Possible Britain Map

[Ranika]

Oh, and back on the thread's topic, sort of... What is the map decided upon so far? Not just for Britain, but the whole map? Any pictures? Will the next build be including the new British provinces?

[Dead Moroz]

Will the next build be including the new British provinces?

It depends on when next build will be released.

I'm still working on new expanded map. I have some serious problems I cannot solve now. So the only thing I can promise is that all changes will be made within vanilla map.
There are rumors that patch 1.2 will be out soon. I think we shouldn't make our build 0.3 before this patch. Let's wait and see how much it change the game. So I hope our next build will be in post-patch era and I'll try to make all necessary changes for this version.

[eadingas]

Do you still have problems with mountains?
I really suggest you cut down on height difference. Check the Alps and Babylonia: it's the whole area that's elevated, not only mountain areas. And go easy on white - I think white pixels are what causes spikes... The difference in height between base level and mountain tops should not be more than in Alps region, it's just the base ground level that should be higher.
We don't need to have the map 100% geographically accurate - the mountains in the east don't need to be twice as high as the Alps, it's enough if they're just high...

[Dead Moroz]

Certainly, the problem is in "mountains" ground types. I tested different ways of depicting mountains in map_heights and map_roughness tga's, I even recreated the whole area in Campaign Map Editor by MrHide, and these spikes are still remains. Only when I change "mountains" ground type to something else everything looks ok in battle. But this way mountains disappears from strategy map.

[eadingas]

But on the 'old' part of map there is no problem with mountains, is there? So it must be combination of mountain ground type and something wrong you're doing... my vote goes for height difference. What you see as spikey formations on the horizon, are splotches of white seen from the dark area where the battle is... and if you zoom on the old map, I think the greatest spikes appear where there are brightest pixels (255, 255, 255) on the height map... at least it seems so to me...
How about cheating out of it by copy&paste parts of the old map to the new areas? Copy parts of Alps and Caucasus and arrange them in various ways?

[Dead Moroz]

How about cheating out of it by copy&paste parts of the old map to the new areas? Copy parts of Alps and Caucasus and arrange them in various ways?

Just did it - in vain... Even big copied parts of old map doesn't work in new regions.

[eadingas]

Weirder and weirder... then maybe it's the 'desert' texture on mountains that's the other factor... hmm, I can't test anything right now, I got some weird bugs with adding buildings to work out, but I'll have to see this for myself later :)

[Ranika]

I don't quite follow. Will the next build, on the vanilla map, include the British provinces here that would show up then? That is, everything but Caledonia, I think? Unless, of course, the problem is solved by the time the build is ready, but I'll be patient curious though, would like to see Britain divided up in the next build, at least as much as we can for now.

[Ranika]

Redone list, just a few touch ups, added most descriptions, names done from Old Welsh/Cornish, and some early early Manx, and added, for this map thread, regions for recruitment;

Briton Units All wear neck torcs except Tribal Militia The Britons are organized so as to have light and light-to-medium type units, mostly, but their true 'heavy' units are very good quality, but extremely expensive. However, they should have relatively low costs for their other units, at least for maintanence, as they individually cared for their weapons and armor, and were not paid great deals of treasure unless they were champions of some kind. Their lower, cheaper units should not be as overall good quality as other units, possibly lower morale unless otherwise noted, but their expense should make them able to be trained in good numbers.
Peasants
Tribal Militia (same unit as Gaul, already being made for Gaul)

Infantry
Brycalawre Heavy Infantry, all of Britain Longsword or spear, possibly a javelin as well, large, decorated oval shield, bronze 'horned' helmet, bronze cuirass or chain armor, tartan cloaks, possibly mustache or goattee, plaid or checkered pants, long shirt Very good morale, raises morale of nearby units, very good attack, good armor, very hardy, very high cost, high maintanence and train times -

Descriptions => The British tribes best warriors are not so much trained, as they are proven. Young men are trained to fight, but the older warriors grow through real experience in battle. The Brycalawre (Great Champions) are near fearless, and even more hungry for glory than younger men. They have already felt the rewards of victory, and have many heads to their credit. Their original training has been augmented by years of warfare, often leaving their bodies heavily scarred. The Brycalawre are wealthy, powerful men, but they were not necessarily born as such. When a young warrior begins to attract prestige to himself, often by having a mound of heads to his name, he also begins attracting favors and gifts from his chief. These favors, like armor, weapons, jewelry, and slaves, allow him to be outfitted in superior equipment to lesser men, as well as having beautiful ornate equipment, such as elaborate bronze 'horned' helmets, giving them a near mythic appearance on the field. Any who survived a battle with Brycalawre present, would surely never forget them.

Historically, Brycalawre would have been individual warriors from tribes that grew to prominence through having numerous victories and kills to their credit. While individually desiring glory, the Brycalawre would organize into groups, possibly to appear more fearsome (since a group of horned warriors is more frightening than an isolated one). Their elaborate, ornate clothing, weapons, and armor would help encouraged the other men, and surely appeared fearsome to their enemies. Their presence would also encourage their fellows, as they were built up in stories about them as being nearly indestructible, and their own fearlessness would serve as a good example.

Calwr Chlaiddyfwir (with axeman for officer) Elite Heavy Infantry, all of Britain except Caledonia Large two-handed sword, chain armor, ornate iron helmet, loose checked pants, a mustache, goattee, or beard, with identical 'officer' using a large axe instead Very good morale, raises morale of nearby units, very good attack, good armor, hardy, attack good versus armor, very high cost, high maintanence, very high train times -

Descriptions => Calwr Chlaiddyfwir (Glorious Giant Blade Men) are champions in the same vein as Brycalawre, but they employ very specialized weapons, and tend to be even more advanced. Their weapons, giant axes or swords, with especially heavy heads made to crush armor, require years of practice to master. Able to afford such weapons, they can also afford high quality armor; chainmaille shirts and iron helmets. Like Brycalawre, they are marched to battle to inspire their fellow tribesmen, but their special weapons also give them a tactical purpose; annihilate enemy armor. Their great swings split helmets, smash shields, and collapse breast plate. The heads they collect will surely be from grotesquely mangled bodies, obliterated by the force of their blows.

Historically, Calwr Chlaiddyfwir were rare but fearsome champions, generally open only to the most wealthy of tribes who could afford to import the chain, axes, or swords, often made in Gaul or Hibernia. However, the greatswords were made specially with more weight in the final portion of the blade to ensure it would have the ability to crack into armor. They were likely introduced originally as a method of killing other champions, or enemy chieftans, who would be well armored. However, their weapons possibly could be employed akin to the Hibernian equivalents, as wide swinging weapons intended to cut down multiple, lighter armored targets as once, but such wide swings would be awkward due to the weight of the furthest portion of the weapon.

Clyddailauddynion Medium Infantry, Trinovantes, Dumnones Gallic-style longsword, oval shield, lyed spiked hair, woaded skin, mustache, short sleeve shirt, tartan trews Good attack and shield defense, very poor armor, slightly good morale, slightly high expense, medium maintanence -

Descriptions => The Clyddailauddynion (Swordsmen) of the southern Britons are generally the greater or wealthier warriors of a tribe. Swords are not plentiful, due to the expense and iron needed for a longsword, and highly valued. The sword is a light, fast weapon, and good for raiding warfare, which largely comprises the Britons concepts of combat. However, they are capable of being involved in larger engagements, and their tenacity and will to fight makes them formidable. With their hair dyed and spiked with lye, and elaborately painted designs decorating the whole of their bodies, they present a fearsome visage. They believe their designs offer them special protection against their enemies, and despite a lack of evidence to this, such beliefs grant them a very real surplus of bravery. Ever willing to prove themselves the greatest of their tribes' warriors, they are prone to madly dashing their enemies, to be the first to claim heads.

Historically speaking, the Clyddailauddynion of the Britons would've been slightly older warriors by comparison to lesser warbands, but still mostly young men. While wealthy or experienced enough to own swords, they were still too poor to afford much in the way of armor. Their swords were, though, good quality longswords, akin or even identical to northern Gallic and Belgae swords. The Britons had strong beliefs in magic and rituals, and that special designs would provide them with special defense against arrows or swords. While the protection actually provided was erroneous, it did do much to boost their spirits, along with the promises of glory and riches, and a poorly armored, motivated warrior, is still greater than a well armored, apathetic warrior.

Eginynauddynion Light-to-Medium Infantry, Ordovices, Coritani, Brigantes Iron short sword, small round or square shield, woaded skin, long brown hair, goattee, long sleeve shirt with a thin leather 'vest', loose earth tone tartan pants Good attack, poor shield and armor, poor morale, low expense and maintenance -

Descriptions => Eginynauddynion (Blademen) hail from the middle lands of Britain. All of them paint their bodies in blue, with the same belief as their more southern brethern, that the designs provide them with special protections against the weapons of their enemies. However, unlike southern Clyddailauddynion, they do not spike and lye their hair, their swords are shorter, in the manner of Halstatt style weapons, and they use smaller shields, but this also reduces their expense to their warlord. Their swords use less iron, their shields less wood, making them all around easier to maintain, but the addition of a light leather vest gives them a little more protection than some other early swords. The Eginynauddynion lay somewhere between being light and medium infantry. They are still young, but they have by this point experienced some combat, and are hungry for more. Their chiefs must be mindful of the impetuous nature of youthful warriors, and realize that they will be a bit difficult to control, but if given the chance to prove themselves, they can become truly great warriors.

The Eginynauddynion of the midland regions used shorter swords than the southern Clyddailauddynion, maintaining much influence from the Halstatt period, but they were not untouched by La Tene influences, which largely shaped the art they would decorate themselves with. Their tribal loyalties encourage them to fierce behavior, and their religion and myths fill them with desires for glory. For them, death was only a small event, a passing moment, but glory in battle, if from slaying an enemy or dying bravely like a true warrior of his people, would echo into eternity.

Ffonaflauddynion (possibly in the midland style? This description is for midland-type slingers) Light-to-Medium Ranged Infantry, Ordovices, Coritani, Brigantes Leather sling, short bronze dagger in melee, short sleeved earth tones shirt and pants, long brown hair, possibly a small round or square shield, goattee Good ranged attack, long range, very poor morale, defense, and attack, very low expense and maintanence -

Descriptions => Ffonaflauddynion (Slingmen) are among the youngest of the warriors of the Britons. However, they're quite skilled with their slings, which are truly a deceptively simple weapon. A sling bullet, when slung by a skilled man, will bury itself inside of its target, or break bones. Either way, the one hit is incapacitated or dead. Impressive for what amounts to a leather strip and a rock. The sling is also inexpensive, and with an impressive range. This allows Ffonaflauddynion to be both effective and affordable. However, when the distance between them and the enemy is closed, their low expense is quickly made up for in the ease of their breaking and fleeing, as, armed with only short knives, they are not intended to fight hand-to-hand. They are painted like other Britons, with complex designs, and like other midland warriors, they wear their hair to their shoulders, and wear a thin goattee.

The Ffonaflauddynion would have been inexperienced young warriors, still learning the trade of warfare. Few older men continued to use the sling, it would generally be replaced by a spear. However, it never fell out of favor with younger men, who could use it for war, games, and hunting. However, their youthfulness, and lack of experience with the grimmer face of combat, makes them prone to run, because, after all, a man fifty meters away with a sword looks a lot different two meters away, especially when your only defense is a small bronze knife better suited to cutting soft foods than fighting. Making matters worse for them, their youth and inexperience means they probably aren't as hardy as elder warriors, with more experience fighting in long engagements.

Fionn Gaelladha (Shared with Gauls, possibly Iberians, Breahain as officer) Elite Heavy Infantry/Skirmishers, Errain and Cuinnacht Javelins and iron longsword, with a large, round wooden shield, chainmaille shirt with leather belt, long braided red hair, no facial hair, powdered nearly white and woaded skin, tartan shoulder cloak fastened at the right shoulder, long shirt under chainshirt that goes to the knee, no pants, leather shoes Very good attack, armor, shield, good ranged attack, very hardy, very high morale, frighten foot, very high expense, maintenance, and train time -

Descriptions => The Fionn Gaelladha (Free Gaels) are the greatest trained champions of Hibernia. They fight to defend their lands from non-Celtic invaders, and combat outsiders willingly for their patron. They, like all Gaelic youth, are endoctrinated with a sense of xenophobia, but only of non-Celtic races, and strongly differentiate between brethern peoples, and non-Celts. They are told their freedoms are threatened always by outsiders, and encouraged to fight. The truly zealous abandon tribal ties, and join into a single group of warriors, the Fionn Gaelladha. They have no other purpose in their lives but to fight, and if necessary, die for their people. This provides a sense of utter fearlessness, believing, if they fail, their lands will fall into bondage under a foreign enemy. They wore extremely well made chain shirts, and used a combination of long range javelins and iron longswords, and thick, round wood shields.

The Fionn Gaelladha are the forebears to the better known 'Fianna'. The Fianna called themselves 'the Sons of Fionn', often thought of as a mythical man, but Fionn represents the original Fionn Gaelladha. This was not an uncommon form of Gaelic poeticism, where organizations, nations, and tribes, become a single warrior or hero, who represents the aspects of that people. The Fionn Gaelladha left their tribes, but not in shame relegated for Firdors (Outcasts). They were often showered with gifts by their tuath (family), and they worked closely with the Breahains, religious philosopher-warriors of the Gaels. Their organization was gifted by many kings in Hibernia, with horses, weapons, armor, jewelery, and foreign slaves.

Laoch (Shared with Gauls, possibly Iberians, Milidha officer, possibly have phalanx, but I think not, to allow them to use warcry, and their 'phalanx' would've been fairly disoriented. Is it possible to use regular spears and then swords, or does it need to work like a phalanx unit? Maybe change the name to just 'Laoch') Light-to-Medium Infantry, Errain and Cuinnacht Mid-length spears and iron mid-length/longswords, tartan shoulder cloak fastened at the right shoulder, long shirt that goes to the knee, no pants, leather shoes Good attack, good shield, fairly good morale, very poor armor, slightly high expense, low maintanence (due to self sufficiency) -

Descriptions => The Laoch (Warriors) are the backbone of the early Gaelic warrior society. They are well trained, fairly organized, and willing to fight for their patrons always. Using fair-length spears, shields, and an iron longsword, the Laoch are able melee combatants, prepared to engage cavalry and other infantry at need. They are reflective of Gaelic warrior society itself. They are organized, but individuals, they are fierce and dangerous melee fighters, with skills on par with heavier infantry, but still swift and mobile. Their scaith (shield) is well taken care of, it is never taken to a fight in disrepair if there is time to fix it. Their weapons are sacred, and a warrior's respect for his weapons shows his respect for his tribe, because it is the weapons in his hands that will defend his people, and he cannot properly defend them if his weapons are rusted, dented, or broken.

The Gaelic Laoch were the basic line infantry of the Gaels, well into the early Dark Ages. They were of varied origins, as the Gaels themselves were not a single group of Celts, but intermingled blood of numerous Celts. They were outfitted well, and trained regularly. Each man was taught to be self sufficient, with skills like cooking, hunting, and fishing. Each Laoch was intended to be an individual warrior on the field, able to fight on his own if he was needed to. Mock duels were often a game for young Gaels, to improve their skill with their spears and swords, and with their scaith, the shield they would use to deflect enemy blows.

Maliwyr Charde Light Infantry/Skirmishers, Dumnones, Trinovantes Long wood spear, with javelins, oval shield, short sleeve shirt, tartan or checkered pants with vibrant colors, hair spiked and lyed, woaded skin, mustache Good shield, fairly poor morale, low cost, low maintanence -

Descriptions => Maliwyr Charde (Soldiers of the South) are the file warriors of the southern tribes. Their hair is lyed and spiked, and skin painted blue, giving them a truly fearsome appearance. The Maliwyr Charde all utilize well-made spears, and a few decent javelins, making them both fair melee warriors and impromptu skirmishers. Their versatility, and low relative expense, mean they are a fine warrior band for enterprising warlords looking to expand their lands. They have some experience with combat, but are not yet hardened to battle. While unarmored, they have large oval shields like the Gauls, which provides them a good amount of protection.

Maliwyr Charde in Britain would have been the young to middle-age warriors, who had not risen greatly in prestige, or who had chosen to continue to fight as a lower warrior, in the southern most tribes. They would use well-made, but not truly exceptional spears, and javelins for skirmishing. This allowed their most basic warriors to perform two duties, and allocate other soldiers to more specialized positions. Their equipment would be self maintained, and they would be expected to keep their weapons and shield in good condition. They likely paid for their own equipment, but spears and javelins are relatively cheap, the most expensive part of their equipment was likely the shield. This would keep their expense low, making them highly viable for warchiefs who couldn't afford to bring in many swords or other weapons for his tribe.

Rhyfelwyr (Caledonian warriors with Caledonian swordsman for officer) Medium Infantry/Skirmishers, Caledonia Spears, fur-lined shirts, square shields, javelins or possibly slings for ranged attacking, spiral tattoos on exposed skin, full beards, earth tone colors for shirt and pants Good attack, high morale, very hardy, hide in tall grass, high cost, low maintanence -

Descriptions => The Caledonians are a fierce people on the edge of the world. Beyond Caledonia stretches a great, empty ocean, and Caledonia itself is home to a rather isolated people. They are seemingly relics of a former era of Celtic history, they do not have great deals of iron, and so do not produce many swords. They instead fight with more practical weapons, spears, javelins, and slings. Rhyfelwyr (Warriors) are a vast number of men, of many ages and varying levels of experience. Seemingly fearless, and wild, their bodies are tattooed in esoteric spiral designs, their hair is spiked and red, and they are remarkably fearsome. They are very hardy and brave; their lifestyle demands it.

The Caledonians were never conquered by the Romans, despite Romans successfully defeating them in numerous engagements. The small amount of iron available to them left swords only for the most wealthy or greatest of champions. Even bronze armor was a luxury. The Caledonians did not have cavalry or chariots, they only had their own fierce nature as their greatest weapon.

Chariots
Breniylnysa Drwmcerbydau General's Unit Heavy chariot with many bronze fixtures and hubs, drawn by two horses, with a heavily armored driver (armored the same as the rider), wearing tartan pants, and a rider with a chain shirt, with helmet, checkered pants, javelins, oval shield, and an iron longsword, and general dressed similarly, but with a horse hair plume to his helmet, and longer chain hauberk -

Descriptions => British chiefs ride upon heavy, elaborate chariots, with much in the way of bronze decoration, and the chariot crews, as well as the chief himself, are armed and armored heavily, with complex chain shirts, weighty javelins, swords, and shields. Their guards are selected from the greatest of all the tribe's champions, and the greatest chariot drivers. The Breniylnysa Drwmcerbydau (Chieftan's Heavy Chariots) are constructed of the finest materials, and are drawn by the strongest, best trained horses, often imported from Gaul.

The Breniyln, the kings or nobles, often rode upon heavy, elaborate chariots, with specially selected crews. They would ride before their army before battle, giving uplifting speeches, and encouraging their men. Britons led by example. When the battle began, the Breniyln's own chariots would go forth and fight among their own men, throwing javelins, and leaping from the chariots to fight on foot. A chief was expected to be fierce and fearless, inspiring his men by way of personally slaying the tribe's enemies. Cowardly leaders were often abandonned in favor of more charismatic and brave warriors, so a leader must himself be charismatic and brave. Promises of treasure, land, and glory would spurn on his men, but he must also believe those promises, and fight for them.

La Tene Cerbydau (Probably shared with Gauls, 'rebel' version would be the less bronze midlands variety possibly?) Light Chariots, Dumnones, Trinovantes, Ordovices, Coritani, Brigantes Light chariot with bronze fixtures and hubs, drawn by two horses, with a shirtless driver, skin woaded, wearing tartan pants, with spiked and lyed hair, and a rider with a bronze cuirass, with bronze helmet, checkered pants, javelins, oval shield, and an iron sword -

Drwmcerbydau Heavy Chariots, Dumnones, Trinovantes, Ordovices, Coritani, Brigantes Heavy chariot with many bronze fixtures and hubs, drawn by two horses, with an armored driver (armored the same as the rider), wearing tartan pants, and a rider with a bronze cuirass, with bronze helmet, checkered pants, javelins, oval shield, and sword -

[monkian]

Very nice

[Ranika]

This whole list is going to get a big revision, probably, chariots redone, infantry reworked, may ditch and rewrite some stuff. But it's nearer to done. I want to ditch Fionn Gaelladha, the historic evidence is poor, at best, with some transcribed oral tradition, replace them maybe with Belgae of some kind.

[PROMETHEUS]

chariots redone, infantry reworked

The Chariots shouldn't have the swords on the weel right?but how this will be modded in the unit stats , even if I take them out of the model , will the units around the chariot still be hitted by an immaginary sword on the weels?

Also Do we have room for all those units? I saw a lot and even good units for Cartage , Gauls , Britons , Greeks but none for the others yet especially the new factions that will be added this will lead to unit space shortage???

We need to plan all the units to do befoure I continue to mod new ones and then discover that some will be discarder for lack of space for them.....

[Ranika]

British chariots don't have blades on the wheel in the vanilla, if I recall, but if they do, of course, they need to be dropped.

I'm thinking of Fionn Gaelladha getting a Belgae unit in place of it, something that can sap, since the Britons themselves lack any sappers. Besides that, I was told we have space for 12 unique units for each faction, so yes, we should. Tribal Militia are from the Gaul list, and shared, so the Britons would have 13 units total.

There are no new factions right now, we don't know when or if we'll be able to do them, so that shouldn't be a huge concern. As I was told though, 12 uniques IS taking into mind potential new factions in the future, so we should be fine.

The 'new' Briton unit list is in the private unit list thread, though I've not yet written in a good replacement unit for Fionns, give me time to think of one.

[eadingas]

No, there are definitely two types of chariots in vanilla, scythed and non-scythed. Besides, I don't really think the scythes have any impact in the game... the scythed chariots are as crap in killing routes as the ordinary ones

[Ranika]

The midland chariots should have a rather wide wood axle though, that would protrude out of the sides a bit far, because they lacked hubs and needed a way to keep the wheels from sliding off.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

The Chariots shouldn't have the swords on the weel right?but how this will be modded in the unit stats , even if I take them out of the model , will the units around the chariot still be hitted by an immaginary sword on the weels?

No problem with that. I can modify that easily.

Also Do we have room for all those units? I saw a lot and even good units for Cartage , Gauls , Britons , Greeks but none for the others yet especially the new factions that will be added this will lead to unit space shortage???

Not if all factions have 12 units max. And since some will be shared, I see no problem.

We need to plan all the units to do befoure I continue to mod new ones and then discover that some will be discarder for lack of space for them.....

I will post a list of completed units today. I will also mention the most urgent ones needing work.

[PROMETHEUS]

Good!!! ... Polishing my hands looking forward.....