What Makes a Faction Die?

**Sin Qua Non** · 11-09-2004, 00:28

It seems it is not completely clear what causes can result in the death of a faction, so I decided to start this thread to see what has been learned about this. The most obvious cause of faction elimination is when all faction leaders are dead. What's interesting is when the faction dies, leaving several (now rebel) family members in the wake. What criteria have to be met before a faction is eliminated?

I've heard that sacking the faction capital can sometimes cause the faction to collapse, but since it doesn't happen 100% of the time, there must be another criterion at work.

The AI seems to usually choose their faction heirs along the same branch in the family. If this branch is snuffed out, will that cause a faction collapse?

I've also noticed that the AI like to group their faction leader with the heir, especially when they are losing badly. In the cases where people claim to have taken out the whole faction with the capital, might they have killed both leader and heir? If both die in the same turn, might that cause a collapse?

If anyone has any more insight on this, please share your wisdom.

**Legerdemain** · 11-09-2004, 00:39

As far as I've seen, a faction is destroyed either when all of their family members are destroyed (i.e., they can't return like in MTW), or when all their cities are gone.

**Nestor** · 11-09-2004, 00:44

1. If their last province is conquered the faction dies. I think that any family members running arround become rebels. Ships also become rebel fleets. Diplomats disappear so they cannot buy anything back.

1. If all of the family members are dead the faction dies.

If the capital is not their last city the faction will die only if you kill all their family members when attacking this specific capital.

**Quillan** · 11-09-2004, 00:56

It falls back under the "lost all their cities" heading, but I have seen a faction have it's remaining province(s) revolt, and be destroyed. It usually only happens when a faction is down to one or perhaps two cities left. One or all happen to revolt in the same turn, and that's it for them.

**Sin Qua Non** · 11-09-2004, 01:40

Well, here's an anecdote to make things a bit more nebulous....

As Spain, I own all of mainland Europe. Fighting Britannia, who own just Britain, I land a force to siege Londinium. Before I lay siege, however, I notice that the AI has put the faction leader and his heir on a ship. I promptly sink that ship (iI have a big navy stationed there. Both leader and heir die, and the faction falls. No more members, I think. When I siege Londinium and Deva, the rebels have two ex-briton family members in Londinium and Deva! Odd, eh?

**Quillan** · 11-09-2004, 03:30

Makes you wonder if there's a little glitch in the game there. It probably happened because both the leader and the heir died at the same time, so the game hadn't assigned a new heir to inherit, and treated is as the entire family being wiped. Nobody to inherit the title.

**Oaty** · 11-09-2004, 05:58

I've heard of reemergences but do'nt know if it's a myth or not. My guess is if you've taken all there cities and family members are still around. Then when a city they use to own revolts and they are in the same province they reemerge, but sin qua non disproves that theory but maybe it takes a few turns to reemerge. Basically they have to hold on to the territory a few turns and boom there back.

Nothing like running into Numidian family members 20 years after the fact but they were still rebel and I kiled them when I discovered there hiding spot

**Sin Qua Non** · 11-09-2004, 06:17

Quillian: That's exactly what I was thinking, but I'm not sure if it's a glitch or a feature. Probably a glitch.

oaty: I've also only heard rumors, but never have seen a re-emergence. In the Britannia scenario above, I conquered all of Britain in about 3 turns, but at the time I wasn't concerned about respawning factions, so I might have done it too fast. In my current game I just finished off Pontus, and let their last 2 contiguous provinces rebel. Now I'm letting them be and guarding their borders to make sure no other faction interferes. They did have surviving family members. I'll let you know if Pontus re-emerges.

**Locklear** · 11-09-2004, 06:21

One more confusing story:

Once I had my faction leader die of natural causes, after the faction heir had died in battle on an enemy turn. I promptly lost the game.

I tried once to destroy a faction through assassination, but no matter how many people I killed the AI came up with more.

**Bob the Insane** · 11-09-2004, 14:23

In the Julii game I am playing (just about to start the civil war...) I think I killed off the Britons by killing their last family member in a battle...

Because after the battle I got the Faction is Dead message and all the remaining Briton settlements on the British Isles themselves, where I only had a diplomat and some spies but no troops, changed to rebels...