13. #103
    ..fears no adversary Senior Member Jochi Khan's Avatar
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    Default Re: STW mod

    Thanks Tomi for the compliment

    Jochi
    R.I.P Great Warrior Ja mata TosaInu


    sat at the..Nomad Alliance..campfire



    Do your best and do it according to your own inner standard
    --call it conscience--
    not just according to society's knowledge and judgement of your deeds.

  14. #104

    Default Re: STW mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Sid_Quibley
    Any news on an alternative d/l site to 3dd.Perhaps you could post if its hosted elsewhere.
    I now have the alternate site for STWmod in my sig. BTW, Samurai Wars is a recreation of original STW v1.12 which is not the same as STW/MI v1.02 currently played by a small group of players using fakeserver. You do not have to buy guns in Samurai Wars to be successful as you do in STW/MI v1.02.

    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

  15. #105

    Default Re: STW mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Puzz3D
    The hatamoto isn't a full cavalry unit, and isn't as effective as a full cavalry unit. The naginata cav is medium cav and is as slow as HC. I was proposing to drop the Japanese HC so the Japanese would be down to 3 cav units, and the MHC could fit in the spot vacated by the HC. If the HC is retained, the repationships could be something like:

    Yuan Imperial Cav.....( Golden Horde HC ) = Japanese Heavy cav = 600 koku
    Mongol Heavy Cav.... ( STW/MI MHC ) = Naginata cav + anti cav = 500 koku
    Yuan Imperial HA ..... ( Golden Horde HA ) = Yari cav - anti cav = 450 koku
    Mongol HA................. ( STW/MI MLC ) = Japanese HA = 400 koku

    If the Yuan Imperial cav is made better than the Japanese Heavy cav, it will have to be more expensive and might get priced out of the game.
    I found Hattamoto to be quite capable in the campaigns I have already fought and they tended to turn up in the enemy armies en masse.

    All that clumsy Naginata armour should slow Naginata cav more so than Japanese HC and their kill rate should be greatly reduced, they should be more of a holding, defensive unit than a shock unit ( preferably it should be dropped completely since it never existed )

    I cannot see why Yuan Imperial cav has to be same strength as JHC or higher in cost. The Japanese have stronger infantry, a greater choice of units and a unique unit in Nodachi Samurai as the Korean units have no sword choice. Yuan Imperial cav could be similar to JHC plus anti cav bonus and same price. This would at least make up for the limited choice of infantry and would reflect history somewhat. You cannot expect the Japanese cav to be equal to the Mongol cav as well or they will cancel out every Mongol unit.

    I would not want to land in Japan with inferior infantry units only to find that my cav is not that good either

    ........Orda

  16. #106

    Default Re: STW mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Orda Khan
    I found Hattamoto to be quite capable in the campaigns I have already fought and they tended to turn up in the enemy armies en masse.

    All that clumsy Naginata armour should slow Naginata cav more so than Japanese HC and their kill rate should be greatly reduced, they should be more of a holding, defensive unit than a shock unit ( preferably it should be dropped completely since it never existed )

    I cannot see why Yuan Imperial cav has to be same strength as JHC or higher in cost. The Japanese have stronger infantry, a greater choice of units and a unique unit in Nodachi Samurai as the Korean units have no sword choice. Yuan Imperial cav could be similar to JHC plus anti cav bonus and same price. This would at least make up for the limited choice of infantry and would reflect history somewhat. You cannot expect the Japanese cav to be equal to the Mongol cav as well or they will cancel out every Mongol unit.

    I would not want to land in Japan with inferior infantry units only to find that my cav is not that good either

    ........Orda
    The hatamoto gets battlefield upgrades in single player, but not in multiplayer. It's in that class of small units with strong individuals such as kensai and ninja that get more upgrades than normal size units. These units are much less effective in multiplayer, and I have lowered their cost in multiplayer.

    Look at the stat on NC. They have less armor than NI or JHC. The JHC is a defensive unit., and the NC is an offensive unit. Creative Assembly made JHC a defensive unit. That's how is has to be in Samurai Wars otherwise it won't be a recreation of the original game. I've been advised not to make a separate era for hatamoto, kensai, ninja and naginata cav, and the Japanese teppo unit. Players can elect not to use those units to get the unit set of STW sans arquebusiers.

    For a Mongol era, any of the Japanese units could be dropped. The Mongol era of STW/MI was so screwed up, that I wouldn't try to duplicate it. I see no point in trying to duplicate that stat because putting effort into mastering such a flawed stat on the battlefield is a waste of time.

    You can't add combat power to a unit and not change it's cost because that will unbalance the multiplayer game. If the Korean infantry are weaker than their Japanese counterpart, they must be cheaper. If the Mongol cav are better than Japanese cav they must be more expensive.

    You could drop JHC and NC and hatamoto so that each faction has 2 cav units. Now the relationship could be MHC (600) beats YC (450), MLC (450) beats CA (400) and YC (450) beats MLC (450). The Japanese player has YS and YA to counter the MHC. If the Japanese player can beat the Korean infantry, he will probably be able to defend successfully against the Mongol cav, but he can never catch the Mongol cav because his YS and YA are too slow.

    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

  17. #107

    Default Re: STW mod

    [QUOTE=Puzz3D]

    Look at the stat on NC. They have less armor than NI or JHC. The JHC is a defensive unit., and the NC is an offensive unit.

    How can a unit wielding a naginata on horse back ever be considered an offensive unit? JHC may be a defensive unit, due mainly to its slow speed but if you look at the naginata as a weapon you will understand that it will never match a lance as an offensive cavalry weapon. CA got it badly wrong with this unit, why replicate it?


    For a Mongol era, any of the Japanese units could be dropped. The Mongol era of STW/MI was so screwed up, that I wouldn't try to duplicate it. I see no point in trying to duplicate that stat because putting effort into mastering such a flawed stat on the battlefield is a waste of time.

    That may be the case but if Mongols are to be included in this Mod there is no point in making them exactly the same as Japanese units. Mongol strength lies with their cavalry.

    You can't add combat power to a unit and not change it's cost because that will unbalance the multiplayer game. If the Korean infantry are weaker than their Japanese counterpart, they must be cheaper. If the Mongol cav are better than Japanese cav they must be more expensive.

    I don't understand this comment. Surely weaker infantry at same cost and better cavalry at same cost all adds up to both armies same cost. My point was in making the battle an interesting play off between a strong infantry weak cavalry nation versus a weak infantry strong cavalry nation

    .......Orda

  18. #108

    Default Re: STW mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Orda Khan
    How can a unit wielding a naginata on horse back ever be considered an offensive unit? JHC may be a defensive unit, due mainly to its slow speed but if you look at the naginata as a weapon you will understand that it will never match a lance as an offensive cavalry weapon. CA got it badly wrong with this unit, why replicate it?
    CA did get STW/MI badly wrong. Guns, ninja, kensai, naginata cav, Mongol heavy cav, Korean javelins, morale and probably other stuff I don't remember were all way off. I don't know why Barocca replicated the nag cav. The naginata a two handed weapon. If you watch the nag cav charge, it uses the naginata like it was a lance. I just imagine that it is a lance and not a naginata. There is a place in the gameplay for an offensive cav unit slower but more powerful than the yari cav. It was retained because is serves a purpose in the gameplay whereas making it a defensive unit is redundant since the game already has the defensive JHC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orda Khan
    That may be the case but if Mongols are to be included in this Mod there is no point in making them exactly the same as Japanese units. Mongol strength lies with their cavalry.
    They wouldn't be exactly the same as Japanese cav. The JHC is anti-cav and anti-inf. The MLC is better than JLC. The upgrade costs are intentionally overpriced so that weaker units cannot be upgraded to equal more expensive units for less cost. So it wouldn't be possible to upgrade a YC to the point it could beat a JHC unless it was more expensive than the JHC. The YC has 5 combat points, and the JHC has 8 combat points. You would need 2 valor upgrades to get the YC to 9 combat points. At 70% cost that would be 450*1.7*1.7 = 1300. I proposed the JHC at cost 600. With a single upgrade, the YC would be weaker than the JHC and still cost more: 450*1.7 = 765.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puzz3D
    You can't add combat power to a unit and not change it's cost because that will unbalance the multiplayer game. If the Korean infantry are weaker than their Japanese counterpart, they must be cheaper. If the Mongol cav are better than Japanese cav they must be more expensive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orda Khan
    I don't understand this comment. Surely weaker infantry at same cost and better cavalry at same cost all adds up to both armies same cost. My point was in making the battle an interesting play off between a strong infantry weak cavalry nation versus a weak infantry strong cavalry nation.
    What you propose would make Mongol cav the most cost efficient and the Korean inf the least cost efficient. Non-uniform cost efficiency would lead to unbalance because players would simply purchase the most cost efficient units. Limited money is the only constraint. Another problem is that you cannot add more combat points to JHC's 8 because they would then not loose to the YS which has 2 + 8 anti-cav points.

    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

  19. #109
    lurker Member JR-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: STW mod

    i am delighted this is still in development, but tell me, will these improvements enhance the singleplayer as well, or is it a MP only improvement?

    any eta?

    regards

    PeegeeTips

  20. #110

    Default Re: STW mod

    I believe the STWmod single player is improved by Samurai Wars. Samurai Wars includes two separate sets of STW units; one for SP and one for MP. Adjustments can be made to SP and MP independently. The cost structure is different between the two sets, and I've fixed the no-dachi run speed and a slight weakness in the nag cav. Samurai Wars also makes the guns stronger which will improve SP.

    STWmod is a beta, and barocca is interested in any feedback on the SP gameplay. He intends to make a new beta early next year, and I'll be making any necessary adjustments to Samurai Wars in a few weeks based on feedback as well. Try SP campaign and if something seems off it can be changed without affecting MP.

    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

  21. #111

    Default Re: STW mod

    Cost efficiency or not, I would not send MHC into a wall of Yari Samurai.
    So far all I have seen in any Mongol army is over priced and under strength units, there would not be much point in downloading this mod only to find more of the same

    .......Orda

  22. #112

    Default Re: STW mod

    Unbalanced Mongol units would degrade the gameplay in Samurai Wars. I wouldn't introduce them to the mod if they aren't balanced.

    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

  23. #113

    Default Re: STW mod

    Yuuki, what files do I need? Is it a case of installing the 3 files linked in ur signature?

  24. #114
    The Orgs Prophet of RATM Member IrishMike's Avatar
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    Default Re: STW mod

    I just wanted to congradulate you all on a wonder mod and effort to make this mod. I love it, as I never got the chance to play the original. The only thing I have to say about it, is that I found the muskets or teppos (I think that is how it is spelled) to be mabey a little to powerful. But again, thx for your effort. Its a great mod.
    When ignorance reigns life is lost.

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  25. #115

    Default Re: STW mod

    Quote Originally Posted by shogun888
    Yuuki, what files do I need? Is it a case of installing the 3 files linked in ur signature?
    Yes the three files in my signature. First install STWmod, and then install Samurai Wars. After that you must run STWmod.bat to swap projectile stats. The STWmaps are optional. There are readme files included with these downloads which explains how to install them. All of these downloads are compatible with MTW/Vi v2.01. You don't have to use a separate install of MTW/VI. One thing the mod also does is fix the missing corpses for a few of the unit types in MTW/VI.

    Quote Originally Posted by ColdKnight
    I just wanted to congradulate you all on a wonder mod and effort to make this mod. I love it, as I never got the chance to play the original. The only thing I have to say about it, is that I found the muskets or teppos (I think that is how it is spelled) to be maybe a little to powerful. But again, thx for your effort. Its a great mod.
    Thanks ColdKnight. Glad you like it. Barocca did an outstanding job on STWmod, and a few of us have tried to bring back the gameplay of original STW with Samurai Wars. I think it does recapture the feel of original STW remarkably well with a few things that represent improvements. Through no doing of mine, the heavy cav (HC) beats the warrior monks (WM). This is actually good for the gameplay because in original STW the WM had no counter unit, and the HC has 2 counter units in addition to being the most expensive unit. Although not present in the original game, the naginata cav serves a useful purpose in Samurai Wars and makes the cav actions more interesting. The battlefield upgrades are not pressent in MP, and this keeps units within their starting operational parameters throughout the battle. The valor upgrade is more expensive than the honor upgrade was in original STW. Targetted units receive a morale penalty from ranged weapons only if they take a casualty. I see the routing away from the threat as an improvement, although not all players see it that way.

    The teppo are a departure from original STW. The weaker teppo is equivalent to the strongest gun in original STW. The better teppo is 50% stronger. Since this is a significant departure from the original game, it has to be looked at carefully. I'm not sure if you are playing Samurai Wars SP campaign or MP, and I'd be interested in knowing that and anything more specific you might want to add. As it stands in MP right now, the teppo at least are going to need a small cost increase or all units will get a morale boost so MP can be played at 5k which would effectively make ranged units more expensive because you couldn't lower their valor relative to the other units. There are several disadvantages to the morale boost idea. At this point I don't know which is the better solution. SP campaign and MP unit cost and number of men in the unit can be adjusted independently while projectile effectiveness is common to both SP campaign and MP.

    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

  26. #116
    The Orgs Prophet of RATM Member IrishMike's Avatar
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    Default Re: STW mod

    It was Samurai wars. It just seemed that whenever the enemy got really close (the enemy as yari samurai) that around 10 yari samurai were killed with each volley. I would say they were around a inch and a half away on the screen. One thing I do love about the game is how, when the enemy is put in impossible situations or they are getting slaughtered, a mass rout occurs. 10x more realistic than the demi god heroics in MTW.
    When ignorance reigns life is lost.

    War is norm, Fight the War, Screw the norm!

  27. #117

    Default Re: STW mod

    Quote Originally Posted by ColdKnight
    It was Samurai wars. It just seemed that whenever the enemy got really close (the enemy as yari samurai) that around 10 yari samurai were killed with each volley.
    That's the way it's supposed to work. A point blank volley from 60 Japanese teppo can drop as many as 15 men, and the yari samurai's morale is not high enough to tolerate that. The yari samurai can successfully advance on a Japanese teppo that's in 3 rank formation because its losses will be distributed over several smaller volleys. However, a yari samurai is not fast enough to catch a teppo in skirmish mode. It's one of the least desireable units to use against a teppo.

    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


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  28. #118
    The Orgs Prophet of RATM Member IrishMike's Avatar
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    Default Re: STW mod

    Alright thanks for the info. Wasn't sure if that was accurate or not. I thought it might have been, just was checking. Once again great work guys.
    When ignorance reigns life is lost.

    War is norm, Fight the War, Screw the norm!

  29. #119

    Default Re: STW mod

    nice, very nice, excelent job guys :)

    in my opinion this mod is better then the damned TW ROME!


    eliteofmarcaurel and me have tested this mod on totomi and the gameplay is much the same gameplay like STW 1.12.

    but the musks (teppos) are too strong and the firepower too high. this firepower remember me to the "LASERGUN-MUSKS" in stw 1.02.

    it is possible to decrease this firepower?

    on the other side YARI-samurai have absolutly no chance versus nodachis (yaris should hold a little bit longer)
    and monks cant compensate during the face to face fight the powerfullcharge of this "new"killernodachis.

    moreover their are some bugs for "not english-VI versions" because its not possible to start the mod (a translation-error is the problem)

    for example:
    in the german version you have a ...Total War\Medieval - Total War\Loc\German file and a ...Total War\Medieval - Total War\Loc\English file.
    i have to overwrite the german files with the englishfiels then i can play STWmod (but in in english).

    it is also possible to creat german files? or how can i do this onself?



    RUHM UND EHRE
    IMP
    Last edited by ELITEofIMPERATOR; 12-28-2004 at 17:35.

  30. #120

    Default Re: STW mod

    Quote Originally Posted by ELITEofIMPERATOR
    nice, very nice, excelent job guys :)

    in my opinion this mod is better then the damned TW ROME!

    eliteofmarcaurel and me have tested this mod on totomi and the gameplay is much the same gameplay like STW 1.12.
    Thanks Imperator.

    Quote Originally Posted by ELITEofIMPERATOR
    but the musks (teppos) are too strong and the firepower too high. this firepower remember me to the "LASERGUN-MUSKS" in stw 1.02. It is possible to decrease this firepower?
    At what money level did you play? Most of our battle tests were done at 8500 florins and all units at least valor 1. The Portuguese teppo costing 100 at valor 0 is the same firepower as the musket costing 175 in STW v1.12 at honor 2. The musket in STW v1.12 was often used at honor 1 for 146 koku, and other units were upgraded such as yari samurai at honor 4 for 288 koku or even honor 5 at 345 koku. So, the relative cost of a musket compared to a typical yari samurai in STW v1.12 was between 42% and 50%. If you play Samurai Wars at 8500 and use valor 0 Portuguese teppo (100) and valor 1 yari samurai (340), the teppo only costs 29% of the YS. So, it's clearly underpriced. That's why it's necessary to play with all units at least valor 1 when playing at 8500 florins. The way I'll deal with this in the next update to Samurai Wars is probably to add +2 morale to all units and say to play at 5000 florins. Then no honor sell off making ranged units cheaper than they were designed to be is possible at least at 5000. The morale level would be what you had with honor 2 units in STW v1.12. An exact dupication of the gameplay in STW v1.12 is not possible with Samurai Wars. It can only be made close to it.

    The Japanese teppo costing 150 has 50% more firepower than the Portuguese teppo. This unit doesn't exist in STW v1.12. So Samurai Wars won't play like STW v1.12 when this unit is used or when kensai, ninja, hatamoto or naginata cavalry are used. The question is should an STW v1.12 era be created without these units?

    Right now a Japanese teppo will get 1.5 kills per 20 man volley on a yari samurai at max range. The muskets in STW/MI v1.02 have about 2x that firepower. We could take some firepower off the Japanese teppo by lowering the accuracy, and I'll do that if I keep hearing from players that they are too strong. However, if too much is taken away, it will become like a Portuguese teppo. In test battles, naginata cav, heavy cav, no-dachi and warrior monks have no trouble charging a Japanese teppo. I would hesitate to send expensive units like heavy cav and warrior monks at fullsize gun units because of the high cost of each man. It's better to weaken the gun unit first with your own ranged unit. If that's not possible, you still have the option to charge the gun. In online tests with 8 yari samurai vs 8 non-skirmishing Japanese teppo in 3 rank rotating fire, the yari samurai charged and won.

    Quote Originally Posted by ELITEofIMPERATOR
    on the other side YARI-samurai have absolutly no chance versus nodachis (yaris should hold a little bit longer)
    and monks cant compensate during the face to face fight the powerfullcharge of this "new"killernodachis.
    The no-dachi stats are the same as in STW v1.12 as are all the units. I think the no-dachi beating the yari samurai a little faster is due the lack of upgrading on the units during army purchase. I didn't think this was bad because the yari samurai is an anti-cav unit and shouldn't really be a unit to hold the line against shock infantry. The shock infantry, no-dachi and monks, are hurt badly by archers, and defeated by cavalry. The no-dachi is priced at 250 right now. It cost 300 in STW v1.12, but our battle tests of Samurai Wars showed that no-dachi at 300 were not being used at all. If you compare the combat stats of no-dachi 8/5/-2/1/8 and monks 4/5/2/1/8 (charge/attack/defend/armor/morale), you see 3 melee points + 4 more charge for no-dachi, and 7 melee points for monks. The 4 more charge is worth about 1 melee point, so the no-dachi could be considered worth about 4/7 of a 500 koku monk = 286 koku. It's priced at 250 in Samurai wars. Pricing it at 275 won't help because there is no way to use the saved 25 per unit until you buy 4 because no other units are priced on 25 or 75 intervals.

    I don't actually see yari samurai collapsing all that fast to a no-dachi if the YS is in hold formation. The no-dachi only has a 1 combat point (20%) advantage over the YS, and the charge kills are about 5. I did run tests in STW v1.12 and Samurai Wars on no-dachi vs yari samurai, and the test came out the same in length of time to win.


    Quote Originally Posted by ELITEofIMPERATOR
    moreover their are some bugs for "not english-VI versions" because its not possible to start the mod (a translation-error is the problem)

    for example:
    in the german version you have a ...Total War\Medieval - Total War\Loc\German file and a ...Total War\Medieval - Total War\Loc\English file.
    i have to overwrite the german files with the englishfiels then i can play STWmod (but in in english).

    it is also possible to creat german files? or how can i do this onself?
    I'll have to run this by barocca because it's an STWmod issue. All I did was develop the unit stats, and I don't think that should work with all languages.
    Last edited by Puzz3D; 12-29-2004 at 02:19.

    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

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