STW mod

[Puzz3D]

It was Samurai wars. It just seemed that whenever the enemy got really close (the enemy as yari samurai) that around 10 yari samurai were killed with each volley.

That's the way it's supposed to work. A point blank volley from 60 Japanese teppo can drop as many as 15 men, and the yari samurai's morale is not high enough to tolerate that. The yari samurai can successfully advance on a Japanese teppo that's in 3 rank formation because its losses will be distributed over several smaller volleys. However, a yari samurai is not fast enough to catch a teppo in skirmish mode. It's one of the least desireable units to use against a teppo.

[IrishMike]

Alright thanks for the info. Wasn't sure if that was accurate or not. I thought it might have been, just was checking. Once again great work guys.

[ELITEofIMPERATOR]

nice, very nice, excelent job guys :)

in my opinion this mod is better then the damned TW ROME!


eliteofmarcaurel and me have tested this mod on totomi and the gameplay is much the same gameplay like STW 1.12.

but the musks (teppos) are too strong and the firepower too high. this firepower remember me to the "LASERGUN-MUSKS" in stw 1.02.

it is possible to decrease this firepower?

on the other side YARI-samurai have absolutly no chance versus nodachis (yaris should hold a little bit longer)
and monks cant compensate during the face to face fight the powerfullcharge of this "new"killernodachis.

moreover their are some bugs for "not english-VI versions" because its not possible to start the mod (a translation-error is the problem)

for example:
in the german version you have a ...Total War\Medieval - Total War\Loc\German file and a ...Total War\Medieval - Total War\Loc\English file.
i have to overwrite the german files with the englishfiels then i can play STWmod (but in in english).

it is also possible to creat german files? or how can i do this onself?



RUHM UND EHRE
IMP

[Puzz3D]

nice, very nice, excelent job guys :)

in my opinion this mod is better then the damned TW ROME!

eliteofmarcaurel and me have tested this mod on totomi and the gameplay is much the same gameplay like STW 1.12.

Thanks Imperator.

but the musks (teppos) are too strong and the firepower too high. this firepower remember me to the "LASERGUN-MUSKS" in stw 1.02. It is possible to decrease this firepower?

At what money level did you play? Most of our battle tests were done at 8500 florins and all units at least valor 1. The Portuguese teppo costing 100 at valor 0 is the same firepower as the musket costing 175 in STW v1.12 at honor 2. The musket in STW v1.12 was often used at honor 1 for 146 koku, and other units were upgraded such as yari samurai at honor 4 for 288 koku or even honor 5 at 345 koku. So, the relative cost of a musket compared to a typical yari samurai in STW v1.12 was between 42% and 50%. If you play Samurai Wars at 8500 and use valor 0 Portuguese teppo (100) and valor 1 yari samurai (340), the teppo only costs 29% of the YS. So, it's clearly underpriced. That's why it's necessary to play with all units at least valor 1 when playing at 8500 florins. The way I'll deal with this in the next update to Samurai Wars is probably to add +2 morale to all units and say to play at 5000 florins. Then no honor sell off making ranged units cheaper than they were designed to be is possible at least at 5000. The morale level would be what you had with honor 2 units in STW v1.12. An exact dupication of the gameplay in STW v1.12 is not possible with Samurai Wars. It can only be made close to it.

The Japanese teppo costing 150 has 50% more firepower than the Portuguese teppo. This unit doesn't exist in STW v1.12. So Samurai Wars won't play like STW v1.12 when this unit is used or when kensai, ninja, hatamoto or naginata cavalry are used. The question is should an STW v1.12 era be created without these units?

Right now a Japanese teppo will get 1.5 kills per 20 man volley on a yari samurai at max range. The muskets in STW/MI v1.02 have about 2x that firepower. We could take some firepower off the Japanese teppo by lowering the accuracy, and I'll do that if I keep hearing from players that they are too strong. However, if too much is taken away, it will become like a Portuguese teppo. In test battles, naginata cav, heavy cav, no-dachi and warrior monks have no trouble charging a Japanese teppo. I would hesitate to send expensive units like heavy cav and warrior monks at fullsize gun units because of the high cost of each man. It's better to weaken the gun unit first with your own ranged unit. If that's not possible, you still have the option to charge the gun. In online tests with 8 yari samurai vs 8 non-skirmishing Japanese teppo in 3 rank rotating fire, the yari samurai charged and won.

on the other side YARI-samurai have absolutly no chance versus nodachis (yaris should hold a little bit longer)
and monks cant compensate during the face to face fight the powerfullcharge of this "new"killernodachis.

The no-dachi stats are the same as in STW v1.12 as are all the units. I think the no-dachi beating the yari samurai a little faster is due the lack of upgrading on the units during army purchase. I didn't think this was bad because the yari samurai is an anti-cav unit and shouldn't really be a unit to hold the line against shock infantry. The shock infantry, no-dachi and monks, are hurt badly by archers, and defeated by cavalry. The no-dachi is priced at 250 right now. It cost 300 in STW v1.12, but our battle tests of Samurai Wars showed that no-dachi at 300 were not being used at all. If you compare the combat stats of no-dachi 8/5/-2/1/8 and monks 4/5/2/1/8 (charge/attack/defend/armor/morale), you see 3 melee points + 4 more charge for no-dachi, and 7 melee points for monks. The 4 more charge is worth about 1 melee point, so the no-dachi could be considered worth about 4/7 of a 500 koku monk = 286 koku. It's priced at 250 in Samurai wars. Pricing it at 275 won't help because there is no way to use the saved 25 per unit until you buy 4 because no other units are priced on 25 or 75 intervals.

I don't actually see yari samurai collapsing all that fast to a no-dachi if the YS is in hold formation. The no-dachi only has a 1 combat point (20%) advantage over the YS, and the charge kills are about 5. I did run tests in STW v1.12 and Samurai Wars on no-dachi vs yari samurai, and the test came out the same in length of time to win.

moreover their are some bugs for "not english-VI versions" because its not possible to start the mod (a translation-error is the problem)

for example:
in the german version you have a ...Total War\Medieval - Total War\Loc\German file and a ...Total War\Medieval - Total War\Loc\English file.
i have to overwrite the german files with the englishfiels then i can play STWmod (but in in english).

it is also possible to creat german files? or how can i do this onself?

I'll have to run this by barocca because it's an STWmod issue. All I did was develop the unit stats, and I don't think that should work with all languages.

[Orda Khan]

Well I tried it but have to admit I am not convinced. Something is very wrong when 7 monks and 17 yari cav can route 43 naginata, 15 yari samurai and 17 nodachi. Two minutes later the same units and another 17 monks are routed by 19 monks!!!

........Orda

[Puzz3D]

Orda,

If you are playing in SP custom battle, all bets are off because of the battlefield upgrades. Near the end of a battle, the unit characteristics can be very different from what they were when the battle started. Samurai Wars beta 5 is set up for valor 1 units at 8500 money which reduces the battlefield upgrades somewhat, but Samurai Wars beta 6 has +2 morale and 2x cost to all units so it plays at valor 0 at 10,000 money and this will increase the battlefield upgrade effect.

Even in MP which has no battlefield upgrades, the situation you describe can happen. I would expect the 7 monks and 17 yari cav to beat the 43 naginata, 15 yari samurai and 17 no-dachi. If the yari cav hit the no-dachi, they will rout them and the monks will rout the yari samurai. The naginata will then probably rout due to negative morale effects of seeing 2 friendly units rout and being flanked.

I would not expect 19 monks to beat 17 monks, 7 monks and 15 yari cav, but it could happen especially if the larger force was more fatigued. Even with equal fatigue the 17 monks would have to engage first, and then a flanking attack from the 15 yari cav before the 17 monks loose. Engaging in any other sequence will probably cause the larger force to loose because the 7 monks or the 15 yari cav wil loose to the 19 monks, and once again negative morale effects will impact the 17 monk unit. Also, the 19 monks will get a moral boost as soon as they rout a unit, and with small units whoever looses the first man or two is going to get a big negative morale effect because its magnitude is based on the percentage of casualties in a combat round.

Another possibility is for the 19 monks to go straight for the 17 monks. It's more risky, but it can work. If the 17 monks rout quickly which could happen due to statistical uncertainty in the individual combats, that would probably win it for the 19 monks. They would get a morale boost, and the 7 monks and 15 yari cav would get a morale penalty and possibly rout right away, and neither of those units is strong enough to beat the 19 monk unit anyway.

The morale level of Samurai Wars seems high enough to me based on watching MP replays. If you want higher morale you can play with more money, and buy equal valor for all the units.

[Orda Khan]

Correction........

15 monks and 18 yari cav were engaged by 22 yari samurai, 21 nodachi and 44 naginata.
The numbers quoted above were as I saw them when the rout began.

It was MP at 10,000 koku on beta 6.

The 15 monks were hit frontally by the yari samurai and nodachi at the same time, the nodachi being faster than the yari's. The 18 yari cav then engaged but were simultaneously hit by 44 naginata. After some two to three seconds of h2h they routed ( after losing just one man ) the nodachi and yari samurai followed suit.
That cannot be right.
The monks should have done far less against the odds which were more than 2-1. Even the arrival of 18 cav should have made little or no difference since they were hit immediately by 44 naginata.

My 19 monks, later simply charged headlong into the three units described as I assumed all was lost

.....Orda

[Vinsitor]

nice, very nice, excelent job guys :)

in my opinion this mod is better then the damned TW ROME!

RUHM UND EHRE
IMP

IMP!!! Glad to see you again M8!

Our old forum was moved, the new one is un my sign (there is also the old alliance section).
Many of us are inactive with Rome and waiting for the patch, but we'll be glad to meet you on the STW-mod's battlefield, just like in the past ally!!!

RUHM UND EHRE ELITES!!!